As far as confused myopia is concerned, it is like pouring water on a duck’s back trying to impress a prejudiced mindset that it is not laudable vulture conservation, but violative utilization of their Charity Trust monies by the BPP alone for funding this venture and a proposed ill-conceived aviary at the Bombay Doongerwadi grounds that is being objected to, in the absence of known collective contribution by other Parsee Panchayets equally affected by vulture extinction in upholding Dokhmenashini in their respective towns/cities. Dying scavenger vultures is a universal predicament for ecological imbalance, not a religious ritual quandary effecting Parsees only.

as far as my wanting the community to revert back…i dont what the justification fr such is…if you mean by following zoroastrian principles you feel you are being made to revert back in time…well whats the argument about then…who has forced you to follow zoroastrian principles? and does your need to stop something you feel takes you backward even though u have the freedom not to induge in it arise from your thirst to stop it?..

as far as forcing my views on others…cmon it was you who thought vulture conservation is not going to suceed, not modern etc etc…and when shown the roof of its sucess, you guys now start jumping from excuse toexcuse brandishing others ..You gus blackmail that the project shoudl not e used from the funds for its continuation but elsewhere..nd then shout as if others view points are thrust upon you..
as far as migrating to itran since i want t follow zoroastrianism ..shows how flexible you are in thrusting your view points across and the level of freedom you give for zoroasrans to folow zoroastrianism…infact it wouldnt be prudent to go ther as the islamic regime is quite strict…and here with out fotrfathes giving al, we have the liks of you , who wuld cotribute towars ending zoroastrian systems from within…

mickey as far as seing posts are concerned..i have copied with sites address posts which show sucesfull vulture breeding programes and contraray t statements made here that vuture breeding is not right….
so ofcourse you can make allegatios about reckless statements and such..and lastly find solace in such to stop dokhmenishini after exhausting al other avenues to do so..
i guess it needs courage to stand by statements and when proved otherwise with quotations and examples..to be mature enough to take it in nstead of crying foul

Thanks for your note. Parsi Khabar and its editors as a rule do not interfere in a discussion or moderate/delete comments unless they are crude, crass and/or personal attacks on people in the news or other fellow commenters.

Rest assured that we delete comments even before they show up for these various reasons.

We will in the future try to be as just as we can. At the same time we know that commenters here are saying what they are in the heat of the arguement and hold no personal grudges. I hope that I am never proven wrong on this last point.

PARSI-KHABAR should ensure that a post is issue specific. All views should be mutually and respectfully accommodated on the discussion board. For a complete stranger who hasn’t the faintest idea about the person he is hypercritical against, to indulge in condemnatory/reckless personal allegations against other specific commenter/s to include misplaced speculative contentions of “their WANTS/THIRST/MAINTENANCE NEED” leaves a bad taste. Such posts need to be strictly monitored/moderated.

Only breeding vultures in captivity can prevent the bird of prey from extinction in South Asia, conservationists are warning.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3708078.stm

……………….
09-01-2007
http://www.birdlife.org/news/news/2007/01/vulture_hatches.html

The single chick, a White-rumped Vulture Gyps bengalensis, was hatched at a breeding centre in Pinjore, Haryana, as part of a breeding programme undertaken by BNHS (BirdLife in India) and the RSPB (BirdLife in the UK). Scientists had not expected the birds to breed successfully in captivity until at least 2008.
…………………….
it takes a will to do anything…
people who claim that vulture conservation is going to take time and hence no use…only once again portray their selfishness..their want to use the money elsewhere, their want and thirst does not make them realise that sucess in this project would enable zoroastrian system to be carried on to coming generations…their thirst stops and starts with them, their time frame and their need…

Lets see what experts say contradictory to these heres the quote from vulture experts..
‘Dr Vibhu Prakash Prakash says that considering the catastrophic decline and the availability of diclofenac in the markets, a captive breeding program appears to be the only way to save the species. ”

In California, the condor, a giant bird with an eight-foot wingspan, had diminished to just 23 birds in the wild before a captive breeding program was got underway. Today, about 200 pairs have been reintroduced into the wild.!!!’ (Piroz and mickey for your sake i would assume u understand the increase from 23 to 200 birds due to captive breeding programes..though u vehemently oppose it}

just for information here are institutes that aid vulture conservation n breeding programes..

