Sanjan Day Celebrated amidst controversey

Below are two article on the recent Sanjan Day Celebrations.

 

Conversion issue mars Sanjan Day celebrations

Published by DNA India / Manoj R Nair

The issue of religious conversions raging in the Parsi-Zoroastrian community almost stalled the annual Sanjan Day celebrations that commemorate their arrival from Persia about 1,300 years ago.

Over a thousand Parsis had gathered on Thursday in Sanjan village on the Gujarat-Maharashtra border. The function was held around the memorial column built to mark the spot. Many had travelled from Mumbai.

Apart from members of the local Parsi community, the guests included high priests, Bombay Parsi Punchayet (BPP) trustees and DB Vaghela, the Valsad superintendent of police.

According to those present, one of the guest speakers, a prominent businessman from Ahmedabad, criticised community priests for ignoring conversions to Zoroastrianism. He is reported to have said that new converts were entering the community’s fire temples, including their most important shrine at Udwada, 30 km from Sanjan.

Dastur Khurshid Dastur, the high priest of Udwada where the holy fire brought by the Persian immigrants is enshrined, protested the statement. “He said that the high priests and their forefathers had never allowed conversions,” said Parvez Wadia, a member of Sanjan’s small Parsi community.

Dastur is reported to have walked down followed by a few other guests. The fracas ended when somebody took the mike away from the businessman. The high priest and other guests were called back before the function ended with a traditional Bhonu or feast.

Conversions to Zoroastrianism is a sensitive topic for Parsis. While some eminent Parsis from Mumbai and Pune have approached the Bombay high court to support two priests who have been banned for conducting the initiation ceremonies of children from mixed parentage, a Russian had recently filed a petition in the high court after he was stopped from becoming a Zoroastrian priest.

BPP chairman Dinshaw Mehta said, “It was an old man in his seventies who made the statement. The issue has been resolved.” But local members of the community said they were embarrassed by the incident.

 

 

 

Areez Khambhata’s remark sparked ruckus in Sanjan day function

Published in Desh Gujarat

Sanjan, 18 November, 2010

Industrialist Areez Khambhata’s remark about allowing inter-caste marriage in Parsi community sparked protest in Sanjan day function held at Sanjan today.

Khambhata talked about allowing inter-caste marriage in his speech at Sanjan day function today, which immediately sparked protest, and several Parsis rushed to the stage to stop him speaking anything further. One Parsi gentleman tried to snatch away Khambhata’s microphone. The function was disturbed for some time. Almost all Parsis present in the function showed disagreement with Khambhata’s remark.

One of the lading Parsis present in the function said, “Khambhata is known for controversial and offending remarks for long time. Our community has decided not to allow inter-caste marriage, and you saw in the function that the community members were agreed to this. Khambhata spreads wrong impression that Udavada and Iran Shah’s momeds and Dastoors support conversion and encourage it, which is completely untrue.”

  • Icchaporia.

    “It was an old man in his seventies who made the statement”
    Does not such a remark imply that whatever opinion that is expressed by an aged person is to be rubbished? Such a statement indicates that those who have crossed seventies are senile.The person who uttered such a remark has paid scant respect to an elderly person.Is tis how we are taught to treat the elderly.
    Such aspersions are offensive for a person of eminence and a highly successful entrepreneur.

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    What a bunch of lies the croud present at the function was against Mr. Areez speaking against Vada Dastoor’s and not against interfaith marriages. The desi gujarat has reported all false news. just imagine why did Mr Mehta stated “It was an old man in his seventies who made the statement. The issue has been resolved.”

    The fact that WAPIZ blinded by it money power and grip on few community institutes and sucessfully shutting down the voices of the local press, by means of take overs and buying out some others thinks they can even teach our Vada Dastoor’s a thing or two.

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    But interestingly only a single complaint against the WAPIZ page has stunned them to keep mum since last two weeks.

    KHSHNAOTHRE AHURAHE MAZDAO

  • tele

    Glad if someone could tell of the number of Parsis who came to India 1300 years ago and the numbers and dates of subsequent migrations that are noteworthy.
    Thank you.
    PS it could be the subject of an interesting article for ignorant non-parsis.

  • CONTRA-DHONGI

    When the priestly class forget their self respect and bend and bow when Ashodad Envelopes containing wads of currency notes are handed over in a farcical annual Jashan of 100 Mobeds,how do they expect to be treated with dignity by a man who believes that his money can make mares go.
    Servility before man of financial clout is the curse of our Priesly class and consequently the general laity has no sense of respect for such men of religion.Till such time our priestly class are made self sufficient and made to abjure greed,,such arrogant men with financial clout are going to humiliate them. This type of ‘event’ was long overdue.
    If the community at large wants to bury the controversies, the first thing that needs to be done is to rein in those who run WAPIZ as well as AZA.

  • Boman Patel

    Zarthustra Zarthosti,
    Will be glad if you can elaboarate about your remark that ‘single complaint against the WAPIZ page has stunned them to keep mum since last two weeks”

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    Mr. Boman Patel

    I would not want to disclose name on public domain but only provide with some details, A very brave soul has put up a complaint with The Advertising Standards Council of India (ASCI), against WAPIZ page since Free press Journal in their reply stated that it is not responsible for the ads put up in it paper. However NO ads can have a direct attack on any individual or group. Answers are demanded from WAPIZ for the same in a time limit given. Atleast now they will think twice before printing lies and mudslinging on others.

