Wants protection for the initiation ceremony of her children born of a Catholic father after threats from disapproving community elders
By Manoj Nair / Mumbai Mirror
A Parsi woman and her non-Zoroastrian husband, who planned the Navjot or initiation ceremony of their two children – a seven-year-old boy and a 10-year-old girl – into the Zoroastrian faith have approached police for security during the event. They fear community members opposing the initiation of children from mixed parentage into the faith could disrupt it.
The couple told the Bandra police on Monday about a relative receiving phone threats, as the children’s father was Catholic and not Zoroastrian.
The couple, who live on Grant Road, said the decision to initiate their children into the Zoroastrian faith was a joint one. “However, after we sent out invites, a close relative received a call from the chairman of the Bombay Parsi Punchayet, who wanted to know whether the children had been baptised into the Catholic faith before. They have not been baptised. Nobody can stop us from conducting the ceremony. I have approached the police for help, as I do not want any untoward incident at a function where there will be children,” said the wife, who runs a travel agency.
Dinshaw Mehta, chairman of BPP, the community’s apex representative body said he received a letter from four high priests of the community asking them to stop the Navjots, specifically mentioning the Navjot in Bandra. “We will meet tomorrow (April 13) to decide whether to intervene. The ceremony is against our religious beliefs,” added Mehta.
Dastor Khusroo Madon, the priest who is conducting the ceremony, was recently barred from conducting rituals at the Towers of Silence and fire temples run by the BPP for his unorthodox views. He said that on an average, he presided over a dozen Navjot of children, who have one of their parents as non-Parsi. “Navjot is a personal matter and nobody, including community trusts, can interfere,” he said.
Prakash George, Senior PI, Bandra said, “I cannot provide security unless they register a complaint. They have only given an application saying that they were not threatened directly.”
[hat tip: Mickie Sorabjee]
Looks like BPP and its ilk have gone nuts with the sort of moral policing going on in the last few months. They are seeking cheap publicity and their supporters are falling prey to such trashy gimmicks.
Call the press … engage bodyguards (goorkhas) and go ahead and have a lovely navjote!
The police needs a case to be filed so that they can act – then file a case!
All the best for the family and the children!
Bravo to the Dasturjee !
Jeannie
The Chairperson of the Bombay Parsi Panchayat has expressed an opinion that if the navjote ceremony of the children of the Parsi lady married to a Catholic gentleman is allowed to be performed, “it will upset the relgious sentiments of our (parsi) community and therefore create a law and order situation.” Once again, Mehta, who was elected to a purely secular post administrating Parsi trust properties, has set himself up as an arbiter of religious issues – a Parsi Pope, if you will.
Someone should remind Mehta that he has no authority to speak on behalf of the parsi community, particularly on matters of religion. There are two schools of thought about the sanctity of a navjote of progeny of mixed marriage couples; and both deserve equal respect. The Parsis were once renowned and appreciated for their broadmindedness, propriety and sophistication. That image is being severely tarnished by these self-appointed “spokesmen”.
As for the “law and order situation”, until a few years ago, the very idea of Parsis resorting to violence would have been laughable. Unfortunately, this is no longer true. A few weeks ago, a group of Bombay Parsis, led by no less august a personage than the Chairman of the Bombay Parsi Panchayat, stormed the premises of Meher Master Moos’s Zoroastrian College near Sanjan. The “crusaders” threw chairs, vandalized furniture and assaulted staff members. I, for one, never thought I’d love to see the day when we Parsis would draw our inspiration from the Shiv Sena and the MNS . Kudos.
There is justifiable anxiety among the Parsi community over their rapidly declining numbers. I, for one, am more concerned about the deterioration in quality – civility, tolerance and just plain class.
I hope these people pay for their sins. You have to be born complete Zoroastrian (both parents) to do a Navjote. Why didn’t she think this before getting married out. You cut your cake now eat it, don’t share your “AJJITHELU” with someone else and hurt our true zoroastrians feelings and slapping us on our face, saying I will have the police pehra! What are you going to do? The police should not be involved in religious matters, anyway. Respect Woman!!! Become a catholic, you will have more choice what you want to do, and see how the catholic will restrict your views. Shame on you and your family.
“Dastor Khusroo Madon, the priest who is conducting the ceremony, was recently barred.”
Take all the ervards Title, Jamo and Pagri off. There are some in America and UK too.
Grave, sinful, dead nailed, final mistake, saddening mistake….
Hurts to read this, it really does, how selfish can people be, they will distort every thing that is saved since generations….
We never had such problems until recently. We have been a peace loving community and now people resort to threats and the threatened have to go to police for protection! What a shame! What a sad state of affairs for our small community! Let us hope common sense would prevail amongst our community members at large as also amongst our seniors.
Homiyar
Navjote, the initiation of a Parsi into the fold of Zoroastrianism
The initiation of a Parsi child into the fold of the Zoroastrian religion is known as Navjote. The ceremony of the initiation consists of the investiture of the child with a sacred shirt called sudre and a sacred thread called kusti. A Zoroastrian may put on any dress he likes, but he must put on the sacred shirt and the thread as the symbol and badge of his religion.
Meaning of the word Navjote.
