Jam-e-Jamshed: Return to the fold

With a new editor taking over Jam-e-Jamshed, the recently acquired reformist views of the 177-year-old Parsi weekly may be toned down

By Manoj R Nair / Mumbai Mirror

On Sunday, readers of Jam-e-Jamshed, a Parsi community weekly and one of the oldest newspapers in the country, were surprised at the sudden change in its editorial line.

For the last few years, the 177-year-old newspaper had been the voice of what is the ‘reformist’ section of the community. The latest subject of debate in the Parsi-Zoroastrian community has been the ban on two priests from praying for the dead at the Towers of Silence.

These priests were restricted from the cemetery by the Bombay Parsi Punchayet (BPP), the community’s apex representative body, for offering after-death prayers for members opting for non-traditional methods of funerals such as cremation and burial. The priests have also been accused of conducting Navjotes or initiation ceremonies of children with mixed parentage. A group of eminent Parsis has petitioned the Bombay High Court against the ban.

The Jam-e-Jamshed had always been critical of the ban on the priests. However, the latest edition of the paper featured articles written by orthodox priests supporting the ban. Community members said that many of them were taken by surprise at the change in the newspaper’s stance. The sudden shift in the editorial tone has been attributed to a change in the paper’s editorial leadership.

Jehangir Patel, Editor, Parsiana, a liberal weekly for the community, said, “There is bound to be a change, as the new editor is considered to have more orthodox views on community issues. Jam-e-Jamshed has always been orthodox in its views. It is only in the last decade that it had become liberal.”

Solicitor Berjis Desai, who also writes a weekly column on Parsi issues in Mumbai Samachar, another venerated community institution said, “The new editor is considered somewhat orthodox in their leanings. There will definitely be a change in the paper’s policy. One could already see the changes in the latest edition of the newspaper. The orthodox section has staged a coup of sorts by getting a person empathetic to their views to head the editorial.”

Jam-e-Jamshed’s new editor Shernaaz Engineer said that the paper had no editorial comment or article on the ban on the two priests. “However, a question recently arose – is there an established practice of “High Priests” among Parsis? A couple of readers responded via letters – which were the only letters received on the topic. To read politics into ‘Letters to the Editor’ is uncalled for. Jam-e-Jamshed will maintain a fair and balanced editorial policy,” Engineer said. “It is a 177-year-old newspaper. It has a long legacy. I would request the community elders not to turn it into a political battleground.”

During its nearly two-century-old existence, the Jam-e-Jamshed has seen changes in ownership and content. It was a daily, though now it only publishes weekly. The Gujarati-language paper now has an English section to cater to the new generation, most who do not read the community’s adopted language.

The publication is now owned by the Dubash family, believed to be liberal in their views on issues such as inter-community marriages. However, they are also not known to interfere with the editorial content of the paper.

During the 2008 polls to elect trustees to the BPP, the newspaper was a vociferous opponent of the orthodox group that eventually won the first election where all adult members could participate. While the reaction from its general readers to the sudden editorial shift has been that of surprise, orthodox leaders facing intense criticism from the newspaper are hoping for a respite.

Dinshaw Mehta, BPP Chairman said, “Jam-e-Jamshed had always been very orthodox in matters of religion. It had suddenly taken a U-turn and started propagating the reformist line. Hopefully, with the change in editorial leadership, the BPP-bashing will stop.”

  • Behram Dhabhar

    Congratulations to Shernaaz Engineer on taking up the post of Editor of Jame Jamshed. Hopefully the subscribers will now increase and we will be rid of all the bickerings and slander that filled the pages of a once popular Parsi paper. The voice of Orthodoxy will now get its rightful place and our religion, customs, traditions, priesthood and institutions will be preserved and not ridiculed.

    ARZ and AZA will now have to look for other avenues as their mouthpiece. I have heard that Jame subscriptions had hit an all time low, Parsis were unhappy at a one sided view and therefore the previous editor Rusi Dhongi had been asked to leave. This Sunday’s 17th Jan issue already has a refreshing look and we hope that the other Parsi publications like Parsiana and Mumbai Samachar also take heed.

  • Arzoo Irani

    Thank God they changed the editor appointing Shernaaz Engineer. Jame had become most boring, monotonous and isolated from the diaspora who obviously elected `orthodox’ vis a vis `liberalized’. Jame recently almost drowned in the losing battle, though it tried to keep its head up with the help of these few liberals already washed out by the masses of the orthodox.

  • lets just hope that the dirty linen becomes cleaner.. and the the one of the countries oldest newspaper house can achieve the credibility and readership it once enjoyed.

    but then again.. things have a queer way of turning about..

  • Burjor Bharucha

    The community has heaved a heavy sigh of relief at this refreshing change in the Jame Jamshed establishment. Dhondi had brought down the standard of the 170 odd year publishing house by incriminating and biased articles with a clear tilt towards reformist and anti orthodoxy. With Shernaaz Engineer at the helm of affairs at Jame we do now look forward to some educative and enlightening reading material instead of the week in and week out bickerings and controversial articles which crossed all limits to the extent of becoming sickening. Shernaaz, we welcome you with open arms and hope that while we do not expect you to be biased or anti we hope you would be fair and most importantly play a major role in bringing peace and harmony amongst fiercely divided community. Good luck and God bless.
    Burjor Bharucha.

  • Eruch Surkari

    .We Parsis are going to have to make it very very clear once and for all what religious path we wan’t to follow .It’s not a question of being Orthodox,Liberal or anywhere between.We have sincerely followed a path for centuries which I strongly beleive has stood the test of time in every
    aspect of our lives and has done us good.No Religion No Culture No Community can survive if they keep changing,modify,or alter to suit every new generation that comes up with its own ideology of how a religion should be followed, in most cases its to satisfy their own ego.

  • Hushang

    TMYZ (Traditional Mazdayasni Zarathushtis) welcomes Shernaaz Engineer and wishes her the best of luck.
    We hope and pray Parsiana and Mumbai Samachar now follow suit &……The Truth.
    Tandarosti
    tmyz@yhaoogroups.com

  • Pervez K. Avari.

    My Heartiest and Warm Welcome to Shernaz Engineer. We hope she will continue the long traditions of the brand Jam- E, and present a balanced view on all topics. Most important is to publish both sides of a debate on any subject and let the reader decide for himself. Death of Jam-E was a foregone conclusion with the type of gutter political views being dished out to the community. The Customer (reader) is King. Wiser councel has prevailed.
    Let the age old truth prevail.
    Pervez Avari.

  • piloo

    Some of the authors of post have displayed ho ‘democratic’ they are in claiming that those who differ in their views will not get an outlet of expression.That is exactly what Talibans practice – no dissent. Then why whine when they are labelled as such.To a despotic mind liberty or right to fredom of expression are an anathema. Newpapers are becoming irrelevant.
    In an era of Twitter and Facebbok, no voice can remain unheard notwithstanding all the hurdles and misutisation of money power.by self appointed ‘divine interpreters’ of our religion.

  • soli panthaky

    Type your comment here…” Thank you Amighty AHURA MAZDA, Jame under “SE” Shernaaz Engineer WILL once again win the parsee irani zarthoshty’S hearts.. Pl.add some interesting items like our past, which are saved in PARSEE PRAKASH.Pl. regulerise web site. See that over seas issues are mailed at proper post office and can be in hand of foreign readers like parsiana is doing.
    I will restart subscription which I had stoped . Late Jer Bai,Nanabhoy and Aapro ADI MARAZBAN will have their blessings on JAME and editor. YAZDAAN PANAAH BAAD

  • Jamshed Marshall

    Three Cheers to Shernaz Engineer, Hip hip Hurray !

    Gone are those days where we had to put up with the utter crap dished out by the previous editor. Even during the Parsi Punchayat elections, this paper could not give an unbiased report when it was required. All along the community was fed by a one sided myopic view. We hope our new Editor is balanced and will bring back the much needed peace and harmony back in our fragmented community.

    May God Bless Shernaz and Jame Jamshed.