    Anyone who is affected by the WAPIZ page can also do the same for more details check this website.

    http://www.ascionline.org/
    or
    Write to – Mr. Alan Collaco, Secretary General
    The Advertising Standards Council of India,
    219, Bombay Market,
    78 Tardeo Road,
    Mumbai 400 034
    Tel: (022) 23521066/23516863,
    Fax: 23516863,
    E-mail: asci@vsnl.com

    As a policy they do not disclose the identity of the Complainant to the Advertiser

    KHSHNAOTHRE AHURAHE MAZDAO

  • Religious but Rational

    “The fracas ended when somebody took the mike away from the businessman.” from above report.
    Object lesson for the moneybags who want to dominate and impose.
    Currency notes cannot buy all individuals at all times.

  • phiroze

    Type your comment here…

  • phiroze

    WAPIZ page was printed in yesterday’s edition giving details about the Sanjan day celebrations.

  • Urvax.Motafram

    Controversy surrounded opn the topic of Parsee females married out of fold entering Fire Temples.
    Why is the idea of issuing Identity Card not being pursued. For all future Navjotes, a certificate needs to be issued. by the performing Priest..

  • barakaga

    There is no community such as “Parsi” Community. The term ‘Parseeism’ (or ‘Parsiism’) is attributed to Anquetil-Duperron and to the Portuguese. Portuguese physician Garcia d’Orta, who in 1563 observed that “there are merchants […] in the kingdom of Cambai […] known as Esparcis. We Portuguese call them Jews, but they are not so

    In which religious book is it mentioned that there are 2 classes of Zoroastrians : 1) “Parsi” and 2) “Irani”?

    Was Prophet Zarathustra a “Parsi” or an “Irani”?
    Were the Persian Emperors “Parsi” or “Irani”?
    What is so unique about the “Parsis” that they are a class of Zoroastrians unto themselves, and all other Zoroastrians were / are classified under the miscellaneous head “Irani”.

    Is there any classification of Hindus such as “Hindustani Hindu” and “Bambaiya Hindu”?
    Is there any classification of Muslims such as “Arabian Muslim” and “Mecca Muslim”?
    Is there any classification of Jews such as “Jerusalem Jew” and “Israeli Jew”?

    The birth place of prophet Zarathustra is believed to have been either of the following :
    1) Eastern Iran and/or Central Asia (to include present-day Afghanistan):
    2) Sistan (though in a much wider scope than the present-day province)
    3) Bactria (21 kms from Mazar-e-Sharif, in Afghanistan)
    4) Chorasmia / Khwarezm in Uzbekistan.
    5) The Tedzen Delta in present-day Turkmenistan
    6) Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex located in present day Turkmenistan, northern Afghanistan and Iran, southern Uzbekistan and western Tajikistan,
    7) The steppes of the former Soviet republics

    Hence by contemporary definition He is neither “Parsi” nor “Irani”,
    Prophet Zarathustra is believed to have composed the first lines of the Avesta in Chilpik, a Zoroastrian cult construction near the archealogical construction Mizdakhan, located in the lower reaches of the Amu Darya River in Uzbekistan.

  • phiroze

    Some attribute the term Parsis to those Zoroastrians having come to Sanjan from the region of Pars in Iran before the Portugese set foot in India. Some attribute it to the Farsi language. Parsis are those Zoroastrians from Pars in Iran who settled in India. Those who came as late as 1800s from Iran are termed Iranis.
    Prophet Zarathustra would be more Persian then Irani as the term understood today.

  • phiroze

    What makes us Parsis unique is that it is only in India where we have the infrastructure and qualified trained clergy who undertake higher liturgical rituals which are lost forever to the other Zoroastrians or Iranis as you call them. Why, even a simple jashan or gambhar done in India is very different from as what is done elsewhere. That is why a Russian had to come to India for his ordaining as a priest.

  • phiroze

    We are also unique in that we do not allow conversion or acceptance.

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    I want show the truth of what really happened at Sanjan. Was it the community and our Vada Dasturji’s speaking against the Interfaith married people or were they trying to fight the Biggest Ahriman of todays times. This is what money can do, not every one can handle the power of it and the lust of it does make one do the unthinkable. Now finally people have decided that enough is enough we are not going to take it lying down. One person even tried to slap the lies out of Mr. Areez Khambata. You can see it all for yourself on this link.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv9En_orwGk

    Similar episode had happened earlier whwn Mr. Khojeste Mistry has tried to create a riot like situation but commenting on the Gods (calling them deformed Gods) of other religion in Pune where he was stopped and even a FIR was to be launched unfortunately people had backed out later to launch a complaint. This time around Wapiz got the taste of the bitter medicine for start.

    KHSHNAOTHRE AHURAHE MAZDAO

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    correction in the above

    {Earlier when Mr. Khojeste Mistry has tried to create a riot like situivation by}

  • Shaimak Madon

    For a factual report of the event and what actually transpired, please watch
    you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv9En_orwGk
    ‘Parsis Protest Against Areez Khambata of WAPIZ on Sanjan Day. ‘

  • Rathestar

    WAPIZ guys often complain that the community members do not have respect for High Priests. Perhaps this behaviour of their founding member is demonstration of their usual double speak of pratice being different from what they preach. Of course as per their yardstick moneybags have different rights wheras a normal bawa has only duties to bend before a High Priest because such a priest has been classified as High by virtue of his comrade placing a woolen shawl over his shoulder.
    Different strokes for different folks, shall we say?