The word Navjote is made up of two words Nav (Avesta, nava; Sans. nava; Lat. novus) new and Zote (Avesta zaotar from zu, Sans hu to offer prayers) one who offers prayers. Hence, the word would mean a new initiate to offer Zoroastrian prayers. The ceremony is so named, because it is after its performance that a Zoroastrian child is said to be responsible for the duty of offering prayers and observing religious customs and rites as a Zoroastrian. The ceremony of Navjote among the Parsis, corresponds to that of ‘Confirmation’ among the Christians.
http://www.avesta.org/dhalla/history2.htm#chap8:
The Bridge of Judgment We are given in figurative language by Zarathushtra the image of a bridge, called Chinvat [Chinwad], literally ‘of the dividing one’, that connects this world with the unseen world, and serves as a medium to cross the deep chasm that separates the two. The reckoning of the good or evil deeds of the souls takes place after [104] death,11 and judgment is passed upon them before they can cross the bridge. The souls fare here as is their due. The righteous souls come to this place in pious expectation of the reward that awaits them. Zarathushtra helps those righteous souls to cross the Bridge who have devoutly practised his religion.12 But the wicked souls, who have estranged themselves from the Path of Righteousness by their own evil thoughts, words, and deeds, stand trembling at this judgment span.13 Writhing with the pangs of their conscience and crying words of woe, they are now led by their own conscience to perdition.14
Asha and Armaiti will help Ahura Mazda at the final judgment.11 Mazda knows best how to mark out the lost sinners at the final ordeal of the molten metal.12 This tribulation will reclaim the sinners.13
Stop ur koylo pigan patio -Mazdayus no Zarthosti.
We are making a laughing stock of our once proud and respected community. Washing dirty linen in public time and again. Maintain some dignity and respect and resolve your personal issues quietly instead of going to town on them and seeking the limelight. No is interested in what you do in your own private lives. It’s your own affair. Maintain the tenets of your religion and stay true to your faith.
Navroze Pastakia, right you are Sir,- A pleasure to read a sensible voice.
When there is nothing tangible as achievement, what else can they do. Some of them have even gone back on their Election promise to declare their assets if elected. I assume they are not able to convince their own selves, as yet that they are actually elected.
So diverting the attention is the only way they can show how preoccupied they are. Probably, such ‘events’ will provide masala material for next FPJ Advertisement.
On this blog, rather on this page itself, one of the sycophant has posted 4 messages as if he were appointed by the Lord Himself, to convince the ‘simpleton bawas’.like you and me.
Where is the need to warn somebody of tribulations & perdition. Ahura Mazda has NOT appointed any mortal to convey his message.
When such messengers are called neo Nazis,,Bigots, racists, myopic, they howl like cry babies, but they themselves feel that the Lord has conferred on them right to call other believers as Sinners etc. etc.
Firstly let me be very very clear that any type of threat physical or verbal individual or collective in the name of our beloved religion should and must be condemned. We have been privileged , loved and respected by the freedom loving ,peace loving people of our INDIA . from the very first step we took on its soil.We could have gone to any part of the world and some may have, but AHURA MAZDA in all his wisdom blessed INDIA upon us, and there is over 1300 years of real living history proving he was so right of a refuged people with HUMATA ..HUKTA …HUVARASHTA.
This has become a joke. Everyday I enjoy reading this Site instead of my normal emails. From becoming a Soap Opera, our community elders and orthodox bawajis have gone to the production of Crime Drama not on Hollywood but Bollywood scale. How we all sit and laugh across the world at the pranks and petras of our elected Personnel. Look at Dinshaw Mehta – does he look like a pure Parsi Bawaji – then look at Khojeste Mistry – when I received the last Parsiana , I thought to myself ” now what the hell is Khoeste doing on the cover”. Upon reading I found out that it was the Michahel – the aristocratic Russian gentleman who was so disgracefully treated by our Pure Parsi Race. I think that has started the wheels rolling and every chance they get there will be chaos and disgrace to our noble community.
Do the Bombay parsis expecet one and all – like our Agiari Panthakis and others to go to Vasda (hope I have the town name correct) to have navjotes performed? And again we would have to go through our parsi surnames and make sure all the “SETHNAS’ are deleted from the Pure Parsi race because it is a known fact they belong to the Seth and not the real head of the family. I just love reading this garbage every day ha-ha-ha. So glad to be sitting my beautiful part of the world which I will keep you all guessing where.
Jessi I love your phrase “koylo pijan patio”. Kudos to the two priests who believe in their religion, their faith and in Ahura Mazda to stand-up against these confused people. They have already been guaranteed a seat in Heaven and safe crossing over the Chinvat Pool.
