Stop taking painkillers if you want to breed vultures
BNHS says Bombay Parsi Punchayet’s plans to breed vultures at Towers of Silence will not work, as the birds will die from feeding on bodies of those who have consumed diclofenac.
By Manoj R Nair / Mumbai Mirror
In fact, a member of the BNHS – which was initially involved in the breeding programme – has asked the State Forest Department not to grant permission for the project.
The BNHS had first decided to disassociate from the project in June 2007, but following recent reports that the BPP will be going ahead with it, the organisation has clarified that it wants to have no part in it.
An issue that regularly stirs up debate among Parsi-Zoroastrians is the partial breakdown of Dokhmenashini – a funeral system that relies on the sun and carrion birds to dispose of dead bodies. Though there are unverified reports of vulture sightings around the towers, the last time the birds were found in significant numbers there was more than a decade ago.
At a recent community meeting, BPP chairman Khojestee Mistree announced plans to set up an aviary in an attempt to reintroduce the birds at the towers.
“We will source them from a breeding centre and stock them in an aviary built in one of the towers,” said Mistree, adding that they were not planning to breed birds there.
“After saying in their report that the project was workable, BNHS backed out under pressure from members of our community who do not want the Dokhmenashini system to continue. We are nevertheless working towards the project,” Mistree added. The BPP plans to get between 60 and 75 birds for the towers.
BPP faces stiff opposition to breeding programme
The nation-wide decline of vultures has been linked to diclofenac – a drug used in a variety of medicines including painkillers – that causes kidney failure in birds.
“After speaking to scientists, we realised that we cannot go ahead with captive breeding because humans take diclofenac in various forms. Birds bred at the towers would die after feeding on bodies there,” said BNHS member Rishad Naoroji, a former member of the organisation’s executive committee.
Naoroji, who has suggested that the community look for alternate methods to bolster the traditional funeral method, is one of many naturalists to fiercely oppose the project.
“There is no way they are going to get permission from any State Government to breed or stock the birds. As it is, there are few of them left. We cannot take risks with the endangered bird,” he said.
Naoroji, who has written a book on raptors, has asked the BPP not to go ahead with project. He has even written to the state Forest Department to refuse permission to the BPP for captive breeding.
BNHS director Asad Rahmani has told BPP that unless the community stops using the drug, birds kept at the towers will die. “We withdrew because the BPP could not fulfil the conditions that we had set, including stopping the use of diclofenac by the community.
We are surprised that the BPP trustees have been quoted in recent newspaper reports that we are still involved. We do not want to be involved in the issue. Let them solve their problem,” said Rahmani.
Piloo,
No, nothing of that sort.
A Dakhma is a consecrated place much like our Agyaris / Atashbehrams. The consecration ceremony ensures that a spiritual fortress is developed. This explanation is quite intricate and we shall not enter into the details. Various reasons cause the Talesams to break, one of them being entry of juddins.
As regards the “trustee” entering the precinct of the Dakhma the required Nahn should be taken before and after which was not done. This is to prevent Drujih from spreading and contaminating the environment and the general public.
Farzana,
This topic was discussed in detail as a seperate Forum on UB and you are well aware of the answers. Asking the same question again several times is not going to do you any good specially so since you do not have the required “Maddo”
Farzana,
Jussawalla’s post is an admission that their coterie is NOT interested in disposing the dead body with dignity. Rather it is an admission in their own words that the cuurent practice is UNDIGNIFIED.
Her language strangely resembles the pep talk given by mad Mullahs to young men promising ‘martyrdom’ and beautiful virgins waiting for them in paradise. And these ‘intellectuals’ resent being called Talibans.
How do you guys want to be disposed ? Think fast cause your time is up ! I can see that from the crap that is spewed out on these bulletin boards. You can jump from a multistoried tower or drown in the Arabian Sea or better still just attach one of those Taliban bombs on your backside and pull the lever. Whooosh ! you will disintegrate in no time.
What a “dignified” way to dispose yourself. Why bother about Dakhmas and Aviaries and high priests. After all religion is something between you and your God…… whatever that means. Take control of your own life and do what suits you best.
I wonder if the moderator himself is ever reading this crap. You faltu bawas have no aim in life and can only spend your invaluable time in such senseless gossip.
SUGGEST YOU CHANGE YOUR NAME TO
“TRUE FRUSTRATED ZOROASTRIAN”.
WHY CORRUPT A WORD CALLED REFORMIST?
BTW WHY DO YOU READ THIS PORTAL IF YOU HAPPEN TO BE SUCH A BUSYBODY AND “VALUE YOUR TIME?
Seems this fake reformist is repaying his debt of free food provided by WAPIZ. in true WAPIZ style.
No. Im not aware of any debate on this subject, Behram… You can simple say you have no answers instead of unnecessary getting defensive.