  • Byram Sidhwa

    My clarifications and supplementary comments on posts of one named Phiroze.
    1.phiroze 26 November 2010 at 2:57 pm #
    WAPIZ page was printed in yesterday’s edition giving details about the Sanjan day celebrations.
    MY OBSERVATION: Events that actually occurred can be seen on youtube.Please watch you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv9En_orwGk
    ‘Parsis Protest Against Areez Khambata of WAPIZ on Sanjan Day. ‘
    ===========================================

    2. phiroze 30 November 2010 at 2:58 pm #
    We are also unique in that we do not allow conversion or acceptance.
    My Comments: The Elders particularly HIGH Priests have unwritten authority to make exceptions to this “Uniqueness” including performing Uthamna ceremony of a Non Parsee and that too at Doongerwadi. In this case the premises of Doongerwadi were NOT DEFILED BUT IF PRAYERS OF A “PURE” PARSEE WHO OPTS FOR ALTERNATE METHOD OF DISPOSAL ARE RECITED THEN A HIGH PRIEST WILL THUNDER ” DOONGERWADI IS NOT ANYBODY”‘S FATHER’S PROPERTY.”

    ============================================
    3.phiroze 30 November 2010 at 2:55 pm #
    What makes us Parsis unique is that it is only in India where we have the infrastructure and qualified trained clergy who undertake higher liturgical rituals which are lost forever to the other Zoroastrians or Iranis as you call them.
    MY OBSERVATION.:
    One Panthaky of a Fire Temple in South Mumbai has to resort to ADVERTSING HIS SERVICES in the News Papers.
    And how about those Navars who have married non Zoroastrian females. Are they a part of this INFRASTRUCTURE?
    And what about some High Priest whose own progeny are married to non Zoros and are living under the same roof. Are they also a part of the infrastructure.?
    And why most of the Atash Behrams and Agiaries shut their doors before Aivishatrem Boi is offered. Is it not due to absence of infrastructure?
    THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE.

  • barakaga

    Persia not Part of the Original Listing of Vendidad Lands
    The Vendidad, and indeed the entire Avesta, does not mention Persia or Media. This was because Persia and Media became nations after the Avestan canon was closed. However, The Achaemenian Persian Kings (c. 700 – 330 BCE) repeatedly proclaimed their Aryan heritage.

    Mazda-yasni simply means God-worship, a direct translation, rather than the name of a religion.

    The word ‘mazda’ is thought by some to be related to the Sanskrit ‘medha’ meaning intelligent or wise. In usage, the word Mazda was used to mean God

    Mazda therefore can be translated as God

    First, Mazda-yasni simply means God-worship, a direct translation, rather than the name of a religion. The form and doctrine of worship before Zarathushtra was very different from that preached by Zarathushtra, just as religions today who profess a worship of God are radically different. Next, it is a common to assume that Mazda is an Avestan name for God rather than a word for God. The difference is that if Mazda is the Avestan word for God, saying that the Aryans worshipped Mazda since the time of Gayo Maretan is the same as saying that the Aryans worshipped God (a supreme God) from ancient times. Mazda, or God, could have had different names through the ages, or the word for God could have changed with a change in language. For instance, if Varuna (also see below), a principle asura in the Vedas, was the name for God (Mazda) at one stage in Aryan history, then Varuna worship could also be called Mazda worship or the worship of God.

    Both the pre- and post- Zoroastrian religions are called Mazdayasni, many authors have assumed that Zarathushtra was a reformer of a Mazdayasni religion that predated him, rather than the founder of a new religion. While Zarathushtra may have used previous concepts and while his followers may may incorporated elements of a previous religion, or religions, back in Zoroastrianism, Zarathushtra’s teachings were different enough for him to have initially experienced great difficulty in getting others to listen to him. Our section on the war of religion further illustrates the radical nature of his teachings – regardless of the words used for divinity. There are other reasons not to assume that others before him were Mazdayasni as meaning that Zarathushtra was a reformer.

    Incorporation of Pre-Zoroastrian Asuras into Mazda Worship & Zoroastrianism
    Some of the asuras such as Mitra, are included in the Zoroastrian scriptures, the Avesta, as angels (fereshtes or yazatas) and guardians of core Zoroastrian values and ideals.

    In the Avesta, the names of the yazatas are also names for core values and ideals. For instance, as an angel in the Avesta, Mithra is the guardian of the values and qualities associated with friendship. In day-to-day language, Mithra means a friend, the ideals of loyal, trustworthy, caring and kind friendship and the qualities of kindness, helpfulness and benevolence. As a core value Mithra is the value of keeping of promises.

    We do not know if the incorporation of asura worship into Mazda worship took place before or after Zarathushtra’s time. In the hymns of Zarathushtra, the Gathas, Zarathushtra does not accommodate or incorporate the asuras in the manner that we see elsewhere in the Avesta. Indeed, depending on the interpretation of the Gathas being read, Zarathushtra can be seen as preaching an uncompromising monotheism devoid of angels.

    The first royal patron of Zarathushtra’s religion was King Vishtasp. Ferdowsi’s Shahnameh tells us that King Vishtasp was king of Balkh, which at that time had become a tributary state of Turan (Sugd).

    When King Vishtasp adopted the Zoroastrian Mazdayasni faith, he also decided to stop paying tribute to King Arjasp of Turan, whereupon Arjasp gave Vishtasp an ultimatum to resume paying tribute and forsake his adopted faith, or face a devastating invasion (cf. Warner & Atkinson translations of the Shahnameh):

    Vishtasp rejected the ultimatum and what followed was the War of Religion (cf. Greater Bundahishn 9.36 and Lesser Bundahishn 12.36) in which Vishtasp was victorious.