Well, those who were congratulated as staunch, stalwarts & saviours could indulge in lumpen behaviour at Sanjan because there were no Video Cameras. Now let us watch how the ‘staunch’ ‘saviours’ & ‘stalwarts’ repeat their ‘commendable performance’
The one who humbly said two months ago on that he was no religious scholar or an AUTHORITY on religion. That he happened to be a plain simple Parsi Zarathushtri humdin who had been following and practicing the Zarathushti religion as practiced and handed down by his father, forefathers and ancestors *cough cough* … vide long standing traditions
and customs. He added While following the prescribed tarikats, that he never questioned the WHYs and HOWs….but accepted everything at face value with utmost faith and devotion.*phew*!! Curiosity compelled him to find out a few details of the complexity of what he practiced, in which case he took up reading books, attending lectures, visiting
websites and discussing with people who, he felt were more spiritually advanced and knowledgeable than him!!! …… Even after this exercise he adds, that he still knew very little maybe a small fraction of the lofty Zarathosti Deen and felt that one lifetime happened to be too short a period to grasp the various intricate laws of nature…. His limited human intellect (?) did not permit him to see beyond three dimensions but he understood that nature possessed more than 24 dimensions which he was unaware of!!!!!….. Whatever he wrote was what he understood and felt it right to the best of his knowledge and grasping ability.
He further humbly added “ It is yours to ACCEPT or REJECT and there is no compulsion either way.” With all humility he stated that he could be completely WRONG and off the mark in which case he even apologized in
advance!!
Now the same person hiding under various aliases pontificates in an arrogant authoritarian pompous tone about SINS, BUNIYADS and ‘GUNEY-RAVANI’ and the sin of ‘DOODE- VEHAN -VASOVASHI” Interesting!!
This looks like a serious case of Dr.Jekyyl & Hyde !!
Let Ahura Mazda pardon such disturbed minds for they know not what they babble and dabble in… ooops!!
And finally a little confusion here when this person calls himself Mazdayus and at the same time “NO Zarthosti” Strange!! Mazdayus is NO Zarthosti?!!! tsssk tssskk !! toubaa -toubaa!!
Well, true, Mind after all is DRUJ (evil).Point proved!!
Jessie,
Agreed it is Pijan Patlo but look at the ‘devotion’ of this individual. Between 2.46 p.. to 2.59. p.m. this Messenger has posted 3 posts (one under abstract name) and once again reappears at 7.30 p.m. The fellow believes that he is imitating some Religious T.V. Channel.
Seems to be a COMPUTER wizard with easy money.
So Jessie, as the saying goes, ENDURE WHAT ONE CAN NOT CURE. JUST IGNORE SUCH BAKWAS.
Bye.
What do we expect from BPP? They have gone ‘Nuts’.
Please stop interfering into personal matters of others.
Rise my dear fellow Zoroastrians (Parsees/Iranis) and stop BPP from passing ‘Fatwas’ after ‘Fatwas’.
of course v r all for her.navjote ceremony should take place if eitherpartner is a parsee.tell those chor trustees 2 mind their own houses & fly & do something good for parsis i.o breaking the community.wat about their own fly members getting married outside caste & cremation tkg place inspite of being parsis.all trustees r big cheats making money for themselves & harssing others.tell them 2 do some constructive wrk & not destructive wrk
Many posts on this topic mention double standards of some priests about navjotes of children born of mixed parents and last rites of “renegate” Zoroastrians.
I don’t know much about all this, so could anyone give me extra details or links about these events?
” The couple told the Bandra police on Monday about a relative receiving phone threats, as the children’s father was Catholic and not Zoroastrian.”
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Lovely! im quite sure giving threats on phone is also sanctioned in Vendidad. isn’t it?
But Im not surpised at phone threats, …of late BPP trustees are experiencing an identity crisis, they’ve started thinking of themselves as Khap Panchayats. And four Vada Dastoors are no less, they think BPP is their private army!!
Quite certainly aapra Zarathustra must be soooo impressed by all this!!… esp with the staunch Zarathusti trustee who has so enthusiastically called a meeting to discuss methods of terrorizing the family conducting navjot!! wonderful!
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
WILL ANY SANE PERSON STILL MAINTAIN THAT ONLY ONE INDIVIDUAL IS POSTING HIS/HER ‘REFORMIST’ VERSION UNDER DIFFERENT ID’S?
The Voice of the Community is crystal clear and those who trumpet about the ‘Victory’ in Election should realise that public opinion is very sensitive. If those elected do not perform as per expectation, the Exit door is imminent.after 6 years. Had the entire community participated in the Election of 2008 instead of sitting at Home,the outcome would have probably been some what different.
Mazdayus, Your post is offensive..How can you call someone’s loved child “ajithelu”.? Practise being a good human being first before posting your twisted beliefs about Zoroastrian sins.. One should be pure of heart and soul and thats all that matters.
Enough is enough!
Are there any young lawyers in the Parsi Community who can be persuaded to volunteer their time and initiate legal proceedings to invalidate the archaic and ancient terms under which the Bombay Parsi Panchayet was formed centuries ago? It is time to enter the 21st century with a clean slate and thereby preserve the Zoroastrian faith and teachings (not the so-called genetics) from the bigoted and misinformed antics of these trustee-custodians of community owned charity properties.
It is a sad commentary that the only modern research and writings on Zoroastrianism are authored by scholars whom the BPP trustees would not admit to a Fire Temple! A truly devoted and concerned Zoroastrian should read the works of Mary Boyce, Albert de Jong, Gherardo Gnoli, John R. Hinnells, J. Kellans, Tanya M. Luhrmann, Susan Stiles Maneck, Saul Shaked, Alan V. Williams and S.A. Nigosian. These are only a few modern authors of very authoritative researched works relating to Zoroastrianism and its peoples, published within the last twenty years and easily available today. I urge every student of Zoroastrianism whether a follower or not, who cares to learn about the teachings of the Prophet, to start reading such books and ignore the convoluted interpretations of the self-appointed pundits.