  • tamo

    THANK GOD,THANK GOD,THANK GOD,THANK GOD,THANK GOD,THANK GOD,THANK GOD,THANK GOD, THAT JAME IS SAVED, ANYWAYS REFORMIST MOVEMENTS WERE ALL A BIG LIE, SAY LIKE A VIRUS WHICH WOULD HAVE DESTROYED US ALL , I AM REALLY HAPPY FOR HER TO TAKE OVER, SHE IS A VERY GOOD & A CUTE PERSON…….

  • Siloo Kapadia

    I agree with Piloo. Increasingly it seems that the Parsi ‘orthodoxy’ are in line with Taliban and other extremist organizations.

    That is a shame. It seems that the community is at the verge of a split, if, indeed, that has not occurred already. We hvae two camps: the ‘traditionalists’ – who want to keep things the same and forget the era they are living in, and the ‘modernists’ – those of us who seek growth and change while keeping within the context of our religion.

    I am increasingly of the mindset that perhaps it may be just as well at the former die out. Times have changed and they refuse to budge one inch. That is fine. This is the age of the Internet as we will continue to share news and ideas. In fact, the notion if picking up a newspaper is increasingly becoming a thing of the past. And if J-e-J is online, it will have to compete with many other more liberal Parsi sites.

    Why is it that so many Parsis are modern when it comes to dress and food but are prehistoric when it comes to everything else? Take for instance learning a language. Nearly every Parsi family I know that has children in school in the US have the take either Spanish or French. Not one has them take any Asian language. Anyone with more than half a brain can see that Mandarin and Hindi, if not also Korean and Japanese are then languages to learn for the future. In the future these same Parsis will lament that “those Chinese and HIndus have the job market all to themselves.”

    Once again, while we are putting on a modern face to the world we are so backward in our thinking. We go against the trend then scream presecution when we suffer for this mentality. Shame!

  • Rustom Jamasji

    All the best to Team Jame and the community itself..

    Team Jame though would have to learn to live with being brandished Talibanistic’ etc if it would try n strenghten zoroastrian systems by those who cannot see the difference between saving ones traditions and roots by practising it and passing it to other generations and true talibanistic behaviour of false propganda and striving to end or change by blackmailing and finding loopholes what is not liked by them…

    Yes ofcourse people practise zoroastrianism to the best of their ability in India or abroad..yet to state what is not liked or adhered to as not being zoroastrianism is maligning…

    Dhongi above comment hints at Zoroastrianism or any religion being democratic..and thus being flexible to any change or likes or dislikes…whilst that would render it away from zoroastrianism….or any subject from its core…..the gatha alone cult that negates the avesta and other texts and whose principles coincide with those who burnt our books are given a shot in the arm..

    Dhongi, the gatha alone cult etc think they have cracked the case whilst the saviours of Zoroastrianism were wrong…
    they even segregate Parsis from Zoroastrianism…which suggests that Parsism saved Zoroastrianism!!!!

    Whilst Dhongi and his clan can continue to find loopholes and excuses and nit pick…lets look towards the positive side of Jame”s new image n work towards strenghtening our systems that may have weakened..

    err Dhongi, many pay for the scholars to travel…the universities themselves at times, some instituions etc….but u again miss the point….no one is welcomed or given a honarary professors status in univ like cambridge or mainz on lines of who pays or has paid for their education…its based on ones knowledge that one gets enterance to a select club of scholars…!!!!

  • Eruch Surkari

    Your name suggests it all that you are a DHONGI anti orthodox ,in other words a fake.So who in his or her right mind is going to listen to your crap What other followers do in other parts of the world is purely their business you and your type are welcome to follow wanna be ZOROASTRIANS as you please but don’t dictate,lecture or preach any of your …Our’s is the right way to those of us who want to preserve,maintain and follow our faith .in its pristine form …THANK YOU.

  • Eruch,
    Why do you deliberartely ignore the word Anti. In your opinion I may be fake but that does not make me fake. You are at liberty to not listen to me though I do not deliver sermons. You need not read what I write on the blog. I do not compel anybody to read what I write but you are absolutely NOBODY to prevent me from voicing my views.
    BTW you have not been able to offer a reply on
    points of my earlier post viz:
    = Who pays for foreign travels of these Scholar Priests?
    =When these Scholar Priests go abroad on sponsored Lecture Tours do they insist on
    Sky burials to be followed by Jarthostis based abroad?
    I can understand your discomfort and disability to reply and discuss in a civilized manner. That is the shortcoming of all those who are dogmatic and fundamentalists.
    In any event, I was on the topic of freedom of the Press which concept would be alien to a fascist mind.

  • Zoroastrianism has opposed superstitions and change/addition of alphabets in one’s name reflects superstious nature like substituting ‘a’ for ‘u’. Such individuals are fickle minded and believe that such a change in the way their name is spelt will bring them ‘good luck’. e.g. sArkari to sUrkari. One must learn to see the realities and live as Ahura Mazda has destined.

  • K. Tamboli

    I personally feel that the minority of reformist are like poison in milk, no matter how less in amount, it can cause death, in short I mean to signal that their immature voice being heard anywhere can certainly try and brain wash our youths & can cause death to our true religion, where as orthodox are like sugar that had once in our own history given us a chance to stand up once again, given us a new home, a new hope which still stands tall. The problem with reformist is that they never spell out the real reasons, they just keep on pointing out small issues or one or the other thing that might go wrong in any religion, the main reason why these reformist ARE reformist is that their own family members being son, daughter, brother, sister or some one from their own family might have BETRAYED our religion itself by marrying an outsider, thus here emotional attachment plays a dramatical role & forcefully he might turn into a reformist, he too therefore betrays the religion, just for the sake so that their UNRULY family members who betrayed the community can also take advantage of being called Parsis.

    One can also say that the truth is the majority, in our community the same is at present, as we can observe the orthodox are in vast majority(touch wood), and till real parsis exist shall be, so why are reformist in minority, no prizes for guessing, anything that is wrong cannot gain majority at vast, no matter even if they try it for centuries to come they really can’t do that…

    Parsis are Parsis, Plz let them remain Sweet, reformist try to change things for their very own selfish motives,that is really a big sin, hopefully they will someday’s learn soon..

    Rest god bless all…

  • Lets hope as Ms. Engineer has mentioned in her article on 24-1-10 in Jam-e-jamshed “find common ground and cease the crossfire. It may not be a bad idea to attempt it”.

  • Eruch Surkari

    Hey Dhongi,…If freedom of Press means it gives voice to people like you ,then yes I am fascist .If following my faith the way it’s been practiced and preserved for centuries term’s me Orthodox then so be it .But I’ll be damned if we will ever allow you or your cultic beliefs ,in re writing of the books,so to feekle minds you can play GOD. Who pays which scholar to say what is not of concern ,what and how Zarthoshti’s practice their religion in foreign land’s is also a non issue . There are some ,or many of us who want this beautiful religion of ASHO ZARAOTHOST to be preserved and proudly practiced the way it has been in INDIA and in some respects in IRAN too.Our number’s may be diminishing ??? but till the last one standing we will always be a PROUD ZARAOTHOSTI.

    .

  • Anti Dhongidox.

    Let me make it clear that I too am a proud Zorastrian but NOT proud to be a Parsee of your level.I believe in Zoroastrianism and not Parseeism like you.
    I have nowhere suggested rewrting our religious texts. Thats your imagination running wild. What I have pointed out is how our Zoroastrian Religion is followed and practiced in places other than India, which FACT you and persons like you would like to supress.If you and your fellow thinkers believe that our Religion is being defiled in foreign lands, go and oppose it but do not expect others to stop thinking and acquiring /disseminating facts.
    Remember one thing our Religion will survive for centuries but your Parseeism will fade away in this cenury itself thanks to obstinacy of a few to adapt.
    I am not interested in endless dialogue with irrational persons and would igore your future posts addressed to me which should not be construed that I am unable to contest double standards practiced by self styled Orthodox who misrepresent the teachings of the Prophet.