    The conflict and Vishtasp’s victory could have resulted in the deva worshippers living in his Central Asian kingdom, leaving or being pushed south through the Hindu Kush mountain passes into the upper Indus valley (today’s Pakistan). It is possible that the Indus valley had previously been populated by deva worshippers, and that those from Central Asia migrated to join their co-religionists. The Hindu Kush (meaning Hindu Killer) would from that point, have formed a border between the Zoroastrian Mazda worshippers and the deva worshippers.

    The Indus Valley was called Hindu (later Hind or Ind) in the Avesta. The locals called the region Sindhu and then Sind. Replacing ‘h’ with ‘s’ is a common way of transforming many Avestan words to Sanskrit. The Persians eventually called the people of the region Hindi, a name that would in western parlance become Indie (India). Indians, however, refer to their country as Bharat. In addition, the name for the religion of the deva worshippers, Hindu, is also derived from the Avestan / Iranian / Persian names for the Indus region. Hindu is not a name for their religion used by the ancient Hindus. Hindus refer to their religion by various names such as Sanatana Dharma, meaning eternal law in Sanskrit, or the Vaideeha Dharma.

  • barakaga

    Asura Worship
    The Rig Veda or other Hindu religious texts do not directly mention Mazda worship or Mazda worshippers. Rather, they mention a set of deities who carry the title asura.

    The word asura is the Vedic equivalent of the Avestan ahura. Avestan words can frequently be changed to their Sanskrit equivalent by replacing h with s. Ahura is in turn said to be derived from the word ahu, meaning lord. As with the English word ‘lord’, ahu is a descriptive title for both a human lord (e.g. a feudal lord or landlord) and a divine lord. In the Avesta, God or Mazda, is sometimes addressed as Ahura (Lord) and sometimes as Ahura Mazda (Lord God). The use of the words in this manner can also be found in the Judeo-Christian Bible.

  • barakaga

    Mazda Worship
    Mazdayasni
    In the Avesta’s book of Yashts, verse 13.87 of the Farvardin Yasht mentions that Mazda, God, was worshipped by the Aryans from the time of the first Aryan king Gaya Maretan – in other words from the outset of Aryan history. This statement is corroborated by the poet Ferdowsi’s epic, the Shahnameh, and by Middle Persian Zoroastrian texts. In these texts, Gaya Maretan and his people were the first Mazdayasni meaning Mazda worshippers, the worshippers of God.

    The word ‘mazda’ is thought by some to be related to the Sanskrit ‘medha’ meaning intelligent or wise. In usage, the word Mazda was used to mean God, that is, a creator who caused creation through wisdom, indeed, through a divine thought. Mazda therefore can be translated as God.

    Paoiryo-Tkaesha
    The opening paragraphs of the Avesta’s Farvardin Yasht and the Yasht’s verse 13.150 also tell us that Gaya Maretan and the other Pre-Zoroastrian Mazdayasni were called paoiryo-tkaesha meaning keepers of the original ancient law. In order to differentiate early Mazda worship from the later Zoroastrian Mazda worship, we will call this original Aryan religion, Mazdayasni Paoiryo-Tkaesha.

    Ahura-Tkaesha
    The Farvardin Yasht’s verses 89 & 90 mention that later in Aryan history, Zarathushtra proclaimed the Ahura-tkaesha, the laws of the Lord (Ahura). If the word ‘mazda’ related to the creative aspect of the divinity grounded in an ultimate concept of wisdom, the word ‘ahura’ related to the aspect of having dominion over creation through order and laws that are innate in every part and particle of creation (cf. fravashi). Zarathushtra used these two concepts to propound a belief described as Mazdayasno Zarathushtrish Vidaevo Ahura-Tkaesho, that is, Zarathushtrian Mazda-Worship opposed to the daeva through the laws of the Lord (Ahura). For the sake of brevity, we can call Zarathushtrian Mazda-Worship (i.e. post Zarathushtra) as Mazdayasni Ahura-Tkaesha.

  • barakaga

    The myth has embedded in it, the common roots and the schism between the Aryan religious groups: the deva, asura and Mazda worshippers. It may also contain history. For instance, at the outset there are the common roots, shared history and co-existence among the groups. Next, there is the rise to dominance of the Mazda worshippers who drove the deva worshippers out of the upper and lower regions of the Aryan homeland. Later, the Mazda worshippers drove out the asura worshippers as well. Eventually, however, the deva worshippers, assisted by the asura worshippers, assembled a strong army and drove the Mazda worshippers out of Airyana Vaeja. The war of religion between the two groups may have therefore taken place in two stages, the second stage ending in the Mazda worshippers being driven out of their traditional lands. The Bundahishn 12.33 states that “They say, in the war of the religion, there was confusion among the Iranians… .”

    There is a inexplicable gap in Zoroastrian history this myth might help to fill. The gap occurs after the closing of the Avestan canon and the start of Median and Persian history (c. 800 BCE). Some reason or event caused the Zoroastrians to migrate westward out of the upper Aryan lands.

    The story is an example of how the schism between the two groups became part of Hindu scripture. Similarly, an entire book of the Avesta, the Vendidad, derives its name from Vi-dev-data, the law against the devas, that is, the law against evil.

    Post Separation Relations
    Once the two groups of Aryans had separated, the deva worshippers migrating south across the Hindu Kush mountains into the upper Indus valley, the relationship between the deva and Mazda worshippers appears to have oscillated between peaceful neighbourliness and conflict. However, when conflict did arise, it was more in the nature of kings and ruling groups seeking power (sometimes perhaps at the behest of religious advisors) than animosity between between two peoples.

    To this day, the two peoples, the Zoroastrians and Hindus, intuitively feel a certain historic kinship. When the Zoroastrians were driven out of their Iranian homeland by the Arabs, it is the Hindus of India who gave the Zoroastrians a home, and the two groups have coexisted peacefully in India for over a thousand years, each honouring the other’s freedom to maintain their religious beliefs.