Darwin Initiative for the Survival of Species
The Rufford Foundation
British High Commission, Global Opportunities Fund
Royal Society for the Protection of Birds
Zoological Society of London
Bombay Natural History Society
National Birds of Prey Trust
State Government of Haryana
India The Earth Matters Foundation
The Body Shop Foundation
Synermed Corporation
Department of Forest and Wildlife, Government of India
University of Pretoria, South Africa
De Wildt Cheetah and Wildlife Trust, South Africa
Rare and Endangered Species Trust, Namibia
BirdLife International in Indochina
World Wide Fund For Nature, Cambodia Programme
Wildlife Conservation Society, Cambodia Programme

“By bringing some vultures into captivity, their lives can be saved and once they start breeding, they would augment the population”..Dr Vibhu Prakash..
…………………….

Heres sone articles that may dishearten anti dokhmenishini group since u oppose such for their ‘WANT’ to use the fund for charity only!!

Chick success for Asian vultures

Conservationists hope the vulture chick will be the first of many Conservationists are celebrating the arrival of the first oriental white-backed vulture chick to be born in captivity in India.
The bird belongs to one of three species of Asian vulture that are listed as critically endangered.

Dr Vibhu Prakash, principal scientist for the vulture breeding programme, said: “This is the most precious new year gift from nature to vulture conservation.”

The egg was laid in November and the centre’s staff had been waiting and hoping ever since, he added.

“This success shows that we have got the conditions right, so we can plan ahead with confidence.”

Nick Lindsay,
Zoological Society of London
The breeding centre, based in Pinjore, northern India, is run by the Bombay Natural History Society (BNHS), and is supported by Indian government departments and organisations, including the UK’s Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (RSPB), and the Zoological Society of London (ZSL).

Nick Lindsay, ZSL’s head of international zoo programmes, said the society had been heavily involved in the centre since the late 1990s.

“It was established with a UK government Darwin Initiative grant, when the cause of the decline in vultures was still being investigated,” he said.

The centre shifted its focus from research to breeding once it was discovered that diclofenac, a drug widely used by vets in the region to treat cattle, was the main reason for the vultures’ deaths.

The link was firmly established in 2004 when tests on captive vultures fed carcass flesh traced with the drug produced symptoms that were strikingly similar to those witnessed in sick birds in the wild.

Mr Lindsay said the centre’s work concentrated on the three species most seriously affected by diclofenac: the oriental white-backed vulture (Gyps bengalensis), the long-billed vulture (Gyps indicus) and the slender-billed vulture (Gyps tenuirostris).

In the past 15 years, population losses of more than 95% have been reported in these birds.

Vultures used to be a more common sight in the skies
“We have to measure all of our successes against the backdrop that we are still talking about the extinction of the vultures,” he warned.

In Nepal, conservation groups were visiting pharmacies and clinics located within areas used by vultures and swapping supplies of diclofenac with a bird-friendly replacement, meloxicam.

“But even then it is going to be a struggle because the range of these birds is so vast.”

……………………………………………………

It only needs people with not an agenda against dokhmenishini to notice that The killer drug has been banned, world experts work together to solve the vulture problem, yet only fools would envisage a plan by world experts using modern tchnologies as waste of time..

On taking a life term to achieve the ORIGINAL VULTURE POPULATION and Thus Shelving the plan shows the thirst to stop dokhmenishini..after all do we need the million of vultures in a jiffy..ofcourse not…but even that would eventually be a reality with the human spirit of wrking towards it instead of working agaunst it..
..Piroz and the rest who vehemently deny vulture conservation programes are the answer must think these all are crazy..

Their best justfiation is that its going to take time..somehow they have forgotten their own history..it took more than 1000 years for the downfall of zoroastranism in our lands and then a millenia to bring it back to its glory…

Compare the story of the aden fire temple where in for the first time it was envisaged that a fire would be carried on a plane….
perhaps mickey, piroz
and their cotorie would be the first to shelf that plan to..if the were in that scenario…luckily they were not and the zoroastrians once again suceeded in their endavour…and im sure we wil again…
as i said with all the hulabuloo of increasing numbers, one thing is for sure , we would be better off than such people who thirst to close down zoroastrian systems…
after all lets see what zoroastrian organisation abroad have to say..’ The young Russian Anjoman hasn’t had to deal with this tradition yet, but as Titkov said, «Russia is a big country. … We’ll figure something out.from http://www.fravahr.org/spip.php?article337

only people with ‘WANTS’ blame others overzealously and question funds being spent on the reason for the charity given..and ‘WANT ‘ it to be spent at their discretion…

if ther are 100000 zoroastrians in india , it would take 200 rs per head..but ofcourse people like sorabje and piroz would rather use the funds to pay their maintainence..afer al being a parsi means to some means only ..wants charity!!!