Anyone confronted by the racist statement that a to be a Parsi-Zoroastrian one should be “born of both Zoroastrian parents” should consider this dilemma. Namely, if we can only be born to the Zoroastrian faith, then none of us is a Zoroastrian today! Because, even during the lifetime of the Prophet, none of his contemporaries, including his own wife was “born of both Zoroastrian parents”! The religion, in that case, would have ceased to exist after the passing of the Prophet, and he would have been the only follower of his own beliefs and teachings!
The argument of race and ethnic purity is an insult to humanity at large. The only race we all belong to is the human race. The teachings of Zarathustra, as of all faiths, cannot be “owned” or “copyrighted” by any tiny ignorant group of people.
Such racist tyranny has been attempted throughout history, and people of all faiths have suffered its consequences. The perpetrators of such racist bigotry are remembered in history as criminals, tyrants, sinners and fiends…names like Hitler and his claim of Aryan superiority come to mind!
Tamaam!
‘Holy’ persons have a prerogative to defile and then sit in judgments over others,pass remarks and expletives against laity. They enjoy immunity after all they ‘won’ an election, did they not?They are like our politicians who ask the public to tighten the belts and themselves lead a different life style
That is the ‘high spiritual attainments’ of Navar Martabs.
So Farzana and Khushnaz thats reality of life.
This Parsi lady is very brave, she is not getting pressurised.
If all the Parsi women follow her steps and fight against the
status quo a lot can change for the better.
This refers to adverse comments made by one Mazdayus no Zathosti about Dastor Khusroo Madon,and the common complaint that members of our Community do not give respect to Priests. I openly ask such persons who make such complaints, do you have anything in defence of the managing agent priest who walked off midway during a Geh Sarna at Towers on the 15th and the BPP Chairman had to come all the way (in absence of any other work) to intervene in the ugly dispute between 2 Mobeds.Ervard Madon is much refined and humble compared to this BPP’s managing Agent Mobed.
The Henpecked Parsee press “Weakly”(pun intended) will never report such shameful episode since there is a ‘firman’ that only sugar coated stuff has to be disseminated as per BPP Censorship unwritten Rules”. But such things can never be kept under the carpet when a large gathering from a Parsee Colony is present.
Let us all see how ‘independent and objective’ this Sunday weakly(!) is.
_______________
Yezdyar, I also have just read your post on the dakhma issue and now on novjote. I like your logical and balanced responses to both issues. I like what you say about the panchayatis, and you also tell us of ways in which to respond. Your ideas are very good. Parsis like you who can think clearly and write so well, without calling people with bad names, should step forward to lead the community. You must stand to election as a trustee. If not, wherever you are, keep writing like this and educate youths like me, so we can overthrow the bigots who rule the Parsis and to take charge.
Reading all this makes me exclaim: I am ashamed to be a Parsi !
I was told about this site whenI checked my mail today. Thank you, Piloo. I have been expressing views occasionally and one of my letters in Parsiana was read by her to which she responded.
I saw Mehta’s photograph after the Trustees one the court case. He was depicted to be a boxer who had KOed his opponent. He looked vulgar. He and his beardednMistree (that’s a cook and clerk combination) have been using money poured in from Rasna”s owner. Their views are shared by many Parsis but should not be forced down the throats of all who do not have the same opinion.
The BPP is a body to look after our extensive estates. To dictate religious tenets goes beyond the scope of these elected individuals. Truly, the remarks passed by Mehta are not the views of the Parsis. No feelings are hurt. Let the navjote of the child of a non-Parsi father be happily performed. To hell with these bigots. They are no better than the Shiv Sena and MNS. We should try and get together and oust them from their present positions and not wait for six years. Stem the rot and welcome the child.
Hi, Yazdyar,
Appreciate your opinion and agree with most of them. But one thing we have to remember is that litigation is not the solution. It is not only time consuming but costly as well and the Trustees to do not have to spend a dime from their own pockets. It is the money meant for welfare of the community that is spent by the Trust..
It is only because of free loaders who exercised their franchise based on the taste of the dinners rather than on merit of the candidates who are responsible for the current messy situation. Instead of Court cases, it would be prudent to create a public opinion against those bigots. If necessary support from politicians should also be considered as such bigots often resort to vandalism and get compliments from other bigots with terms such as ‘staunch and choost’ Parsis. Yes it is necessary to make such Trustees realise that they can not allow themselves to be dictated by a handful of negative minds to whom apartheid is Religious Piety.
Very sad that threats are being passed out for something so pure as a Navjote. Personally, I have been against initiations of kids who are not of Parsi-Zoroastrian Origin into the religious fold. But on the other hand, I feel that if the Parsi-Zoroastrian parent is able to maintain his/her faith and can impart the same values in the child, then a Navjote is justified. I myself married a Christian, but am true to my Parsi-Zoroastrian faith. But, I do not think that my kids will be able to absorb / retain the Zoroastrian values, hence I shall not be having their Navjote ceremonies done. If anyone feels that I am not going the right way, please feel free to let me know.