    Zoroastrians owe a debt of gratitude to their Hindu cousins for having opened the doors of their land for Zoroastrians to enter not just as guests but as members of a family. Even the Zoroastrians who remained behind in Iran benefited from Indian hospitality since the Zoroastrians (the Parsees) who prospered in India were able to provide support and advocate on behalf of their Iranian brethren who were discriminated against and persecuted in the land of their ancestors.

    It is on this note: the completion of a full cycle of relations between the Aryan religious groups, that we end this chapter on Aryan heritage – a heritage that started and ended in coexistence and cooperation.

  • Dorab.

    Some time back., I tried to make my grandchildren understand the theory of being Unique in not converting or accepting in our community’s fold members born in other faiths, identically as related by Phiroze. Their question to me was if I myself considered the same as Unique. On answering it in the affirmative, I was told that whatever I said was poppycock and they felt that needed a checkup done by what they called a Brain Doctor.

  • R.Kayani.

    To call gender discrimination against inter married Paree fenales as UNIQUE is tantamount to abusing the latitude English language enables a user to twist and distort a word out of context.
    Glorifying the path to self-annihilation & self-destruction of a once prosperous community,in the mischiveous pretext of UNIQUENESS is symptomatic of minds in urgent need of resting on a couch in the office of a shrink for a few sessions. Hitler also used the same language and the same excuse to indulge in mass destruction and I find scarecely any difference in the language of spokespersons of rabid bigotism and the spokersperson of the Thirds Reich.

  • phiroze

    Byram Sidhwa,

    My comments of 26th was to expose the lies contained in zzs 2 bombastic posts on 22nd and again on 25th claiming that one single complaint from a nameless soul had scared off Wapiz from giving paid adverts for two weeks. It should have known better how things work here and besides the adverts are monthly.
    As regards the word infrastructure it pertains to everything other than people like agiaries, implements, etc.

    UNDERSTAND BEFORE YOU COMMENT !!!!

  • phiroze

    Dorab,
    I pity you that at your age you are unable to explain to your grand children convincingly why Parsis do not allow conversion or acceptance. I doubt if even a brainiest doctor could help you.

  • phiroze

    R Kayani,

    If as suggested by you we allow any gender acceptance our community will face gauranteed anihilation.

  • R.Kayani.

    If gender discrimination is to be justified, can you tell the difference between educated community like Parsees and the fundamentalists from other religions like Deoband?
    Or is it that you do not mind induction of children of Parsee father and non Parsee mothers because such persons from rural areas can be used in Fire Temples as Chasniwallas?

  • R.Kayani.

    Further are we not already at the end of the path to anihilation?. Only a myopic will deny this blatant fact.

  • phiroze

    R Kayani,

    Maybe I used the wrong word. I should have said either gender in place of any gender.

    I am all for gender equality.

  • Byram Sidhwa

    I am astonished at the contention of religious ‘expert’ Phiroze that Agiaries are not a part of Religious infrastructure. It seems that according to this ‘intellectual’, only the clergy constitute religious infrastructure. But where do the clergy conduct rituals if not in Fire Temples?
    Though he pompously rebukes two other boarders besides me, this ‘intellectual’ is obviously silent on my comment about his theory of UNIQUENESS which I reproduce once again for his benefit “The Elders particularly HIGH Priests have unwritten authority to make exceptions to this “Uniqueness” including performing Uthamna ceremony of a Non Parsee and that too at Doongerwadi. In this case the premises of Doongerwadi were NOT DEFILED BUT IF PRAYERS OF A “PURE” PARSEE WHO OPTS FOR ALTERNATE METHOD OF DISPOSAL ARE RECITED THEN A HIGH PRIEST WILL THUNDER ” DOONGERWADI IS NOT ANYBODY”‘S FATHER’S PROPERTY”
    Has he any cogent and sensible answer to this. A clear case of inability to deal with FACTS.
    Rural HeadMaster’s approach of rebuking people and getting personal is not going to silence honest expression of opinions by persons more educated than such fundamentalists, instead holes in such obsolete make believe theories handed down over the generations when the life conditions were totally different will get expose/dmagnified. One has to learn to adapt and evolve so as to live as per circumstance .But that is too high a price to expect an individual with a mental block to shell out. Such persons live in the past with inability to envisage the FUTURE.
    Let such fundamentalists know for their benefit that my getting personal against others they are exposing their own shortcoming and such personal comments will not silence honest expression of facts.

  • Dorab.

    Mr. Phiroze,
    I believe you are correct in that if Ione starts preaching sermons and start judging others by your standards, best of Psychiatrists will become patients themselves. Kayani has rightly dwelt on gender discrimination – aspect beyond comprehension of persons with fixed/set notions of superiority.

  • Shaimak Madon

    Friends,
    The ‘hallmarks’ of ‘pillars of our religion’:-
    -1. I alone am right and all others are morons;
    -2. Posts of these ovetly ‘religious’ are couched in language as fragrant as overnight garbage can.
    Not for them usage of civilised language. Pardon them for the fault lies not in themselves but their
    chawl type upbringing.
    Nothing better can be forthcoming from such ‘religious’ minded.
    The motive of one of them is to silence the dissenters by trying to embarass the dissenters with his foul language. Little does this person realise that he is now a butt of jokes and a past time.

  • phiroze

    Byram and Dorab,

    I wonder if you guys even yourselves understand what you write. Suggest you read your earlier posts before making a fool of yourselves. eg Byram read your post of 4th Dec and the second last line of the post in particular.

