Arjun Rampal and the desecration of an Agiyari
The image you see below is from a recent issue of GQ Magazine published in India. Arjun Rampal actor/model answers some candid questions and one of his answers is a boastful “I am one of the few people who have gone into the Agyari pretending to be a Parsi”.
This is really pathetic and obnoxious of Arjun Rampal. A little background. Arjun Rampal is married to Meher Jesia, ex Miss India. 
Current rules state that only Parsis are allowed entry into their holy places, the Agiyaris and the Atashbehrams. And Arjun is not a Parsi. What right does he then have to break the rules of a community, just to satiate his own personal curiosity and boast about it.
Rules in religion are not always agreed upon. But as long as they exist one needs to respect them.
Parsi fire temples are not guarded securitized places. Over the centuries there has been a certain respect/trust within the society, which respects the wishes of the Parsi community and not venture into their fire temples.
I am not a legal maven, but I wonder if a criminal case of trespass can be filed against this Arjun Rampal. He has knowingly desecrated a consecrated place, an agiary.
It also makes me wonder what sort of a person Arjun is, what moral standards he must have to take credit in publicly admitting such an act.
Burzin,
We are not discussing other faiths and religions and the admission procedure they observe. So lets restrict ourselves to our own places of worship. Firstly, I have not advocated unrestricted entry of persons of other regions into our places of worship. I also do not condone trespass in our places of worship.
Secondly, my question to you “Please explain if presence of half and quarter Parsees as Chasniwallas DOES NOT AFFECT VIBRATIONS AND BENEFICENT ENERGIES. or NOT. IF NOT THEN HOW ?” is very specific. This question to you is based on your own earlier statement based on your belief system. To this question you seem to have no reply let alone a convincing one.
I do not undermine or underestimate the power of holy fires. It is for you to justify your own earlier statement.
Dear Piloo mai, I though this was an objective discussion but your posts definitely are in bad taste – your making personal comments and passing needless judgements. God bless you.
Rashna, you make a valid point around Chasniwallas, however many agiyaris I know do employ only Parsis for the job. Though myself have seen that in some places this is doubtful and is therefore wrong. I agree and accept.
ideally, all agitaris should employ Parsis as Chasniwallas – agreed but that becomes difficult in a community like ours. Endeavour should still be to get unemployed / not optimally educated Parsi youth to work in agiyaris while simultaneously sponsoring their education etc (the way some of our youth abroad don’t mind working in Mc Donalds while studying in some University)..
But tell me one thing one wrong cannot justify aother wrong that is committed, right? So on the original argument, it is still wrong for Mr. Ramphal to trample our sentiments for the sake of his curiosity.
Dear Burzin
I too do believe that one wrong can not be quoted to justify another wrong.Which Agiaris employ only Parsee workers. I assume one can count on one’s fingers. Most Agiaris in Mumbai have have at best bhel puri aulad. So does that NOT affect the sanctity of the Holy Fire. or VIBRATIONS AND BENEFICENT ENERGIES. ? I think otherwise. The Holy Fire is unaffected by presence of individuals irrespective of the parentage.
I know of many cranks complaining of entry of Parsi females entering Fire Temples despite being married to men belonging to another religion. But such cranks do not have the guts to ask the Priests present to ask such ladies to leave. Why? The priests themselves express a fear that Trustees of the Fire Temple may disapprove of such action of the priests.
We have a tendency to have different rules for different persons ands mere complaining does not add any substance.
Burzin,
You say its wrong for a NonParsi to enter the agiary or even a half Parsi to work there as chasniwala,
Can you cite any verse from any Zoroastrian Scriptures that says so.
Thank you
Probably the guys who made and donated the agiaries and were responsible for passing on zoroastrianism and saving it from extinction knew more about rules than the ones who think it is their birthright to demand the nullification of rules made by the ones from whom everything is taken yet their rules sidelined…
Classic example is that of the chasniwallas.
well 50 years back the modernists saw working towards the agiaries as backward and was shunned though using its assets was maintained….today another step in that direction and using the agiaries are deemed a birthright whilst sidelining the rules laid down by the givers of such…
Let us know where in it is mentioned that all and sundry and allowed in an agiary….it is clearly the wish of the donors of such that in the places made by them, only Zoroastrians are allowed
Mr Burzin, FYI, daughter of one of the BPP Trustee- Arnavaz Mistree, is married to a Muslim, and as per the khabar, she is said to have entered the Agiary escorted by Panthaky himself. Well, a group of ppl here, including an Ervad, seem to discuss it and wait for others to take action while bemoaning how the religion is coming to an end. http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2204577503&topic=6199
Now tell me something, if BPP can ban priests who go against the tradition, why can’t they ban their fella Trustee for doing the same?