  • Pervez Avari

    Phiroz, You must appreciate that the paid adv in the Free Press became absolutely essential, as Jam-E refused to print any letter/article against the views of the reformists. Whereas two penny ghost readers/authors(dont want to quote names) were given a free hand to go on writing the gutter rubbish referred to by me. Can you recall those defamatory photos of Mr Dinshaw Mehta and the slanderous pages full of filth written against him and the others? What choice was left for the Traditionalists to voice their views and to refute those allegations. They were forced to waste precious resources, which could have been gainfully employed for other community welfare activities. Yes, speaking for myself, I did smell a refreshing fragrance and aroma while reading the Free Press. One needs a long Bawa nose for that!!! (in good humour please!)
    My good friend Jehangir Patel of Parsiana with all his reformist views, atleast makes it a point to print the opposing views. If Mumbai Samachar was a stand alone community newspaper like the Jam-E, it would have suffered a similar fate. In any case, how many Parsis really subscibe to the Mumbai Samachar?

  • Pervez Avari

    Mr Anti Dhongidas,
    I have been reading your comments with interest, and would like to share a few of mine with you on the subject. To begin with it is my belief that only cowards dont have the courage of conviction to come out in the open for a debate. Since your identity is that of a Ghost Writer(name unknown), I take it you fit my above definition.
    I hope you are able to understand the difference between a Parsi and a Zoroastrian? Whereas, “Zoroastrianism” denotes Religion, “Parsi” is a Race. We came to be known as Parsis in India as a race of people who came from the land of Pars, ie Persia. A Zoroastrian is a person who claims and propheses the religion of Lord Ahura Mazda as taught by Zoroaster. Anybody, including your servant, can put on a Sadra-Kushti and claim to be a practising Zoroastrian. And believe me nobody can stop him/her from doing so. But to claim to be a Parsi one needs to be born of two Parsi parents by race. A combination of Parsis/Irani by race and religion results in a progeny who can be rightfully called a Parsi Zoroastrian or Irani Zoroastrian. The two words are inseperable for those of us descending from the Parsi and Irani Zarathustis.
    We survived for centuries in Iran and India only because of our genetics as a race combined with religion. A greater part of Parsi success in varied fields across India can be rightfully attributed to the best genetic brains combined with immense faith in our religion. A case in point is the Jews and the Aryan Germans. It is a highly noticable factthat best Doctors, Lawyers, Scientists, etc are from the priestly class where dilution of the genetics was not prevalent till recently.
    We should all be proud of being born into such a highly intectual Parsi race. Those who do not agree with the above lineage, are free to leave and practise the Zoroastrian religion as understood by them, like the Tajiks, Kurds, Russians, Brazilians, et al. Go ahead like the ARZ, and set up your own Agiaries, Cremetoriams and what not. No orthodox person will and can stop you from doing so, but please stop destroying and interfering in our age old beliefs.
    As a proud Parsi Zoroastrian, I definitely take great offence to such reformists trying to preach the traditionalists to give up their age old religion in the garb of modernity.
    To maintain peace in the community, both sides with their hard views should stop trying to convert the other thru any amount of debates/articles.

  • Mickie Sorabjee

    Parsi Khabar is a very well conceived idea by its young author ArZan and a comprehensive informative blog site for Parsees around the world. Lately, some of its readers tend to make it Mumbai-centric and whatever relevant article is posted thereon, there is a propensity by some blinkered regulars to turn it into an acrimonious cackle of over-zealous self-styled protectors of our Zoroastrian religion against a few rational commenters. Instead of reducing it to a discordant slugfest, there should be pertinent/dignified board discussions as displayed by A. Rustomjee/Anti-Dhongidox/True Orthodox Zoroastrian/Pilloo and company?
    Having said that, reverting to the original subject matter at hand___ With the abrupt change of guard at the helm, the speculation of the community over the future editorial policies of the Jame Jamshed publication is not without substance. Will unbiased editorship without conflict of interest, be achievable in a scenario where the newly appointed young editor of the community’s sole weekly also happens to be the consultant editor of the BPP Review magazine at a time when the Trustee bandwagon is crammed with majority individuals wont to flaunt their pseudo orthodox leanings which the designated young lady is known to approve?
    Time will tell if toned down liberal views in the 177 years old Parsee newspaper sees the resurgence of Mumbai Samachar’s PTA in its earlier avatar as the robust weekly platform for the reformist section of the beleaguered community. Will Mumbai Parsees witness the emergence of another weekly tabloid that will be the voice of the logically thinking community brethren, who are no less ardent followers of our Zoroastrian faith and of who there are legions.

  • Bholo Parsi

    Jyoti Basu has set a fine example of donating his body for medical research. Why cannot Parsis do that? It will be the highest form of charity and once and for all end the dokhmenashini wrangle.

  • Delnavaz

    Hi, it is indeed great news that Shernaaz has taken over as editor of Jame. I hope things improve, I will definitley start subscribing the Jame once again.
    thanks
    Delnavaz

  • Anti- Dhongidox.

    Dear Pervez Avari,
    In your reply to a blogger named Phiroz, you say that you found the language of FPJ paid advertisements ‘refreshing’.I did not approve of the campaign conducted in Jame in 2008 -09 and at the same time can not agree with your opinion about FPJ paid advertisement being refreshing. You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
    As regards your second post, of calling me a coward indirectly pleases you, then the pleasure is all yours. You may assume that I am ‘scared’ of self styled orthodox. That too is your belief. I may add that the pseudonym Anti -Dhongidox was purposely chosen by me about two years ago to rub the fake orthodox where it hurts them and exposes their double standards.It has since stuck. Moreover, I am not publicity crazy to read my own name on the blog and earn some sort of fame. My name has appeared many times in other publications.
    Though I owe you no explanation, I may add that I did become a member of TZML but due to one clause regarding belief in Dakhmaneshni, I left the same. I am personally not in favour of conversion but how do I justify my belief when I see half Parsee Chasniwallas in a Fire Temple.
    I fully concur with you that just by putting on Sudreh & Kusti no body can lay claim to be a Zoroastrian but that exactly is being done if you see workers in most Agiaries.
    Moreover how do you explain for the performance of Navjotes and Uthamna at the Tower of non Parsee corporate bigwigs?
    Is it not rank hypocrisy.?
    No one in my family is inter married but I can not accept that the mode of disposal of dead in its present state is effective. It does need a change. If for that reason, I am dubbed as a Reformist, then yes I qualify to be one.It is a myth to assume that ALL so called Reformist have some family member having has inter faith marriage.
    Last question to you. When our ancestors were in Persia, we were known as Zoroastrians not as Parsees. I can not persuade myself to believe that the community maintained the same ethnic purity in last 13 centuries. Yes I am a proud Zoroastrian but not a proud Parsee if the beliefs of Parsees are dogmatic and against the teachings of the Prophet. Those who oppose Gathas can never claim to be Zoros. If they are so opposed to Gathas then why did they not get them deleted from our Texts and why recite the First Gatha during Geh Sarna? We can go on and on.
    Despite your name calling against me I wish you regards
    Sincerely.
    ANTI -DHONGIDOX and proud to be so called.

  • Anti – Dhongidox

    Mickie,
    If you have noticed, the paper lacks material to be published. Why should some one pay Rs.5/ to read homilies and stories why Mr & Mrs XYZ named their child Behram and not Shapoor. Thats their internal family stuff which can not generate interest in an averge reader.As rightly said by some, it has all the attributes of a magazine. A vigilant press is essential for a community with vast assets but it is a tragedy that news paper supposed to keep an eye on community’s assets has been silenced as though an Emergency type situation has occured.
    Let us see it the claim of the new Editor to publish ‘balanced’ news is genuine. That will be substantiated if an article if
    die hard reformist is published and kept open for discussion. Only time will tell. As for me, I have discontinued its subscription.There are better publications to read and gain knowledge.
    Regards,

  • a.rustomjee.

    Right you are Mickey,
    Just recollecting that one Organization till few weeks back called JAME as Weakly instead of Weekly and taking advantage of the weakness now want to ride piggyback. Some ethics.
    Now coming to the Editor.
    Will this editor be able print letters questioning the Trustees about not declaring their assets as promised during elections?