    As regards me not commenting on the Doongerwadi matter give the name of the non parsi and the dasturji involved. I cannot comment on things I am not aware of. Also what do you mean when you say two other “boarders” like me.

  • phiroze

    There is a clarification issued by Mr Areez Khambata in Jame Jamshed on the issue.

  • phiroze

    Friends,
    Hallmarks of “Saviour of our Religion”
    1. I am unable to use my reasoning ability, so I am proud to follow the herd mentality.
    2. Only numbers are important – More the merrier No matter how they add up
    3. I am ready to point fingers but cannot accept criticism of my faults. after all I am Gods gift to the PArsis.
    4. Only those living high towers like me can save the religion and not those in chawls. Yet I do not the difference between past time and time pass.

  • Dorab.

    Phiroze,
    From the way you write it is apparent that your reading material is confined to Jame and WAPIZ page.
    Let me tell you that like many others, I discontinued subscribing to Jame since its material consists of stale obituary columns, reading of which is any way irrelevant after a week and more so since one can access the same information every day over internet by reading the same on www. mumbaisamachar.com. There is nothing else to read in this weekly to compel me to shell out Rs.5/ each week. I am not interested in reading goody goody sermons of double dealer priests and those whose own sons and daughters are intermarried talking tall abot Tokam Kayani. Nor an I interested in Advertisements of characters from Tardeo running transport business and then deceiving the humdeens by sub contracting .
    As for your remark about Doongerwadi as mentioned by
    B Sidhwa in his post, either you are pretending to be unaware or are totally out of touch with community affairs. Since you want to know the fact, you ought to know that Uthamna of late JRD Tata was got performed at Doongerwadi. Can you tell us if the Navjote of this gentleman was ever performed and by whom.?
    Recently the BPP has resolved to insists on Affidavits of near relatives of inter married Parsee ladies . As you claim to be religious minded,you ought to know what incident occurred a few months ago at the Towers of Silence and at Hughes Road Agiary, which has caused this knee jerk andf preposterous reaction.
    Before questioning the knowledge of others, make it a point to be well informed yourself to avoid embarrassaing situation when your credibility gets doubted.

  • farzana

    //Mazda-yasni simply means God-worship, a direct translation, rather than the name of a religion.//

    barakaga, i dunno where you get your facts from… nor do i understand why you are putting them here…
    But, MAZDA YASNI translates to MAZ =Great , DA=WISDOM and YASNI=Worship…therefore it translates to worship of the Great Wisdom. And its not a name of any deity… As oppose to this, DEVA YASNI translates to Worship of (aryan) Gods …which according to Zarathushtra were ‘false and illogical’ …

    Again there is no evidence of any worship attributed to any God named ‘Mazda’ that predates Zarathushtra. Avesta was written years after Zarathushtra by his followers…based on ancient Indo-Aryan myths and fables told to them by their predecessors.
    Human civilization is 60,000 years old… Its highly absurd to believe that men who wrote Avesta just 3,000 years ago…would know about the mode of worship of a man called Gaya Maretan who lived 60,000 years ago without any shred of evidence And what is more ridiculous is people like you living in age of reason, lap it up as ‘credible’ !!

    There are ancient records of treaties signed between Aryan kings and declarations that show reverence to Gods like Indra, Mithra, Varun etc.. Yet not a single one states MAZDA… Therefore there was no MazdaYasni Religion predating Zarathushtra… it came into existence only after Zarathushtra declared DavaYasni – false…and floated his own philosophy- MAZDAYASNI based on Freedom of Choice by using reason and logic as oppose to blind faith based on religious dogmas.

    Btw, Vedic verses on Asura Medha…indeed translates to Ahura Mazda…Again this was written after the time of Zarathushtra.

    And old vedic name of Iran is ILA…

    Persian is latin for Parsu or Pasu tribes of Asura /Ahura Aryans from Central Asia very likely from Pamir [which translates to Foot of Mihir/Mithra] …not Mazda.

  • farzana

    And i just want to add, Parsism refers to set of tribal who consider their ethnicity ie being a PARSI, more important than being a Zoroastrian. Since Zoroastrianism is a religious philosophy that invites ppl from all ethnicity into its fold… and since this contradicts the beliefs of tribal cult of Parsism …therefore Parsism is different from Zoroastrianism … So which of the two are you, Mr Barak Aga?

  • farzana

    //1. I am unable to use my reasoning ability, so I am proud to follow the herd mentality.//

    HaaHaa ….look whoz talking!!

    //Only those living high towers like me can save the religion and not those in chawls. //

    But Phiroze aka Behram Dhabhar, you live in a charity block …meant for under privileged, not ppl with four wheelers like you… Now that explains why you feel so insecure about more people adding into the fold…

  • phiroze

    Dorab,
    You are mistaken that I spend money on reading these 2 publications. However, I do go thru them whenever I come across a copy just to keep myself updated on community matters. Now with internet it has become easier too.
    I appreciate your concerns about the doongerwadi issue. I for one is always of the opinion that an indiviual should have the interests of the community in mind first and foremost. Today it is more of an ego problem. Do you think Mr. JRD Tata would have wanted this? I have never heard of him ever demanding anything while he was alive inspite of the wealth at his disposal
    Nobody cares for traditions anymore and want to do as they please. The question is can the community survive this way?

  • phiroze

    Dorab,

    There is no shame in asking for clarifications and nor does someones credibility get comprised for asking questions. It is much better than making absurd statements like some do over here.
    Since you are at it please clarify the term “Boarders” used by Byram. Thanking you in advance

  • Dorab.