Are we down to this now? Threats. Verbal abuse. Yet we think of ourselves as better than the religious fanatics of other religions. This is all proof positive that the bawaji bullies are on the defensive. Shame on them!
Hi Jeny, Thats exactly the point, there shouldn’t be any right or wrong way (At least thats what I think). One must be allowed to go freely with their heart… if you feel navjote is not for you so be it, but if another lady feels otherwise, she should be graciously allowed that choice.. Graciously- with love, acceptance and no malice in hearts is it that hard to welcome the new additions??
In this day and age things are changing at a rapid pace- our world is shrinking and our busy existence is throwing some extraordinary stress on our personal and professional lives… Faith is that corner of respite where one turns to for healing, guidance, support. Especially for women/mothers it is key to allow us the choice as we are pillars for our families wellbeing and most of all for the advancement of our children….
All the archaic “rules” may have been suitable for another time, but I feel this new time requires something different – a mindset change..So far, I have not read or heard any suitable reasoning of why non Parsees are restricted from firetemples, doongerwaadis etc? Why won’t they let their dear departed leave this world with dignity and peace of mind? Why will they dictate us? Why won’t choost Parsees allow us females who have marrried outside the community feel welcomed with their families to pray in peace if they so choose? Why this name-calling and racist attitide? It is baffling that so progressive a community is plagued with such terrible mentality?
Silloo, here is an eyewitness account of how low WAPIZ mawalis can stoop!! Ironically they claim to be CHOOST ZARATHUSTIS!!
Quote- “The panchayat sent gondas to their house , threathened to tear the sudreh off the kids and much much more . The bribed the priests in lacs not to do the navjote , asked the caterer to cancell and offered to pay him all damages , pressurised the school to cancel the function and this wnet on till a couple of hours before the reception . I never dreamt the panchayat would stoop so low in Gods name and that too with a woman and a child . They gave her name full add and tel nos in the bloody papers and asked community members to stop them !!!!!”
We have a 7 month Lhasa Apso specially imported from Tibet, we are very careful in the upbringing of our doggie so that the traits and peculiarities are well preserved. We also enure he does not emulate other neighouring dogs or mongrels. They say all is in the ‘gene”, we dont want a paariah.
Dont give out helpless excuses about the community withering, in fact no Zaroastrian organisation has really reached out and put incentives to lure potential marriage partners to get them into the religion. The community numbers are falling because of each zarthosti, its every man’s role in sustaining the life span of the religion. Upstart kids want to marry dheras from all over, some repent at the age of 50, while others die an spiritually ignorant end.
What have we done to stimulate parsi youth and preserve their integrity towards the fire ?
The worst act and a major sin is to first marry the dhera of your choice then suddenly, one day Dadarji wakes up the conscience and there they go hunting for the moolah-friendly dastoorji who is sick with his life with a small pay packet and is willing to sell his soul for some money he had always imagined to get.
People think they can get away by pushing their haram na paisa buying dasturjees all over just to camoflague their blackened past. The act of performing Navjote after marrying outside the community is absolutely contorted and psychologists have proved that the same human being leads a life of hallucinations.
This is not an impersonal issue, it is our own flesh and blood and this disease is more plaguing than carcinoma, slowly breaking the cells of various life processes. Prevent it before we can make the difference of fair zarthosti and some unknown blackish convert.
What is the meaning of first knotting the life with a non zoroastrian and then forcibly getting inside the sacred premises of a community who never believes in retaliating or violence, just because father is/was a trustee/ known person in that vicinity.
Well, there are other class of parsis who themselves go to agiary, stay on righteous path, marry and settle inside the community, their children proliferate and then they encourage and instigate fickle mindeds to go haywire.
People should atleast go to a psychriatrist to check their mind frames before supporting such cheap activities, be it commenting on a blog or a print media.
Farzana, I am not surprised. This is always the case of those that are losing the battle to stoop so low. The same thing with the fanatics of all religions. How is this different from the mullahs in Iran and other places? How shameless they have all become.
Mr Framroze,.How dare you insult a lady’s choice for selecting a life-partner that suits her needs in this day and age? No matter if they are Doctors or Engineers, but for you their selections are “dhera- untouchable” because they are non-Parsee and not fair-skinned..”Unknown blackish convert” your words, who made you Dr. I wonder as your attitude stinks of racism..
More power to women like above who will not be deterred by such vile and vitriliolic comments. Men like you have usurped our rights to freedom to practise our religion. The light of truth is shining now, more and more women will come out to challenge this broken system with full support of like-minded men. Don’t fret, change is in the air whether you like it or not :)
Dr. Faramroze Chyella,
Sahebji,
Nothing personal and therefore kindly take no offence.
I believe you are a professional physiotherapist located in Valsad. Right. I never knew that a physiotherapist could prescribe psychiatric treatment for holding some religious beliefs. I too am religious and not in favour of conversions but I would not go hammer and tongs to call others as Pariahas. Do you, Doctor have any illustrative example of your sweeping statement ‘The act of performing Navjote after marrying outside the community is absolutely contorted and psychologists have proved that the same human being leads a life of hallucinations.’ since you happen to be a physiotherapist.
No offence meant
With respects.