    What about the waste of ancestral properties like Parsi Lying in Hospital and Godavara Agiary which has not even ten devotees a day and is funded thru sale of Well water to tankers.
    The supposed well wishers of the Community have succeeded in making it a Weakly in true sense of the term.

  • Pervez Avari

    Mr XYZ,

    Thanks for your kind words. Since you pride yourself on being called Anti-Dhongidas, and are reluctant to identify yourself, I am offering you my private e-mail(pkavari@yahoo.co.in) so that you could avoid the so called publicity of your name and identify yourself..
    I am able to read your dilema on quite a few issues, but at heart you seem to be a an orthodox who wants to rebel against the society..Countering the rest of the points raised in your reply would be an exercise in futility for both of us. As already mentioned, we are a highly intellectual community and will not accept anything at face value. Every individual thinks he is an authority on religion and wants to interprete it the way he thinks is logical. Religion is best left to the learned Priests and needs to be accepted as interpreted by these Scholars who have spent their life-time on research and learning. Religion cannot be tinkered around with, but customs and cultural issues automatically change over the centuries to meet the current environment.
    It is only when one tries to thrust his views on others that he encounters an equal and opposing force. This is simple physics.
    If the majority of the community feels that the Dokhmenashini system is failing them, then they will automatically switch over to other methods. As of today an overwhelming majority (ie 97%) of the community prefers the original system of disposal, inspite of sponsored publicity by an illiterate individual like Dhun Baria. Those against the system have a number of public Crematoriums/Burial grounds to avail of. What is the need for this miniscule minority thrust their views on the majority.
    We could go on and on, without reaching any conclusion.
    I reciprocate your sentiments with equal regards,
    Sincerely,
    Pervez Avari.(I dont need publicity to voice beliefs)

  • Anti – Dhongidox

    Dear Pervez Avari,
    I have given a reply to you at your given email address from my Mail Box.Trust you have read it.
    I hope that in future you will exercise due care before rashly using adjectives like cowards against others without knowing the reasons for that individual using a pen name.

  • Aban Jussawalla

    Dakhme Nashini is the best method of diosposal of the dead SOUL as advised by our High Priests. The other methods are good for the disposal of the dead BODY only. The four day prayers have connection with the Dakhma and the soul lying within and it is just a waste of money to spend on 4 day prayers when the frightened soul is not around the Dakhma. However out of pitty and consideration the liberals should be allowed to console themselves by just spending on 4 day prayers but only from the back door and they shoud not encourage nor force the orthodox to make such practice official.

  • aban jussawalla

    Why is my comment not in the above list?

  • piloo

    When I read posts of certain persons, it makes me wonder why the authors write as though they are in direct communication with those departed souls of Parsees whose bodies were cremated or were buried.
    Besides,the tone of the text of such posts is as if they are themselves owners of Trust property.
    As for High priests, show a flat in a upmarket Parsi Colony and they will bend their man made rules on ‘humanitarian’ considerations ‘under the burden of debt of gratitude’ or some such excuse.

  • READERS ARE ADVISED TO READ ON THE WEB “tenets.zoroastrianism.com/TheHistoryofJameJamshedFumblingtobeReborn.pdf, Particularly page 7 which represent the views of a High Priest.”

  • K. Tamboli

    I just wanted to add in a word, Had unsubscribed to Jame because of the previous immature editor’s lack of capabilities to understand issues and his vomitable views, both BAKWASS…

    As soon as I came to know that finally an professional person has taken over as the new Editor, I have decided to subscribe it again, this time hoping to get all the true parsi news as it should be..

  • Behram Dhabhar
  • Aban Jussawalla

    In my above comment, the word “disposal” is mentioned again just for comparison. It should not be taken literally. Actually it is the ” transgression” of the Soul from the Gaety to the Minoi World.

  • Meaning of the word ‘Transgression’ is violation of a law or command.

  • Religious but Rational

    Piloo,
    FYKI. Transgression also means exceeding one’s authority.

  • saf

    Pervez Avari==> “A case in point is the Jews and the Aryan Germans. It is a highly noticable factthat best Doctors, Lawyers, Scientists, etc are from the priestly class where dilution of the genetics was not prevalent till recently.”

    Any credible evidence to support your claim?

  • saf

    Pervez Avari ==> “Religion is best left to the learned Priests and needs to be accepted as interpreted by these Scholars who have spent their life-time on research and learning. ”

    Is it??

    “About your religion which is the best for all human beings…” (Y44.10 ).

    “…The Highest shall be reached by DEEDS alone.” (Y51.1).

    “…for worship indeed choose ACTS of piety…” (Y53.2).

    “…May divine wisdom…bestow blessings for DEEDS inspired by good thoughts.” (Y43.16 ).

    Are these very difficult?… Do you need a help from scholars to understand these?

  • puff

    Are these very difficult?… Do you need a help from scholars to understand these?

    No we dont, now that you are around.
    Please tell us the Avesta words for “all human beings” in Y44.10

  • Delnavaz

    I think what Aban meant was ‘transition’ of the Soul from the Gaety to the Minoi World.
    thanks

  • Delnavaz,
    One reads what appears on the blog. No one can read what the concerned author implied and meant.

  • puff

    @ saf,

    Still waiting for your reply to my question above. What are the Avesta words for “all human beings” in the quote you gave in Y44.10.

    Since you say that there is no mention of vest and girdle belt, does it mean that we who are wearing our sudreh kusti are wrong ? Please also give us an idea about what our prophet means by good mind. Whose good mind, yours or mine ? How do we determine the reference standard ? In short according to you it is mentioned in the Gathas that religion is all about what one feels is right and as per our freedom of choice we can do what we want. Why have so many religions, so many prophets, if God is one ? Any mention about that ?

    Please do enlighten us. We are so lucky to have an educated person like you in our midst.

  • Pervez Avari

    My dear friend I have done my own study before making the claim . Why dont you look around and see for yourself. You are at liberty to prove me wrong????

  • Pervez Avari

    Since you have quoted extensively from the Religeous Texts I believe you could be termed as a “Scholar”. Tell me how many practicing Zoroastrians have ever read or can quote from the Texts? This majority in our community do need help from the scholars…..

  • Pervez Avari

    Yes my friend I am around to help people who need the same. I do not claim to be a scholar myself. No words in any religion have exclusive registered rights, and so any human being in any religion is free to quote/use the same. Just as we have no exclusive rights over the words “Good Thoughts, Good Words and Good Deeds”. Virtually every religion talks of the same. Puff, Puff, >>>>>

  • Pervez Avari

    I have received Your private mail and as mutually agreed I have deliberately not replied here……

  • saf

    Puff==> “In short according to you it is mentioned in the Gathas that religion is all about what one feels is right and as per our freedom of choice we can do what we want.”

    Yes.

    Puff==> “Why have so many religions, so many prophets, if God is one ? Any mention about that ?”

    Good question… So whats your answer?

  • saf

    Your own study!! interesting!! Well, the claim is made by you… you must provide the evidence… to prove it right or wrong …not me.

  • saf

    ‘Frinemna’ is the word used in Gatha to describe humanity.

  • puff

    Y44.10 does not contain the word “Frinemna”.
    Recheck and give me the correct answer.

    As per freedom of choice are we allowed to murder, rape, steal, commit fraud etc.? what about my question on Sudreh-kusti ? Is it wrong to wear these as well ?

    Since I am learning from you, and you appear to base your arguments purely on Gathas would like you to tell me what the Gatha states about multiple religions and multiple prophets. Awaiting your answers.

  • Behram Dhabhar

    Just got time to read this long thread at leisure and feel there is much ado about nothing. In gujarati we use the phrase “Vaat ma kai dam nathi”

    As I see it on this Parsi Khabar forums there are 3 categories of bloggers. One who are neutral and will never enter into a religious debate but will just comment on general topics. The second are the Traditionals / Orthodox who quietly and peacefully follow the religion and its customs as laid down by their forefathers to the best of their abilities and defend it vociferously when it is under attack. The third are the Deformists / Liberals who will try every trick in the book to prove the traditionalists wrong and push their agenda of doing away with the long standing traditions and customs only because they themselves on account of various reasons are unable to follow them or would like to appear modern and progressive.