    Mr. Phiroze.
    How can I clarify a remark made by Byram about Boarders. I do not know him. Better seek the clarification from Byram himself. I am not a spokesperson of others.
    Now that I have clarified the matter regarding Doonderwadi as well as the Agiary at fault, you have just kept quiet.

    You have stated that “You are mistaken that I spend money on reading these 2 publications”
    I know for a facr that FPJ is distributed free.Glad to know that you get even Jame free of cost.

  • Rathestar

    Phiroze, the issue here is not whether late JRD wanted his Uthamna to be performed or not. Do not try to digress as you are stumped.
    IT REMAINS AN UNDENIABLE FACT THAT UTHAMNA OF A
    NON PARSI WAS PERFORMED AT DOONGERWADI.SO WHY THE MOBEDS WHO PERFORMED THE SAME HAVE NOT BEEN “DEFROCKED” OR BANNED IN THE SAME MANNER AS MIRZA & MADON?
    DITTO FOR THE PRIESTS WHO AUTHORIZED AND PERFORMED WADIA NAVJOTES? Was this case an ‘exception’ to what you boast of as UNIQUENESS?
    SIMPLY PUT,WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ACTIONS OF M MADON & MIRZA AND OF THOSE PRIESTS WHO PERFORMED THE WADIA NAVJOTES?
    If Madon performs Navjotes of D’Souzas, he is ‘endangering’ religion and Navjotes are ‘farcical’, but Priests who performed Wadia Navjotes are saints in the thinking of persons like you.
    Since you say that you also browse on the internet, surely you are not unaware of two contradictory letters of Dastur Kotwal doing rounds on the net in respect of Wadia Navjotes.
    The next question is why such inconsistency in stand of such High Priests.I believe you are on the FaceBook and it is there for you to read, if you are having a clear conscience and a unbiased mind.If you can not access it, let me know your E Mail Address and I will forward the same to you.In fact I thought of posting the relevant extracts from these letters here but changed my mind since enough embarassment has been caused to the person concerned.
    Yes, you are right. It is a ego problem with those who flaunt their label of orthodoxy and certainly not on the part of those who are down to earth.

  • Barak Aga

    Mr. Phiroze who followed traditions any way?
    Zarathustra rebelled against ritualism. “Parsis” have reinforced ritualism.
    Zarathustra composed his hymns in Avestan language. It is no longer used.
    In ancient Persia, Zoroastrians worshipped to the open sky, ascending mounds to light their fires.
    Is this practice followed in present times?

    The Zoroastrian cult of fire is much younger than Zoroastrianism itself and appears at approximately the same time as the shrine cult, first evident in the 4th century BCE (roughly contemporaneous with the introduction of Atar as a divinity). There is no allusion to a temple cult of fire in the Avesta proper, nor is there any old Persian language word for one. Moreover, Boyce suggests that the temple cult of fire was instituted in opposition to the image/shrine cults (an alien form of worship inherited from the Babylonians), and “no actual ruins of a fire temple have been identified from before the Parthian period” (Boyce, 1975:454).

    Did we follow tradition when we constructed Fire Temples?

  • Barak Aga

    HAREM – TRADITION.
    Succeeding Bahram III (who ruled briefly in 293), was Narseh.

    Narseh (whose name is also sometimes written as Narses or Narseus) was the seventh Sassanid King of Persia (293–302), and son of Shapur I (241–272)

    During the second encounter, Roman forces seized Narseh’s camp, his treasury, his HAREM, and his wife along with it.

    Narseh had previously sent an ambassador to Galerius to plead for the return of his WIVES and children, but Galerius had dismissed this ambassador, reminding him of how Shapur had treated Valerian.

    Phiroze, if we have to follow tradition, does it imply that the Trustees of the Bombay Parsi Punchayet will have to keep harems, just like the Persian emperors did?
    What about the female trustees of the Punchayet? Will they have to keep males in their harems?

  • phiroze

    Dorab,
    Since you refered to Byram in your post of 9Th I gussed you knew him. He has not clarified either so I thought you might. Thanks anyways.

    I have stated my thoughts in my in the first post of 10th Dec on the issue.

  • phiroze

    Rathestar,
    I have read the alleged letter and have stated my doubts about their authenticity of FB regarding the difference in signatures and style of writting of the letters.
    Even if we assume they were genuine, we should now put a stop to it. Even Dasturji had expressed his apprehensions about opening a pandora’s box and now it is time to shut and seal the box for the survival of the community.
    The ego is more on liberal side “IF TATA and WADIA can so should I. Can the community survive this way?

  • phiroze

    Barak,
    We will follow the traditions of PARSI ZOROASTRIANS OF INDIA. Those who do not like it can join your harem. Now go and start a harem with whosoever wants to join you.

  • Dorab.

    Moderrator,
    Sir,
    There appears to be some problem with your Main Page and the Column Latest Cooments. After updating itself, it is once again showing old unrevised page and the Latest Comments column showa comment of one Rathestar dated 3rd Dec.
    Main page needs updation.

  • Siloo Kapadia

    I have said it before and will say it again. Let the money be split into two parts. The first part shall be given to the BPP and the likes of Phiroze, in other words, those that want no change, believe in bigotry, and will ultimately die out. The other half should be given to the more enlightenend Parsees, the ones that will see the community live on for many more centuries. It is as simple as that. THE FORMER GROUP IS DESTINED TO BE WIPED OFF THE FACE OF THIS EARTH IN A VERY LITTLE TIME. No reason to waste our time arguing with them. Just split up the money and let us all be on our ways. It is as simple as that.