Its very sad to see such a lovely community with fun-loving people being so badly at the cross-roads with the mainstream media making fun of the whole community by regularly highlighting the childish, substandard behaviour of certain individuals. Right from bashing Russian priests, beating 67 year old lady to issues fatwas by Egoistic priests
to imposing bans on anything which relates to the word – reform – Feels really disappointing to see the state of affairs.
There is a urgent need for reconciliation between diverse
camps by fostering a spirit of tolerance, respect and love
for the community.
Yes it is absurd as Yas says. Even the Vatican is apologetic for the recent revelations but non elected Popes too many from our faith justify loutish mob conduct. Though a couple of these Parsee Popes are assigned to their territorial jurisdiction where their writ can run, they are more in Mumbai then in the Towns which they are supposed to represent. Religious head are supposed to unify and reconcile but amongst Parsees, the religious heads do exactly the opposite.
Silloo…you are quite right. It is always these “activists”, which has become a pseudonym for hooligans, who grab the headlines. The silent majority, true to form, stays silent. The result is that this is the image of Parsis that is being projected to other communities. And when these stalwarts of the Parsi Inquisition are led by no less a personage than the Chairman of the BPP and the “sainted” Khojeste Mistry, it almost gives this kind thuggery official sanction. If this is our much vaunted “Parsipanu”. I, for one, want nothing to do with it.
Inter-marriage navjotes should be banned be it parsi father or parsi mother. There should be some legislature and governance to curtail such episodes. Stringent action should be taken along with penalizing punishment.This story is not about being a power packed, action oriented NOW WOMAN.
Natasha, Why do you feel that way? Just saying inter-marriage navjotes should be “banned” doesn’t mean a thing… Why, how and what kind of “stingent action” are you proposing? Do you want to appoint a Parsi taliban to enforce the same? Perhaps you want to take it to another level & maybe want to stone women & men who don’t comply with your views! Is this what our beautiful community comes down to? This generation must get rid of all this darkness & prejudice and we must open our eyes to light of love, acceptance and grace..
If you think like that Dr. above who feels human beings should be bred like pedigree dogs than you are living in a fantasy world!! Ground reality is men and women are choosing life partners of their own free will; you or I – noone can stop that…
Silloo,
have you read this news? interesting!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8614232.stm
I am not fond of the pope nor Richard Hawkins and his agnostibabble.
Until I read the treatise by Dr. Faramroze Chyella I did not realize the depth of the problems our community faces.
The doctor has based his prognosis on his personal experience of breeding pedigree dogs and bitches (female dogs), and would have us follow his advice and ensure that we Zoroastrians do not produce pariahs. He also chooses the pejorative racial slur “dheras” when he refers to all non-Zoroastrians. I am pleased that he is the proud owner of a pure Tibetan Lhasa Apso doggie that he keeps confined and away from mingling with “mongrels”. Probably he uses similar confinement for his children so they do not hook up with “dheras”. I respect his choices and do not think anyone should criticize him for his beliefs, particularly because those beliefs have no connection to Zoroastrianism.
However, since he wants to present his views to the community and uses his private passion as a model for public behavior, I have a few questions for the doctor:
Today, world population exceeds 6.8 Billion people. The number of Zoroastrians (go to Google and it will baffle you!) ranges between 125,000 and 2.5 million!
1. Given these numbers Dr. Chyella, do you only treat Zoroastrian patients, and if so, how is your practice doing?
2. However, Dr. Chyella if you have “dheras” among your patients, and you need to touch them and talk to them, what do you do to keep yourself pure?
3. Finally, Dr. Chyella, If it is OK to do business and interact with “dheras”” why can’t a Zoroastrian marry another human being, albeit outside your so-called pure gene pool, to reproduce a healthier and probably more intelligent hybrid of children, who may not even need the psychiatric help you boldly prescribe?
Again, as I mentioned in the first paragraph, I have no objection to your practicing what you preach, whether it is for breeding dogs or children. But, I do have a problem when you spout these banal arguments under the guise of preserving Zoroastrianism!
Siloo dikree, its not about Pope Rats or RD, its about Men of God not being above law ;)
Dr.Faramroze Chyella,
KHSHNAOTHRA AHURAHE MAZDAO
You have used the words, “marry the dhera of your choice”.
Do you know that it is a criminal offence to use derogatory words like “dhera” for people of other communities ? Do you know that you can be arrested for the use of such words ?
You have also stated, “go hunting for the moolah-friendly dastoorji who is sick with his life with a small pay packet and is willing to sell his soul for some money he had always imagined to get.”
Do you know that the charges of the Dastoorji who did this Navjote are much less than the charges of the so called trumpeted ‘orthodox’ mobeds ?
You have also stated, “get away by pushing their haram na paisa buying dasturjees all over just to camoflague their blackened past.”
Do you know that phrases like “Haram na paisa” and “blackened past” that you have used for the intermarrying persons, are derogatory and defamatory , and that both civil and criminal cases can be slapped on to you ?
Have you now at-least realised the error in your thought process ?
Warm regards, keep well,
KERSSIE WADIA
A R Z
The words used by the doc are rude, impolite and brash its what he feels. If only he had used smoother words for the same anwser. I support his views majorly. A mere expression of total disgust is stated above. Whole of my family has suffered because most of my cousins have married whom they loved. Parents suffer most. Pity them.