And if this BPP Trustee is not bigoted, then why is she supporting the WAPIZ duo iin their absurd Fatwas?
And I understand that one of the Trustee of this particular Agiary also happens to be a BPP Trustee and went to the extent of saying that he would extend the BAN on Madon & Mirza for that particular Dadar Fire Temple as well.
In the same Agiary a sister of yet another BPP Trustee who has become a Jew by virtue of her marriage has entered and attended a Religious ceremony.
Where is the Orthodox brigade now? Where is Khojestee mistry and his cheerleaders?? Oh btw, I have heard Khojestee Mistry’s brother is married to a Christian American who is spotted wearing Sudreh-Kusti!! Strange Dhongees these Traditionals are, ney? Btw, since you said Parsis should volunteer to work as chasniwalas as a part time job, how about practice before preaching?
I for one would like to know where it is stated that ONLY A PARSI is allowed entry in to the Agiaries. Such places of worship were bequeathed to the practicing Zoroastrians and not to a tribe called Parsees, for if that were so, Iranees would also get excluded.
As far as I know, the Koran is the only holy book which specifically enjoins its followers to shun the practioners of certain other religions. I am apalled at the nonsense I’ve been reading here about half-Parsis and full-Parsis and god knows who else. I would imagine that the holy prophets – Zarathustra prime among them – were tolerant and compassionate beings whose philosophy was based on love for all human beings. As Farzana rightly points out, there is nothing in the Gathas or Avesta which preaches exclusion. All these rules and “religious” ceremonies – down the centuries – have been the creation of priests and rulers who wanted to inspire awe and reverencein the general populace. They refined this canard to such an extent that people started believing their man-made rituals were the intentions of Prophet Himself. They also fostered this myth of consecration and desecration, as if Zarathustra and Ahura Mazda are so puny and petty minded that the mere presence of a “parjat” or “half-caste” would distress Them.
I believe a simple and sincere prayer from the heart would have a better chance of being heard by Him than the mechanical observance of rituals.
Burzin I fully agree with your points, infact they dont need any support. Regarding chasniwallas I just came across this article, which answers many questions all over.
http://traditionalzoroastrianism.blogspot.com/2007_08_31_archive.html
Hope this chap is punished.
I think Rustom Jamasji is right. First thing to be done is to get a copy of the Truste Deeds of various Fire Temples and if need be invoke Right To Information Act and if it is mentioned in the comcerned Trust Deeds that entry into Fire Temples is only for Parsees then, WAPIZ Trustees should get a Resolution Passed thru BPP BOARD for providing for issuance of Identity Cards to be shown at the gate of concerned Fire Temples. The Identity Cards should be issued after the Mobed who performed the Navjote of the concerned person certifies date and place where he performed such a Navjote. In case it is claimed that the performing priests is no longer alive, such a person should be denied entry into Fire Temples.These days like Chasniwallas any body can put on sudreh kusti. I support you fully Rustom.
Addressed to Rustom & Meher,
Meher, I have read the apge on the Facebook and after reading the same beg to ask Rustom one simple question. You Rustom and your friends have proudly proclaimed VICTORY of traditional forces since 2 members of WAPIZ camp scraped through.in BPP elections. Now that your representatives are in saddle for 18 months, why are they hesitant in taking suitable action to stop entry of non Zoroastrians in to Fire Temples.If a farcical navar ceremony could be stopped, what is the reason for not taking ACTION on similar lines much nearer home?
Just words on this blog wont solve the problem.
What ever Rustom says is correct. Just as the staunch stalwarts could prevent mockery of our Religion by their timely action at Sanjan, we should organise a brigade to visit all venues like Albless Baug, Cama Baug, Jejeebhoy Dadabhoy Agiary and verify the antecedents and parentage, grandparentage of child whose Navjote is to be performed. This brigade should include all the staunch saviours like Sleater Road based Prof. Munnabhai.
There will be two benefits. Such unemployed will do some constructive work and also get a chance to enjoy a four course meal since fresh elections to BPP are five years away and during this period free loaders are having a hard time.
Burzin your suggestion to induct Parsee boys into serving as Chasniwallas is impractical.
Have you not seen young Navars in Udwada openly asking for alms within the Iranshah premises.?
You ask thm to come down to Bombay for doing priestly duties and will they be willing. Just try.
Agp.
Can you inform us the qualifications and standing of one Pervin Mistry whose article you have cited?