    Whatever be the reasons, this acrimony can very easily be avoided. All of us have heard of the proverb “Either get involved or stop criticizing the system.”

    The Deformists who are less in number and want to do things their way should sincerely work towards their goal of setting up the necessary infrastructure to get things done. This involves setting up their own institutions like clergy, temples, burial grounds, crematoriums etc and not interfere in the existing infrastructure of the Parsi / Irani Zarathushtri community. They can call themselves by whichever name they want to maintain a distinct identity. I believe groups like ARZ already are in the process of setting up such infrastructure.

    This way nobody forces their opinion on others, everyone gets their much touted “Freedom of choice” as stated in Gathas and follow whatever version of text / scripture is best suited to them. They can convert, intermarry, bury, burn, drown do what they please and there will be no one to point a finger at them.

    End of all battles.

  • Delnavaz

    hI Puff,
    I agree with your view point. India is a democracy & we have freedom, however, our freedom/behaviour is governed by the laws of our land, which is for our common good. Similarly our religion too has given us freedom, but like every other religion we need to adhere to guidelines/rules. Our prayers our Sudreh Kusti guide us in making the right choices, help fight & protect us against our own negative thoughts & those directed against us. Every religion believes in good thoughts, words & deeds & every religion has it’s own rituals, rules. Thanks

  • Religious but Rational.

    Any statistics to establish who is in majority and who is in minority. And what about those who are NOT Reformist or Deformist as called but are not gripped by rigidity and taboos?
    It is this category, who one assumes are in majority.(I repeat I assume and not claim.)
    The properties left by ancestors is not earmarked for any specific brand of Parsi Zoroastrians but for ALL practicing Zoroastrians regardless of their views.

    The last para of the post is indicative of frustration arising out of failure to silence others. An anti thesis of democratic values.
    Realism is a conviction and Rigidity is a Taboo.

  • Anti Dhongidox.

    “existing infrastructure of the Parsi / Irani Zarathushtri community’.is not a bequest left by forefathers of any blogger be it so called reformist or orthodox or fake othodox who outnumber genuine Orthodox.. Even Trustees are not owners. They hold it in Trust
    The sentence”They can convert, intermarry, bury, burn, drown do what they please and there will be no one to point a finger at them” shows how ‘peaceful’ nature of “Traditionalists”
    is
    The DISCLAIMER forgotten in a days time.

  • Anti – Dhongidox

    Puff.
    One should necessarily put on Sudreh Kusti. Sudreh, I believe is intended to guide a person on the right path. But then how would one assign reasons for Sudreh Kusti wearing Thugs who brazenly overlook priests whose children are
    inter married but adopt a different yard stick to evaluate an ordinary Zoroastrian?

  • saf

    “Give me the ‘correct’ answer” ??? HaaaHaaa… how silly you can be!!!…what makes you think i have to reply to any silly questions you put here!! And who are you to judge my replies, Mr Puff Avari??

    ‘Freedom of choice’ is based on the concept of Golden rule…and its not meant for dummies who can’t decide for themselves between good and bad. So I guess understanding Gatha is beyond your capacity…

    Gatha doesn’t say anything about multiple religions and multiple prophets… In fact it says nothing at all about ‘PROPHETHOOD’ ..
    ‘Prophethood’ is a semitic invention and its totally illogical to core … Why would an all powerful, all knowing God want to run his world using prophets? Besides all those who claimed to be God’s representatives were of questionable characters themselves like Moses or Mohammad both of who were war lords….
    It really makes me laugh when ppl call Zarathustra, a prophet. He never called himself a prophet nor did anyone around him ever referred to him as one. He was a teacher… or a guru…much like Buddha or Mahavir or Guru Nanak.

  • puff

    @ saf

    Caught you with your pants down. I knew all along that you are the biggest bluff master trying to pull a fast one on the innocent bloggers here. You even tried to bluff on a simple word not knowing that everyone here is not a dunce like you. Parsis can open the prayer book to read. While we are on this topic let me also tell you that the other two quotes you had given from the respective Yasnas do not exist.

    In future dont ever try your stunts here, or the outcome will be worse. Those who cannot recite a simple Ashem should not even attempt to translate the Gathas. When you claim Gathas do not say anything about multiple religions and multiple prophets, you are WRONG here too. But I am not here to waste my time with morons like you here. You have been exposed as an idiot beyond doubt.

  • puff

    Thank you Delnavaz. Look forward to your guidance and lucid explanation.

  • saf

    Pufff Pervez Avari here is a site for you – http://www.getlife.com

  • saf

    Anti Dhongi, never argue with idiots like Puff Pervez Avari.. they drag you to their level and onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.

  • saf

    R and R… ironically Zarathustra was a deformist ooops reformist too…and he used to call rigid Orthodox as ‘anti progressive minds’… (Angra Mainyu)… 🙂

  • saf

    Anti Dhongi, well said, i agree with you.

  • rustom jamasji

    Behram…
    On your three type of bloggers…
    Even the trads or the preservationists can come to solutions with the real reformists…You see a real reformists is the one that actually might think a different perspective is gonna help the faith/community…and if academically his/her point is refuted , then wheather its a reformist or a traditionalist…he/she would put betterment. continuation of the faith b4 everythign else….

    So for example we have many zoroastrians who are intermaried but see the truth in data collected on how intermarriage effects a small community….and also the proof that our forfathers were right when they said intermarriage wikll be one major source of concern as they will be the ones that a demand to change what they preserved will be thrust upon. Also it is from this segment that gives support to the real danger…and that are the deformists or the ones with personal agendas…

    These mascarade as reformists but are not even true to that cause…so if AZA does not like dokhmenishini, they will garner support from the intermarried to stop a zoroastrian system…
    Then the cultist like the gatha alone cult want to nullify whatever the saviours of zoroastrianism preserved and the reason zoroastrianism survives…The yasnas to everythign else except the gathas which actually interlinked to trads, rituals and other texts…this establishes what the killer of Zoroastrian priests to the ones who burnt our books wanted to achieve…
    They get their support from the intermarried…..
    Then the intermarried themselves and their offspirngs NATURALLY fuse the 3 faiths..impacting the smaler one..again a natural phenomenon…..

    So again the yasna is overshadowed with teh yagna as the zoroastrians themselevs aid in such as the geh with the namaaz and anti Zoroastrian philosophy creeps into Zroastrianism

    Then comes the puppets and pseudos that play a part that dismisses everything not liked , when given proofs, dismisses the texts..and lastly starts belittling..ex..siloo on Zoroastrians betraying Indians, or dakhmenishni as theire were no tools or there was no sudreh and kisti though there being enough evidence..and also a avestan name for a Kusti…but ignorance makes saf , Piloo, dhongi etc prach other wise…

    Yet there are many intermarried, or the ones who are men enough to say that their personal choice can an d shoudl not in any way aid people who with their ignorance, arrogance and malicious propoganda want to achieve what hoardes of macedonians, Byzantines and Islamists could not achieve in over millenias..

  • Delnavaz

    Hi,

    I wonder if Anti dhongi & Saf are actually just one person. One posts a comment & the other immediately agrees/congratulates him on his wit :))

  • Phiroz

    Hi, Delnavaz,
    I too believe in the principles of Good Thoughts/Words & Deeds. You have mentioned that each Religion has its own rules. Can you let me know the Book or any other reliable source to know these actual Rules,for our community, applicable universally,irrespective of geographical location.
    and of regardless of position, wealth, material possesions of the individual.
    Thanks.

  • Behram Dhabhar

    My Dear Zarathushtri friends,

    The objective of my post was to unite and not divide our already small community and the method to co exist was for each side to respect the views of the other and not step on each other’s toes. The solution I have provided does just that but it has been unfortunately misconstrued.

    A qustion that keeps popping up is —-> Any statistics to establish who is in majority and who is in minority.