Perhaps clearer minds would enable people to realise that the BIGEGST CHARITY now would be to ‘GIVE BACK’ to zoroastrian systems instead of taking from it continously…and thus we would envisage the continuation of zoroastrian system and thus zoroastrianism…

ofcourse now the next excuse would lie in their quoting from those who work for vulture conservation , acknowledging the work and chalenges ahead

As a thinker, just because I am against suggestion of enormous amounts of BPP Funds meant for our underprivileged brethren being wasted on chancy experiments for vulture conservation in captivity, does not mean I am against endeavors of preservation of Zoroastrian Systems, per se. If like-minded fellow brethren rationally oppose this flawed obsession of a select misguided few, it does not translate into their opposition to Dokhmenashini as such.

The question which arises here is why Bombay Parsee Panchayet beneficiaries alone should be deprived of their allocated quota of charity funds by their diversion for non-viable projects, when elsewhere Parsee Panchayet Trustees have no fixation about pre-empting vulture extinction and have glaringly ceased to maintain this practice_ they are not known to pick bones about alternative method/s of disposal of the community dead, borne out of practical compulsions. By all means let those Trustees overzealous about this venture, raise separate funds for same and proceed.

And btw, as a responsible community member proud of her Zoroastrian faith, I certainly don’t need certification of maturity from judgmental dogmatic strangers.

Thanks to the efforts again , we feel proud that someone atleast has tajen the initiative to work with world experts for the same..

BPP all the best and as history never forgets, you may just be remembered and thanked by out forfathers for putting right, giving back instead of just taking from zoroastrian systems.

Hope Ahura Mazda gives you the strength not to be taken aback by negative people and negativity and blackmail as this can only lead to one path..to do nothing, to stay in limbo…to let wither away, weather its an agiary, a dokhmenishini system, or a system that ensurs our continuation…

With all the talk of converting to increase our numbers, one thing is for sure..we would do better without people like dhongidox and those who strive for only ‘ wants’ and never ‘ give back’, those that make ridiculous excuses that since abroad zoroastrians systems are not in place , we should also cease to maintain it elsewhere…

Im sure the task on BPPS hands of conservating vultures is easier than dealing with people who wl aid builder lobby or anyone else just because of their wants and thirst to stop dokhmenishini..

after all we must have had excuse givers that aided zoroastrianism losing Armenia culminating in the downthrust of the zoroastrian empire…

His logic would also suggest that Dr Vibhu Prakash should bear the cost of vulture conservation as the govt taxes are meant only for people, also experimenst on flora and fauna consrvation and conservation of indegenious tribes worldwide…
This logic would immediately put a stop to aids awarness, anti cancer treatment , the preservation of momuments and anything to do with moral conduct.

It is so negatice in aproach that the dhongidox is short of blaming the world community, world experts and world experience and modern technology that is used for such projects.

Maybe such people wod have stoped the boats from persia that enabled us to take refuge here by stating that the people responsible for taking such a decission would ahve to bar the cost of boats incase we were unsuccesfull.

]Mickey sorbjees words resound only one thing..’ A WANT”.. A Want for funds to be dusperssed, examples of dokhmenishni not in other parts of the world does not amount or jusify not having one or maintaining for one. With logic of this argument, one can put forth a right as to appeal against the ones responsible for zoroastrian surviving and putting in place such practises.
Zoroastrians migrated abroad even whilst tere was no dokhmenishini in Mumbai, yet the ones responsible for survival of zoroastrianism put in place a zoroastrian system.
Mickey sorabjee statements lacks the maturity to see such, that continuation of zoroasrian system is the mos important, as without zoroastrian systems , zoroastrianism would case to exist and thus zoroastrians…

But I guess the desperation for ‘WANTs’ overrides the morale to ‘Give back’..it stoops so ow that it negates the zoroastrian spirit of continuation of zoroastrianism, but also of envisaging any pogrames due to such blackmail…

and then these blame the younger generations for not being enterpreneurs