To begin with my query was for Aban, unless you are implying that you post here on her behalf…
Next, a religion is an idea…Just as any other idea, and its open to questioning and even criticism.Censorship of questioning belief system is an outcome of your fear of doubt and your incapacity to digest opinions other than your own. And judging from the level of lavaara that you usually write …your tenacity can only be compared with Don Quixote’s determination to fight with the windmill. Good luck.
“To begin with my query was for Aban, unless you are implying that you post here on her behalf…”
This occured to you Farzana, a bit late.Read my post of 9.10 a.m. to -day regarding Proxy Posts.
As for to -day’ post of True Reformist Zoroastrian, it is hard to believe that such a blogger who wishes ill of others can at all lay claim to be called a Zoroastrian. One may differ in his/her views,may not see eye to eye with point of view of another person but to wish ill of others is unbecoming of a Zoroastrian and wonder of wonders why Rustom and Behram do not contest this REFORMIST.
Farzana,
The forum where this question was asked was started by me titled “A Simple Question”. All the participants on the forum benefited from the discussion except you since your pea sized brain could not comprehend what was being discussed.
As regards answering the question addressed to Aban, I normally dont butt in but Aban appears to be new on this forum and in my opinion should not waste her time “educating” people like you whose only intention is leg pulling.
The gutter language deployed by a person posing himself or herself as a TRUE REFORMIST ZOROASTRIAN reflects on the upbringing of this person who wants to silence debates because of his/her impaired mental ability to discuss rationally and with reason.. Such ‘curses’ are not going to deter intellectual minds from discussing issues concerning the community and Religion. Far from it,such Nazi type outbursts only reinforces the zeal of others to debate more intensely rather then silencing discourse. Nevertheless it is a sad reflection of existence of ‘Korgas’ in our community who stoop so low as to become a source of embarrassment to even hard nosed genuine Traditional orthodox.Outbursts such as this merit no applause but unequivocal condemnation.
Anti-Dhongee,
Mad am Alretard bin Mullah Omar also declares that “which have to be disposed with dignity should be allowed to make arrangements elsewhere at their own expense.” … is she trying to imply Dungerwadi is her personal property?
Ofcoz Behram, anyone who expresses opinions contrary to yours regarding religion is automatically ‘brainless’…And thats only because you have no answers to the counter queries…Your so called knowledge is so fragile that it feels threatened by any counter argument …So the next best thing you do is declare the critic brainless and fleee from the scene. Deja vu
Anyway anti dhongee, you got to know this- according to Behram, all spirits from ‘good pious’ parsis report to Ahura Mazda on planet Jupiter, all dead Xtians go to Venus, all dead hindus and buddhists report to their gods on planet Mercury and dead miyas go to Mars!!
Now we are supposed to lap this trash without questioning him… or we are ‘brainless’!!
C’mon Aban, you claim you are very knowledgeable… so why don’t you answer me?? Is there one God or many?? How can the same God approve 80 million hindus who cremate their dead but consider cremation of dead Parsis as a sin? Answer me…
Behram/Aban/True Reformist, another knowledgeable scholar from your category,,, May be you can plan a get together with him over a Chai-Biscute
http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/ … e-men.html
Video: Saudi Cleric Extols the Virtues of Allah’s Virgins in Paradise,
“They are White Women who are Menstruation-Free, Free of Feces, Urine, Phlegm”….
All knowledgeable men and women know God like they bump into him daily!! kamaal che!!
Piloo,
and this person actually started out by saying- “I am no BPP sympathizer ” …True colors surfaced faster than expected…eh!:D
Yeaaa you bet, anti-dhongee… I loved the way, real Behram butts in to praise his proxy!!
….
farzana says: November 24, 2009 at 10:06 am
<<>>
Farzana, thank you for confirming what I already said in my last post. You have not understood head or tail of what had been written on the UB forum and I attribute it to your “Maddo”. Thank you once again for strengthening my beliefs.
farzana says: November 24, 2009 at 10:06 am
all spirits from ‘good pious’ parsis report to Ahura Mazda on planet Jupiter, all dead Xtians go to Venus, all dead hindus and buddhists report to their gods on planet Mercury and dead miyas go to Mars!!
Farzana, thank you for confirming what I already said in my last post. You have not understood head or tail of what had been written on the UB forum and I attribute it to your “Maddo”. Thank you once again for strengthening my beliefs.
Poppycock monologues can not be made to appear as dialogues unless unless an e mail address is ‘lent’ by a pliable individual.
Deja vu, Behram…nothing new…everytime you can’t defend your crap you indulge in personal attacks and run away with tail between your legs.
Still no reply… to my SIMPLE question from so called ‘knowledgeables’,,, all i asked, Is there one God or many???
In the ancient times we … the Zoroastrians … gave out of reasons of charity our dead body to the vultures, so that they too could have a feast.
This was in the ancient times without chemical bombs in the bodies of the dead.