    This has to be addressed looking at the recent historical events. Lets rewind to the year 2000 when a group of highly influential people called the DDD-AG raised their ugly head by demanding setting up of a crematorium and use of the existing bunglis for cremation at Doongerwadi. Being a group of reputed Solicitors, advocates, Doctors, CA’s their claim was they had studied the trust deed and found clauses that would force the BPP to give in to their demands. Ofcourse what was not well known is that all this drama was cooked up with connivance from some of the trustees within the Punchayat itself. The Late Rustom Tirandaz, the lion that he was, single handedly opposed this move within the BPP board room. The Orthodox were caught napping. They were disorganized and not united. DDD-AG helped the orthodox to unite and set up SDAG a group meant for preserving and strenghtening Dokhmanashini and also opposing the influential group. Once the orthodox woke up from their slumber and dispayed their wrath in public, it struck a death knell to the DDD-AG group. Not only did this group disappear into thin air but leading members of this group used the ancient system of Dokhmenashini for their own relatives and for themselves when their time came. After speaking against the system they did just the opposite. What term would you assign to such people ? Hippocracy at its best ! Now think. Would the inflential group not have taken over if they had been in majority ? The answer is obvious.

    Lets come to the year 2008. In the recent BPP elections Berjis Desai had floated a group consisting of the top brass in the community and labelled them as the AFP. These were touted as Excellent human material and Unsurpassed trustee material. We all know what happened to this “material” when the election results were announced. Why ? The opposite party, the orthodox was in majority.

    Lets now come to the present period January 14th, 2010. The Jame Jamshed which was once the bugal of the Anti orthodox now starts singing a different tune, thanks to a change of Editor. Why ? Influence of the majority reigns supreme. Gone are the days when High priests, trustees and reputed people were criticized and insulted openly without as much giving them a chance to defend themselves. Injustice prevailed for a short time when Ganamin forces ruled the roost. Now that Spenamin has taken over feel the fresh perfume that this publication emanates. I hear that Parsiana is also coming into the hands of the orthodox. Their reasoning is if you cant beat them, join them !

    So friends based on the above draw your own conclusions.

    Rustom, few of our liberal friends suggested that our prophet was the greatest reformer of all times. As such we cannot put them on the same mantle as our prophet, as it would mean insulting our prophet. So they have been assigned the adjective “Deformist” since they would like to deform what our prophet reformed.

  • puff

    Puff, have a look at this article —> http://tenets.parsizoroastrianism.com/FreedomOfChoice.pdf

    You are right about multiple religions, the words used in the Gathas are Panch Takesh = 5 religions, Panch Ratu = 5 prophets.

    About the kusti, the Avestan word is Aiwionghana

    In case you would like to learn more about our religion, you may join our online religious group and ask all your queries which will be answered by genuine religious experts. You will be required to use your actual name, which please note.

    You may write to me at behram24@yahoo.com

  • Behram Dhabhar

    There is an error in entering my name Behram Dhabhar in the Name field. The mail is addressed to puff.

    Why is my mail to Rustom not posted on the forum yet ?

  • SAF,
    Can you or any boarder inform me for my information if AZA has got into Religious issues? To the best of my
    knowledge it is engrossed in brick & mortar issues of the community. This query is being made since one who claims to be academically more intelligent has made a remark about AZA in this regard..

  • Rohinton

    I do not agree with all of the Conservative’s views but, I speak now from personal experiences only.
    Most children of the “Intermarrieds” abroad, practise TWO religions i.e. both their parents’ religions even AFTER their navjotes. After all, why would they turn away from one parent’s religion and follow only the other’s ? One such teenager constantly chides the Parsees that he/she will choose the religion where he/she is more accepted yet, continues to grab every opportunity that comes the way of Parsee/Zoroastrian kids.
    One unfortunate aspect of this situation is that the “Intermarried’s ” children’s insecurities lead them to attack, exclude and isolate the children of two-Parsee parents from community gatherings. While the children of the “Intermarrieds” may choose between two religions as and when it suits them, we, who do not pander to their whims have no recourse but to withdraw from the community, and the ONE and ONLY religion that has been practised in good times or bad, in our families for generations !! ( Living abroad with a lack of Parsees/Zoroastrians living around us, it is just not enough to practice and impart the religion to your kids at home. They need to experience a sense of the community too).
    Setting aside all arguments except for the practical, when the numbers are not there; to start accepting half- Zoroastrian and half- other religion members into the fold can only mean a faster, but more painful demise of the religion among the Parsees.(There may be a resurgence in Tajikistan,etc).
    I am fully aware that should I have a daughter who married outside the religion, I would want her and her children to be allowed to fully practise our religion. Yet , I have no illusions about what it would mean for our religion in my family’s future
    generations.
    I hope the Parsees in India have the far-sightedness to realise that this may be a situation they find themselves in, one day and that they may be unwelcome guests at their own ” community” gatherings.

  • saf

    I too wonder if Delnavaz and Puff Pervez Avari are actually just one person. One posts a comment & the other immediately agrees/congratulates him on his wit 😀

  • saf

    Behram, I tried searching credible sources on so called ‘Panch Takesh’ in Gatha… and there was nothing even remotely resembling it… So i very much doubt your source… ,

    Besides FYI there are more than 15 religions recognized by the world community and not 5 http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm

    And regarding the so called five prophets… Koran clearly says Allah had sent 2000 prophets… not 5. Now what should we believe…Tenets of Zoroastrian content or Allah? Or are you trying to tell us that Allah was lying???!!

    Anyway thank you very much now we know how credible your sources are!!

  • Anti – Dhongidox

    Do go on wondering and pondering but do not judge others by standards set up by netas of vast multitude ‘MAJORITY.’
    One can easily identify the author of certain posts, e.g. True Reformist Zoroastrian and certain specific posts in the name of Gudi.
    Asli Soorat Choopi Nahin Rahen.The style of writing speaks the name of the Original Author of such posts.

  • Anti Dhongidox.

    Wonder and ponder.
    I shall hereafter compliment you on your platitudes so that others like you will assume that author of my post is one and the same person.

  • rustom jamasji

    Another desperate cover up…of R N R.. about AZA only interested in flats…
    Many know tha pseudo organisatiosn were cropped up to sort of entangle the ones that didnt want to change Zoroastrianism and their roots,on every corner…

    Perhaps RNR Closes hs eyes to all the subtle support to Dhun Baria and open support to those who were anti dakhma but then later refuted and changed track to win elections..

    No RNR , Dhongi, Piloo, saf etc etc do not close their eyes, they constantly modify their strategies to fool others…remember the dakhma issue, ..bad for health, unhygenic, demand for a compelet shut down, then when academically prove wrong, ask for a place within the premise, then again blackmail, belittle…election time , change track once again…

    RNR n group can carry on their misinformation propoganda…and insult the common Parsis wisdom..

    @Rohinton..
    heres a simple statistics of how intermariage effects the furure…given our demographical conditions in India..and religious feelings and how others passionately continue their faith adds other catalysts to a small community dissapearing or fusing in the larger one..

    http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/will-your-grandchild-be-jewish-chart-graph.htm

  • saf

    Behram, It happens if you keep number of ids…However all three – Pervez Avari, Puff and You, have the same style of writing and hold identical views… It was not too difficult for us to guess that all three are the same person. However ironically you claimed to catch me with my pants down… and see you brought your own pants down yourself !! Kudos!!

    Well, I tried searching for ‘Panch Takesh’ in Gatha… and there was nothing even remotely resembling it.

    Next, FYI there are more than 15 religions recognized by the world community and not 5 http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm

    Now regarding the five prophets, will you plz name them… Im confused about who did you meant!!

  • Pervez Avari

    I dont need to prove anything to a faceless character. You are welcome to a personal debate, where I shall share with you my evidence. But please dont ask me for proof of the existance of God, etc. That is not meant for non belevers like you who want a Pythogaras type of proof for everything……

  • Pervez Avari

    Mr Saf, You dont appear to be that “Saf” in your choice of words. The language proves to the reader who is the idiot? Anyway , thanks for the compliment and your decision not to argue with me is running away from a good battle. What a loser !!!!!