Kersee Wadia….you asked “Have you now at-least realised the error in your thought process?”….I think you are being optimistic. The fundamental cause of all this needless bickering is that the parties involved don’t use logical thought at all. The extremist reactions are a result of unreasoning emotion and built-in prejudice. No one wants to listen to a contradictory point of view, so convinced they are of their righteousness and moral and ethnic superiority.
In my opinion, the real tragedy here is the pathetic failure of our elected “leaders” – I’m talking abot the Trustees of the BPP. Ideally, they should be be trying to effect a reasonable compromise between the opposing factions. However, far from doing that, they are fanning the flames. When no less a personage than the Chairman of the BPP leads a band of “activists” to vandalize the premises of the Zoroastrian College, or issues irresponsible press statements that he fears a law and order if this navjote is allowed to proceed, what hope is there? Till a few years ago, the very notion of Parsis creating a “law and order” situation would have been laughable, but sadly, no longer.
If the role of the BPP is purely to administer the Trust properties, that’s fine. But they seem to have set themselves up to be the moral and religious guardians for the Parsi community – and they are doing a lousy job of it.
I am sorry for my post, i have used inappropriate language and apologise for it. I support majority, my lone views are no measurement. Henceforth I will make it a point to use palatable words. A sincere request , please cease attacking after apology.
Dr. Faramroze Chyella,
Sir,
it is with immense pain that i must express my indigation at your name calling for all non- parsis..
as a hindu I have a stake in this very divisive issue as my spouse happens to be a proud parsi… I always found bawas to be amiable and tolerant and I am absolutely shocked at the derogatory terms used in describing “others”.
My suggestion is that you refrain from making such comments in a public forum. I have no problems with your description of your fellow men and woman as “dhera” but please not in public cos it reflects poorly on the community.
Apologies to all for intruding, I understand as a “parjath” I am not supposed to.
Framroze and Natasha ‘think’ by phrasing their ugly thoughts in a nice way they will camouflage the enormous hatred plaguing their hearts..That easy huh?
Hiding such darkness within your hearts and sugar-coating your racism fixes everything right? Wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late folks..
An apology just written for the sake of writing means absolutely ZERO to the persons whose morale and dignity you touched with your diabolic comments and vile thoughts..
Why should anyone’s parents be pitied for following their heart and marrying outside the community? Problems affect each and every person- one has to face them bravely. Blaming inter-religious marriages for “family sufering” is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is restricting someone to freely practise their religion.
Kudos to all persons on this forum who can rip through this charade, who can challenge this broken system. Thank you!
I urge everyone to speak up and correct this injustice every time they hear or see it- we must speak up!!
Our generation needs to fix this problem and bring back values of love, acceptanace and graciousness back into our lives.
The bigoted Doctor does not realize that in the permissive society that we live, youngsters are already experimenting with sex. What is the real guarantee that the person who is getting married within the community has not had sex with a boy friend who was of another religious belief! After all, the days of expecting the blushing bride to be a virgin have flown away into oblivion.
The doctor is right about visits to a psychiatrist. The patient, dear Doctor, is you! You are sick and your professional tratment of physiotherapy will not help to cleanse your bigoted mind. In fact, I wonder if your brain is intact.
Jamshed Irani,
You have just touched tip of the iceberg, so to say. With mushrooming fertility clinics and methods like artificial insemination, how can one guarantee that a child conceived by such methods is a pure Parsee just because the legal father and the mother are born Parsees. The ‘doctrine’ of purity is just in one’s minds. If thoughts are pure, nothing can become impure.
Irani, That was my first and last post. Check your eyesight or browse back, I have apologised. Control your thrust and forget my lines. Dear all, please avoid such dirty blame game. I would have removed my post instantly had I known how to. I request the moderator to delete my posts
If this message is from BPP about Kersy Wadia, I ask what right do they have to cast stones on Wadia and his family when their own houses and allotments are unclean. Each trustee needs to tell us where he lives, how he procured the house, source of money, current income and most importantly, why she spent so much to get elected. To say that it is community service is a lot of es aitch i tee. If they have the courage, let them individually declare these facts for all to see and evaluate. This challenge has been placed earlier. They have never dared to answer. Their only speciality is to find fault with all others who don’t agree with their contorted ancient views.
Also, I have asked earlier, if there is no dakhmo in a place where a Parsi has made his home, will his soul be damned and hang in eternal limbo near the famous mythical pul?
Dr. Faramroze has replied to my comment! Apart from posting a damaging message on which many have reacted, his village upbringing is reflected in the way he has addressed a reply to me. He starts by saying “Irani”… as if he is calling for a cup of paani kam. I had at least said Dr. when I wrote about him! Salutations, Sir, go well with apologies. These are basics that parents usually teach their children, at least in Parsi homes!
Dear all,
KHSHNAOTHRA AHURAHE MAZDAO
Some person, in the psuedo name ‘BPP’, has written made some very unkind remarks about ARZ, my brothers, and me.
On the writer’s comments about my brothers and me :
It is true that we come from “the not so rich” background. But my three brothers and I have through sheer hard work achieved what we have. Each one of us today is well set in our respective businesses/professions/occupations.
ARZ has been formed for the cause of Zoroastrianism, especially to put to an end the discrimination that is being meted out to intermarried parsi ladies.