In todays days it is murder … murder to the birds … to give them bodies filled with chemicals to feast on.
Fire is clean … leaves only ashes … that’s why I recommend to let the Holy Fire touch the dead bodies from the ones we love and cherish!
Jeannie
Jeannie,
There are no Vultures left, i.e. of the bird specie in the City of Mumbai, though there are abundant “Vultures “ of a different variety, who put on Sudheh, Kusti to demonstrate their “religiousness”. Those who endlessly preached about the Aviary project assume that their earlier ranting will be forgotten. Aviary was impractical but nonetheless they argued for the sake of reading their names on this blog.
Why these ever sacrificing saviours do not want burial that is an another issue. When the corpses accumulate over each other, they are pushed down into the pits. And the pits definitely are on Land. So these established dhongis cannot claim that Land is not being ‘polluted’. The apprehension of these land shark dhongis is that once burial is permitted, the graves would remain for a long time and their dream of profiteering by selling the land in the premium locality would not see the light of the day even if their progeny became Trustees after 14 years.
Got it. These are the true colours of ‘pious orthodox’ who would like to muzzle the Media by using their money power. And they have partly succeeded since the JAME Weakly, I am told, has become a mouthpiece of BPP. I do not read it but thats the Opinion of many genuine and concerned Parsees. All the alleged irregularities earlier appearing as headlines of this ‘weakly’ have given place to all goody goody stuff. Those who subscribe to this paper, (earlier called as RAG on this blog by knowalls) say that the credibility element of the ‘Weakly’ as a News Paper is missing. In this country, people know of Emergency and the “Censorship’ of the Press in 1976. The resultant outcome is known to all. Perhaps, for our Community the History may repeat itself in the next BPP Elections.
By the way, I am posting this after Office hours. so that I too can pretend that I am reading this portal ‘after a hard day’s work’.
Jeannie,
in the ancient times, the number of deaths due to frequent battles and epidemics were higher than expected. Not everyone who had lost their loved ones had funds to buy a burial space in the limited burial grounds that was reserved for royalties and for the rich + famous of the times.
So the method of disposing the death by leaving them on the open isolated spot frequented by scavenger birds and animals was devised as the best method of solving the problem.
Again as you rightly said, the scavenger birds and animals were not exposed to the ‘chemical bombs in the bodies of the dead’ nor were people living in the industrialized cities that had scared away wild animals and birds.
So the times were different. The problems faced by the people were different and as Anti dhongi has rightly pointed out…’there are no Vultures left in cities to feed on the bodies.’ So one has to be realistic.
In fact the sole reason for the survival of Zoroastrianism for thousands of years after Zarathushtra was because Zoroastrians of the earlier times were innovative and undertook practical modifications of the religion more realistically.
Such innovations are necessary and are based on purely ‘survival of the fittest’ theory that says- One has to adapt to the changing habitat or get wiped out.
Farzana, thank you for these deep informations on us Zoroastrians and the deep insight into our ancient customs. It always is a pleasure reading what you have to say.
You are a fine lady with a sharp mind and words so well used like words should be used!
Jeannie
Thank you dear Jeannie, for the kind words.
I RECOLLECT HEARING A DHONGI TRUSTEE STATING IN A MEETING AT DPC THAT NAOROJI WAS JUST A PHOTOGRAPHER AND AVIARY WAS FEASIBLE. THEREAFTER A YEAR HAS PASSED AND THIS DHONGI TRUSTEE IS EVADING THE TOPIC OF SETTING UP OF AVIARY. WHY? HAS HE NOT FOOLED THE TRUE TRADITIONALISTS & ORTHODOX.
Again a tyranide of accusations!
So if some volunteers from Navroze Baug enter the precincts of Dakhmas, Talesams are NOT broken but if a Parsee Zoroastrian Trustee entered, Talesam was broken.
What about the entry of Pall bearers, do they undergo Nahan Ceremony each time.
Dhabhar who represents a Scholar lobby has said hereabove that entry of a Trustee ‘entering the precinct of the Dakhma the required Nahn should be taken before and after which was not done. This is to prevent Drujih from spreading and contaminating the environment and the general public.’
MY QUESTION TOI THIS SCHOLAR IS = DO THE PALL BEARERS TAKE NAHAN EVERY TIME THEY ENTER AND EXIT ? THIS QUESTION IS PERTINENT SINCE THE PALL BEARERS ALSO DOUBLE UP TO PERFORM THE JOB OF BRINGING THE CORPSE FROM HOSPITAL OR THE RESIDENCE TO THE BUNGLI.
Another question to this Scholar is are all pall bearers ‘pure’ Parsees born from parents both of them being Parsees? This question stems from Dhabhars statement hereabove that entry of juddins entails breaking of Talesam.
And yes whosover you are TRUE REFORMIST ZOROASTRIAN, you are most welcome to enlighten us with your profound knowledge of Religion.
‘