  • Behram Dhabhar

    Saf,

    Cowards die many times before their death and according to me those who use Fake IDs and are shit scared declaring their actual identity are cowards. In case you are still guessing it refers to you and your deformist coterie.

    Each and every member of the Traditional camp has declared his / her true identity. I speak for myself. I have given my correct name, surname and my email ID in case anyone wishes to contact me. I can also meet a person if need be to a religious debate. Can anyone from the deformist group come up even half way ? People like us do not have to resort to Fake Ids to get our message across. My name also appears on various other religious forums and websites which please note

    As regards your questions, the fact that you have insulted my prophet and my religion makes me come to the conclusion that you are not a born Parsi Zarathushtri. You are here only to mock and ridicule the genuine lovers of the zoroastrian faith. Shame on you. It is a sin to discuss or teach anything vaguely connected to our religion with the likes of you. As such I will refrain form stooping to the low level that you have assigned yourself to.

  • puff

    @saf
    Blind leading the blind. Keep patting each other on their backs. Thats about the only thing you are good at. Leave the religion and its explanations to the scholars and priests.

  • saf

    You mean you have no evidence to support your claim… therefore your claim is false. Thank you for proving yourself to us once again. In your own words ‘you are caught with your pants down!’

  • saf

    Haaaa…It might be a battle for you Mr.Don Quioxite PuffPervez Avari, but for me, YOU are the source of my entertainment. Its even entertaining to see you frustrated at me for not ‘biting your bait.. haaahaaaa .. So keep it going!! 🙂 i’m lovin’ it 😀

    Anti Dhongidox, Sudreh-Kusti are pre Zoroastrian Aryan symbols. Wearing them doesn’t make anyone more zoroastrian just as not wearing them doesn’t make one less Zoroastrian.

  • saf

    Anti-Dhongi, the best part of their circus is, they write under multiple ids, fool themselves and claim to be in majority!!:D

  • saf

    (dear moderator, please delete the reply by me posted above at 12:32 pm as its a double post. Thank you]

    Haaaa…It might be a battle for you Mr.Don Quioxite PuffPervez Avari, but for me, YOU are the source of my entertainment. Its so entertaining to see you frustrated at me for not ‘biting your bait.. haaahaaaa ..
    So keep it going!! i’m lovin’ it 😀

    Anti Dhongidox, Sudreh-Kusti are pre Zoroastrian Aryan symbols. Wearing them doesn’t make anyone more zoroastrian just as not wearing them doesn’t make one less Zoroastrian.

  • saf

    Btw, im a firm believer of the GOD who sent you here as an entertainment for us.

  • It is amusing to read the self-styled Traditionalist failing to distinguish between AZA AND ARZ. But they will express their criticism neverthesless.
    Those who talk endelessly about Maddo, Jaher and Baten have displayed their high standards by their posts, few of which I have reproduced as cut paste job.

    1)”They can convert, intermarry, bury, burn, drown do what they please and there will be no one to point a finger at them”

    2) 23 November 2009 at 8:41 pm #
    “How do you guys want to be disposed ? Think fast cause your time is up ! I can see that from the crap that is spewed out on these bulletin boards. You can jump from a multistoried tower or drown in the Arabian Sea or better still just attach one of those Taliban bombs on your backside and pull the lever. Whooosh ! you will disintegrate in no time.

    What a “dignified” way to dispose yourself.”
    3) This one is so offensive that I would not like to read it. It is dated 27th ultiomo, if my memory serves me right.
    4) Calling other deformists.
    These are the ‘golden values’ inculcated in these persons.

    I may stress that this portal had asked for registration of E Mail Id’s and my registration would be on records of the portal.
    Now Ms/ Mr Puff,
    I concede that Reliigion should be left for Scholars and Priests. But have the priests acted in a uniform way in identical situations?
    Secondly, why your group does not give a categoric reply to a question raised somewher by another blogger if Dr. Antia is a Scholar or not and if he too is a High Priest or not.

  • Rohinton

    Rustom,

    Thank you for the link – I am well aware of the Jewish situation.
    One point I would like to add, is that I am sure, these very
    members of the Intermarried group abroad, DO NOT DARE to behave the way that they do in the Zoroastrian Community Centers; as when they are attending the Church, the Hindu Temple or the place of worship of their partners; irrespective of whether they are fully, or not fully accepted in that group.
    Any attempt to try to prevent a follower of their spouse’s religion from attending their spouse’s place of worship would not be tolerated by that religious group. It is only with the easy going, peace-loving Parsee/Zoroastrian group that they may contemplate and act out their their harassment and intimidation.

  • Religious but Rational

    Quoting William Shakespeare wont help.
    Ignorance remains ignorance if one refuses to learn
    It is amusing to read the self-styled Traditionalist failing to distinguish between AZA AND ARZ. But they will express their criticism neverthesless.
    Those who talk endelessly about Maddo, Jaher and Baten have displayed their high standards by their posts, few of which I have reproduced as cut paste job.

    1)”They can convert, intermarry, bury, burn, drown do what they please and there will be no one to point a finger at them”

    2) 23 November 2009 at 8:41 pm #
    “How do you guys want to be disposed ? Think fast cause your time is up ! I can see that from the crap that is spewed out on these bulletin boards. You can jump from a multistoried tower or drown in the Arabian Sea or better still just attach one of those Taliban bombs on your backside and pull the lever. Whooosh ! you will disintegrate in no time.

    What a “dignified” way to dispose yourself.”
    3) This one is so offensive that I would not like to read it. It is dated 27th ultiomo, if my memory serves me right.
    4) Calling other deformists.
    These are the ‘golden values’ inculcated in these persons.

    I may stress that this portal had asked for registration of E Mail Id’s and my registration would be on records of the portal.
    Now Ms/ Mr Puff,
    I concede that Reliigion should be left for Scholars and Priests. But have the priests acted in a uniform way in identical situations?
    Secondly, why your group does not give a categoric reply to a question raised somewher by another blogger if Dr. Antia is a Scholar or not and if he too is a High Priest or not.?

  • Anti- Dhongidox.

    I think R but R has hit the nail on the head.My compliments to him/her.for pointing out to these hypocrite the specific ‘messages’ bearing the same word “Drown’. I too am tracing such ‘excreta for thoughts’ of these scholars under various names.Why they mention their full names only in certain select messages is that they want compliments from another ‘Scholar’ so as to generate a false impression of ‘vast following’. If RJ wants to talk with BD, he can do so in Five Gardens or over the phone instead of using this platform but it is the cheap & free publicity that is the real aim.
    But SAF,
    Does this lead us anywhere? Name calling by the so called ‘Scholars’ is simply childish and reveals their ‘maturity’.
    One wiseacre says that ‘blind is leading another blind’. Let us call his contributions on the blog as ‘exchange of notions with a fictitious Id. We ought not to stoop to their level.
    Except for their hurling uncomplimentary adjectives at those who question their baseless arguments, what else can they do.Empty arguments are invariably devoid of logic. And one senile claims he provides ‘proofs’ which in reality are ‘name calling’ and another ‘genius’ calling the thinking section as deformists because such persons do not follow the crap these Scholars puke.
    Suppose any blogger mentions full name, parent’s names, address, date of birth, his/her qualifications,occupation etc, what these “Scholars ‘ are capable of doing to them? And they delude themselves in to believing that we are too scared of them. Such tactics can work in an automobile workshop.
    I repeat, Pirojsha was correct. Just ignore them. Megalomania is often accompanied with senility. And lastly dole out compliments to Delnavaz for her platitudes for ensuring better confusion.

  • True Orthodox Zoroastrian.

    Mr. Moderator,
    Moderator,
    One humble suggestion. Parsi Khabar is read even by members of sister communities. And the type of language in various messages, (mostly derogatory) only tarnishes the image of the Community. My suggestion is to impose total black out of Religious Topics so that neither side gets an opportunity to indulge in mudslinging.Only social issues may be put up.
    Again yesterday, another Religious issue “Life After death….” has been put up.
    Do we not have more pressing problems other than religious. In our case, the religion instead of uniting is causing splits and factions. Is this trend desirable.? Better discuss mundane issues than issues that cause religious divide.Pl give a thought.
    Regards.