Is she an authority on Religion?. If I mistake not, her speech at some seminar was reproduced on this portal a month and a half back or so. Many boardersraised questions about the views that she uttered. SHE DID NOT REPLY A SINGLE QUESTION. So much for her ‘MASTERY’
Zerxes
Pervin Mistry has been writing about religious matters for many years. Her views may or may not be liked by people. That is each individual’s choice.
At the same time, the article you mention was published here after it was forwarded to us via email. Pervin Mistry did not send it to us per se.
I dont know if she reads Parsi Khabar and hence to take it for granted that she did not reply, hence what she writes is devalued is wrong.
You may want to get her email address from other sources and email her directly if you are really interested in probing deeper into her writings.
Arzan:
Aince it is Agp who is relying on the write up of Pervin Mistry, I think, it will be in the fitness of things, if Agp can establish the credentials of Ms.Pervin as an authority in the matter of Zoroastrianism. As for the Article which was displayed on this blog, even if Ms. Pervin has any followers, they too could at least have contributed on her behalf on the issues raised by many posts on her speech in some conference. If not then the person who took the pains to E Mail the article to your portal could have made an attempt to rebut many of the pertinent issues raised by many a blogger.
The majority of Parsee population resides in India and if,as you like us to assume that Ms.Pervin may not be reading Parsi Khabar, then I fail to understand how she can lay claim to be spokesperson of a faith whose majority population is sidelined and ignored by her advertently or otherwise.
Thanks.
While Zerxes may have his own reasons about asking questions to another person called Agp., my experience has made me learn some hard facts. I am not talking about Agp or some Ms. Mistry unknown in this part of the world.
I am referring to claims being made by certain mediocre persons and expect that they be called scholars. This is not in the subject of our Religion alone. Some unethical persons lift paras and chapters from Thesis and other literary works of other genuine Research Scholars, change the words here and there and palm it off as their own Thesis and have even earned Doctorates.
Similarly it is possible to hold an audience spell bound and even earn a round of applause after delivering a talk on a subject of a religion whose details are unknown to the audience.
Sir,
I am no member of any Association promoting conversion. I am just a Parsee Zoroastrian brought up in traditional values. I can not accept the argument that it is O.K, if a half Parsee is employed for menial work in a Fire Temple and Vibrations and beneficent energies are not affected by presence of such a person but if a child born out of marriage of one Pasee parent is present there will be deleterious affect on energies and vibrations in the place of worship. This ‘theory’ assumes that a reader is a dim wit and an outright imbecile. According to me presence of both, is not good for the place of worship.
If we read the last line of http://traditionalzoroastrianism.blogspot.com/2007_08_31_archive.html quoted by Agp, we find that there were no comments made thereon. Does that not suggest that such views are not read by anybody except a small coterie?
According to Mrs. Pervin Mistry, sexual exploitation of tribal women by Parsi landlords is not a stigma on the prestige of the community, it is the Navjots of Vansda kids from such unions by Ervad Bode that is a stigma that has tarnished the name of the community. I’m impressed with her logic!!
I wonder who gave this babe the authority to speak for the community? Who is she to decide whats sinful and whats not for rest of us?
On the link provided by AGP…she rants about the Vansda episode and calls it a sin. Any idea, on basis of which Z -scripture is she calling it a ‘Sin’ ? According to Persian Rivayats , such navjots of servants are supposed to earn Priests spiritual merits.
The Itthoter Rivayat of 1773 that are the last exchanges between India and Iran, the question is asked if servants can be converted and their remains consigned to dakhma. The reply given states that converting servants earns great merit!
In another exchange of the Persian Rivayats, “a grave-digger, a corpse-burner and a darvand are mentioned (but nothing is mentioned about their religion), and a question is posed whether they can become Zoroastrians. The reply is again in affirmation.
Pervin Mistry has condemned in no uncertain terms the act of Vansda Navjotes. The Dastur who performed the same is not alive to reply Pervin. But how is it that Pervin ignores similar act of ‘initiation’ into Zoroastrian fold of father son Industrialists-Wadias and Uthamna of another non Parsi industrialist performed/ authorised by living Scholar High Priests. The subsequent acts of such Scholar Priests ratifies rather then question the earlier Vanda Navjotes.Why this selective condemnation??
Among Parsees there is a surname Ghorkhodu,
So as Farzana insinuates, grave diggers were allowed in Zoroastrian faith. And that also means that burial was a Zoroastrian practice.
I stumbled upon a very interesting write up on scriptural references prohibiting intermarriage. Worth a read.
http://zoroastriansnet.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/scriptural-references-prohibiting-mixed-marriages.pdf
Righto Rashna. I too knew of one Ghorkhodu earlier living in Tata Co op Housing Society, Elphinstone Road, Parel where one another pious [?] parsi individual here with hundred pseudonyms also reside