On the writer’s statement, “Arz is robbers gang…” :
I dont quite understand the motive of the writer except that he wants to defame ARZ and all those connected with ARZ.
Ideally PARSI KHABAR should have, in accordance with their comment guidelines, edited these canards that would amount to defamation.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL
Kerssie Wadia
Disgraced to read this, cops required that too in parsi ceremonies, what level is that.
For Kerssie Wadia: I don’t see why you want to clear the tainted name of the BPP by suggesting that someone in the name of the BPP has made comments about you and your brothers. The BPP has been wasting lakhs of rupees over the years in writing and publishing articles of hatred with venom in the Afternoon and Free Press Journal, apart from the BPP Review. I believe the BPP trustees, particularly the clerk and his cook would be behind any derogatory comment that is read here and anywhere else.
It is good to know that you have all done well and are settled. ARZ cannot have the same agenda as WAPIZ and thank God for that! You should pursue your chosen path; there are many of us who agree with your stand. And remember always, when you are walking on the path of righteousness, friends don’t need explanations and enemies don’t deserve them anyway.
Dr. Faramroze Chyella,
You appear to be a novice writer on these public blogs. The rule of thumb as can be seen from most bloggers here is never mention your actual name, always use a pseudonym. This way your identity gets protected, and you can write all sorts of nasty things about those whom you may not agree with. Even after you being a gentleman submitted your apology which was anyway not required as other bloggers have put in worse remarks than yours, several bloggers here still continue to attack you. This in my opinion is unfair, but nothing can be done as moderation here is quite lenient.
Therefore may I request you to continue airing your views under a pseudonym as many bloggers here use more than one pseudonym besides writing in their actual name as can be seen from their messages. You will not get any threats of libel or defamation and can safely mention the words dubra or dhera for anyone you wish.
Dear Kerssie , Why do you even bother to reply to people who do not have the guts to write their name , also how does PK publish when a name is given as BPP ??? ARZ is doing a good job , so focus on your purpose and let people call ARZ what they want – Parsis are a bunch of hypocrites one set of rules for the men another set of rules for the women – So are our so called High Priests – they have two sets of spiritual scriptures one set for TATA and the other set for FATWA ! All their show of purity will fall flat when they stand before their maker for they will have no answers .
The comment by BPP that appeared before and referenced Kerssie Wadia and ARZ have been deleted. The oversight in approving the comment was wrong and we at Parsi Khabar apologize for the same.
Dear Arzan,
Thank you very much.
Regards,
KERSSIE WADIA
Dear Jamshed Irani,
You have apparently mixed up the post placed by ‘one highly religious minded scholar’ under a pseudonym of BPP. So, it would be unfair to attribute this to Bombay Parsee Punchayet. This ‘simple humdin’ has recently developed an habit to change his aliases every day in the false belief of misleading the readers. So this defamatory post was pulled down as it ought not to have been displayed in the first place. I am no admirer of BPP or a supporter of any Trustee but it would be unfair to blame them without reason for the act of mischief of one who otherwise messages about scared Pav Mahal ceremonies. One has to give a second thought for getting such important religious ceremonies performed by persons possessing such ‘clean’ mind.
This Mr. Irani is just by way of clarification.
Yes dear Dr. Faramroze, do write whatsoever that comes to your PURE mind by using as many aliases you choose as suggested by AZA alias BPP for he himself a master professional in this respect with vast experience in electronics.
But AZA alias BPP has not given you complete Advice. There is something called IP address to identify the name of the Person from whose Laptop or Desktop the message was sent So unless you know the tricks that AZA is professional in i.e.to using proxy server and other tricks to hide the IP address you will have an agency of Government called Cyber crime cell paying a visit to Valsad.
But who am I to stop you from calling people what you like or for that matter blindly following advice of an Engineer with a mere diploma. But since you Doctor are a fellow humdin, I consider it a duty to inform you that such laid off quack Engineers know nothing of Law and the consequences of their profane advise. If you erred no amount of Bhuntar (prayers ) can come to your rescue in this case.
The very persons who pride themselves as being responsible
for the Election Success in Punchayat Elections are now misusing the abbreviation BPP and posting offending messages in the name of BPP.
How ‘high’can such religious zealots stoop to, is unimaginable.
Type your comment here…you r absolutely right syg tat cops req. in parsis is disgusting & disgraceful.all trustees should be sacked & put behind bars for harassing their own community & preaching false values which they themselves dont follow & practice.they all r corrupt,greedy & selfish.
we look down upon them & v young ones should unite 2 do somethg better for ur community.so lets wake up & do somethin fast & throw thes chors out fr their seats
Righto Kainaaz!
At least one should applaud Dr.Faramroze that he had the honestly to express his views, however unpalatable and offensive in g his own name unlike some erstwhile ‘bold’ persons who having been disgraced and exposed inside out are now posting obnoxious messages under different fictitious names.Greatness of a religious mind lies in being graceful in accepting his/her own shortcomings rather than stooping to post their discredited views under pseudonyms to give an impression that they have ‘large’ following. Such sick minds end up deceiving themselves only.
What does koylo pigan patio mean?
What does koylo pigan patio mean?
What does koylo pigan patio mean?