  • Pervez Avari

    Behram/Rohinton/Delnavaz/Puff…et al,
    I fully endorse the views expressed in your replies to that faceless coward Saf. Such jokers have no fig leaf to hide their…… Not only have we caught them with their pants down but also exposed their naked falsehoods. I am thrilled to know that all of us are one and the same person. Shows the level of intelligence in these atheists who are desperately trying to kill the religion. He who laughs last is the winner…..so let us keep going at them and enjoy their discomfiture….

  • saf

    Yes, Anti Dhongi…. You are right… These magalomaniacs deserve to be ignored…
    All that i did was to point out that Koran contradicts their version of Zoroastrian text…And Behram D starts throwing tantrums!! Well… these are the types of crappy scholars we are supposed to rely on for our knowledge of religion!! At least it proves beyond doubt how fake and uninformed they really are… But interestingly that doesn’t stop them from harboring mammoth size egos in their swollen empty heads.

  • saf

    RnR…that was an awesome bout !! :)…

  • Behram Dhabhar

    Has anyone heard of Double Standards ? If not, there is a lot to learn from our Deformist friends on Parsi khabar

    If the Traditionals are called names such as Bigots, racists, Taliban, myopic, closed minds that is perfectly OK since it has come from the mouth of the “progressive and modern” thinkers. But come what may, the orthodox are supposed to keep their mouth shut and not utter a word in their defence in spite of all these expletives and adjectives. A deformist blogger has even said —>I am increasingly of the mindset that perhaps it may be just as well at the former die out. Times have changed and they refuse to budge one inch. (The former meaning the orthodox)

    I would like to ask this blogger that God forbid if the orthodox had died out, would the religion ever survive ? Would the religious institutuions ever survive ? Would the Pav Mahel which the priests have so painstakingly guarded and preserved would they have survived ?All this would be a thing of the past and there would be no religion left.

    If Rustom passes a comment to Behram or vice versa on the forum it goes against all rules, they are supposed to discuss things at five gardens (whatever that means) but if Dhongi, Anti Religious and Anti Rational, saf, Piloo, Pirojshah (one and the same ID) Silloo, True Orthodox Zoroastrian discuss and pass congratulatory messages scratching each other’s backs on the forum that is allowed and acceptable. Different strokes for different folks.

    So far the Traditionals have always been kind, courteous, peaceful and dignified in their comments and criticisms towards the deformists but the deformists on the other hand go out of their way to hurt the feelings and sentiments of the traditionals. Why they do so is anybody’s guess.

    The liberals were originally called reformists until one smart alex from the reformist camp came up with the suggestion that our prophet was also a reformist of the highest order. Following and giving due respect to his view we have decided that the liberals / reformists obviously cannot share the same level as our prophet, so have been assigned the term deformists as their main aim has been to deform what has been reformed..

  • rustom jamasji

    Dhongi..I can always talk to anyone on the phone or at any place…ofcourse since your n urs groups false mis leading information cannot cannot cut thru,me writing here must be a grave concern for you…

    Then ure groups figment of imagination statement like that Parsis betrayed India!!, Vendidad is not a zoroastrian text, that archeological evidence is not evidence at all!!!! armchair pghilosophy that Persians didnt have tools to dog n construct etc etc etc…the blame game of belittling others including scholarly priests, nitpicking and findign loo-pholes to end/change zoroastrian systems with that wisdom, and ofcourse with that wisdom, your group being divorced from reality and thus misrepresenting non conversion, not forcing anyone etc etc with talibanisation…

    And lastly tear jerking…when academically proven completely wrong…

    Dhongi…Like one dosnt become a Ghandhi by wearing a Ghandhi topi, ARZ and AZA can try and fool others and jump bandwagon and advertising strategies but their core of anti dakhma, and thrusting its demand to change on Zoroastrianism and zoroastrians is quite evident….
    As evident as ure thirst to make others wear horse blinds on others with such false campaigns..

    Just like you being a Dhongi but having a suffix contrary to it, trying to once again fool others….after all ure groups have to be the mouth piece taking over from Jame that has come back to its roots!!!

  • Dear True Orthodox Zoroastrian.

    Thanks for your note.

    Here at Parsi Khabar we try to tread a fine line between publishing news and opinion and not doing so. I agree with your concern that it does not portray the best image of us Parsis to the outside world. However in trying to safeguard this “image” I fear that we will lose the opportunity to debate and argue out points.

    There are many a comments that we need to filter and edit, and some that we don’t.

    I will try to be more stringent in what gets approved and what does not. However, not publishing opinion is not really an option that we would consider.

  • Berjis Daruwalla

    “To read politics into ‘Letters to the Editor’ is uncalled for. Jam-e-Jamshed will maintain a fair and balanced editorial policy,” Engineer said. “ What is FAIR AND BALANCED.? Propaganda on behalf of those who want to impose financial strain of Aviary week after week cannot be termed as fair and balanced unless the dictionary meaning of these two words is understood differently by the Editor and Publisher of this so called newspaper. To use the language of one Nariman in the latest issue of this newsletter, by publishing one sided views of ‘ALSO RAN’ like one Dr. Kabraji, the paper is certainly contesting for being consigned to SCRAP HEAP.
    The words in CAPITALS ARE NOT MINE BUT THOSE APPEARING IN THE LETTER OF THIS ONE NARIMAN.

  • Berjis Daruwalla

    “To read politics into ‘Letters to the Editor’ is uncalled for. Jam-e-Jamshed will maintain a fair and balanced editorial policy,” Engineer said. “ What is FAIR AND BALANCED.? Propaganda on behalf of those who want to impose financial strain of Aviary week after week cannot be termed as fair and balanced unless the dictionary meaning of these two words is understood differently by the Editor and Publisher of this so called newspaper. To use the language of one Nariman in the latest issue of this newsletter, by publishing one sided views of ‘ALSO RAN’ like one Dr. Kabraji, the paper is certainly contesting for being consigned to SCRAP HEAP.
    The words in CAPITALS ARE NOT MINE BUT THOSE APPEARING IN THE LETTER OF THIS ONE NARIMAN.

  • K. Broacha

    What a fall of standards from the days of true orthodoxy and the Editorship of Adi Marzban. It was one an institution but the fall in standards can be attributed to previous as well as current Editors catering to paid “views” disguised as news.

  • K. Broacha

    What a fall of standards from the days of true orthodoxy and the Editorship of Adi Marzban. It was one an institution but the fall in standards can be attributed to previous as well as current Editors catering to paid “views” disguised as news.

  • Rashna

    Who knows, it may change its colours once again after 2015.But what makes readers uncomfortable is its inherent tendency to economize on facts and openly taking sides.

  • Rashna

    Who knows, it may change its colours once again after 2015.But what makes readers uncomfortable is its inherent tendency to economize on facts and openly taking sides.

  • CONTRADHONGI

    Religion implies love and kindness. Can a person be said to be religious if he disowns his own progeny for reason of inter faith alliance. Atheist would be better than such a fascist.Now let us see who is in discomfiture!

  • CONTRADHONGI

    Religion implies love and kindness. Can a person be said to be religious if he disowns his own progeny for reason of inter faith alliance. Atheist would be better than such a fascist.Now let us see who is in discomfiture!

  • zerxes dordi

    THe title of this article at least now needs to be suitably changed. “RETURN TO THE FOLD is not correct because its ORIGINAL FOLD was unbiased reporting which is not the thing now.

  • zerxes dordi

    THe title of this article at least now needs to be suitably changed. “RETURN TO THE FOLD is not correct because its ORIGINAL FOLD was unbiased reporting which is not the thing now.

  • Kaio

    @TOZ. The website is Parsi Khabar. We NEED to discuss and debate the future of our community or we will definitely die out.
    With respect to “tarnishing the image of our community” I think the ship has sailed. It is more like “dragged in the mud” at this point.