  • Rathestar

    Siloomai,
    Issue here is not sharing money, it is of infrastructure. Over a century ago, Kadmi sect and Shehnshais were at loggerheads. Separate Fire Temples were established. But today Shehnshais enter Kadmi Atashbehrams & Agiaies and so do Kadmis enter Shehnshai Fire Temples. But history has not taught Parsees lessons in expediency from this tragic past..
    What is needed is statesmanship and diplomacy to end such useless controversies but when men of straw are placed in hitherto high office and when they are unable to perform and live upto to the promises of their manifestos, the only alternative for such incompetent persons is to create such controversies to distract the attention of community members from more relevant but unattended issues. How long such diversionay tactics will work will be discernible six years from now. But the damage has been done.
    Moreover a couple of BPP Trustees have to act as puppets of the owner of a retrograde Association oipposite Metro Adlabs. That adds to the woes of this otherwise progressive community.

  • Rathestar

    To Phiroze.
    This refers to your post of the 14th in which you say you doubt the authenticity. Actually it is for the person whose signature appears on the letters to deny the same.Since Dastur Kotval has not denied these letters, they are to be presumed as authentic. As for style of language being different,it has been mentioned that the second letter was ‘authored’ by a person known for playing with words and the signatory has apparently signed on dotted lines.
    As regards your suggestion to shut and seal what you term as Pandora’s Box, there are a couple of questions.
    Firstly should this Pandora’s box supposed to be sealed till such time when another High Priests deems to open it for another tycoon?
    Secondly, according to me and many others Dasturji has set a precedent and even as per his expert opinion self navjotes can be performed.
    Thirdly how do you justify Uthamna of a ‘Parjat’ as you term it, at Doongerwadi.
    Lastly, if the Pandora’s Box as you term the issue is shut as you desire, then how does it ensure the survival of a dwindling numbers in the community?

  • Barak Aga

    Silloo Mai, the Punchayet will definitely divide the money in to 2 parts, and will keep both parts for itself.

    Wont it be a fair deal?

  • Barak Aga

    Phiroze you have stated “We will follow the traditions of PARSI ZOROASTRIANS OF INDIA”.

    So finally you admit that you are not of Iranian descent. Ahura Mazda has his own way of exposing fraudsters.

    All this while you were claiming that you are the original descendents of those who fled Persia.

    Now finally you admit that you are nothing but Indians masquerading as Iranians, just as Hitler was an Austrian, who pretended to be German and Aryan.

    You will be the first candidate in the harem, because you are yellow livered.

    Only Dasturji Madon, and an old lady Miss Meher Master Moos have had the guts to visit the Zoroastrian lands, and bring our brethren back within the fold.

    Whereas wimps like WAPIZ, the BPP Chairman, and the High Priests can only blow-hot-blow-cold in India.

    Shame on you.

  • Barak Aga

    Phiroze, here is what the Iranians think about you.

    I quote an Iranian friend of mine.

    Vafa Khalighi

    I am myself an Iranian (I mean an Iranian who have been raised up in Iran not Irani that live in India) with Zoroastrian roots.

    I agree that not accepting conversions is not the right thing to do.

    We Iranians actually accept conversions and are happy to make heaps of Zoroastrians whether they have Persian origin or not.

    You might well know that there are Iranian Zoroastrian mobeds around the world and they regularly travel to different countries to make new Zoroastrians.

    Zoroastrianism was not the first religion that my ancient ancestors had, they had the religion of “Mithraic mysteries” and they believed in several Gods.

    Later Zoroastra came and edited this to invite people to pray to one God.

    Even Inside Achaemenid Empire, all the kings before Dariush the great were not Zoroastrians but they believed in “Mithraic mysteries”.

    Parthian were not Zoroastrians at all and they were still Persians.

    So I think that mixing Zoroastrianism with Persianism does not make sense at all.

    Except the things you mentioned for Perserving Persian culture, I should add that Parsis and Iranis have been away from Persian culture for several generations and I believe that I as an Iranian have a totally different culture to a Parsi even though we both are Zoroastrians.

    I live in sydney and the number of Indian Zoroastrians is more than the number of Iranian Zoroastrians here and the funny thing is that Indian Zoroastrians do not allow conversions even Iranians can not become Zoroastrians here considering they have Zoroastrian roots and they have either to travel to Europe or US to become a Zoroastrian.

    I think this hurts the Zoroastrianity and the community a lot and makes Dissension in the community.

  • Barak Aga

    Phiroze, here is a verse from the Shahnameh quoted by my Iranian Zoroastrian friend Mr Vafa Kalighi

    Ferdoosi in Shahnameh about the belief of ancient Iranians about Fire says (In Persian):

    Niya ra hami bood aiin o kish
    parastidan izadi bood bish
    nagooii ke atash parastan bodan
    parastande pak yazdan bodand

    Translation:
    Our ancestors had religion
    They prayed to God
    do not think that They were praying to fire
    they prayed to pure God

  • phiroze

    Rathestar,
    Sorry for the delay in reply.
    1. Forever.
    2. Let the self navjotes be done. Entry to religious institutions is still not allowed
    3. Those born of both parsi parents do not become parjat till they voluntarily give up.
    4. Not my term author’s. acceptance has not worked anywhere in the world. Check with Delhi, Karachi, HK etc

  • phiroze

    barak u r welcome to your harem and pure GOD.

  • Rathestar

    Phiroze,
    You have neither the authority nor the resources to ensure that what you call as Pandora Box will remain shut for ever. It is difficult to believe that no other High Priest will nake yet another exception in future.
    Secondly, your comment “Those born of both parsi parents do not become parjat till they voluntarily give up” is read but not understood. Do you mean to say that a child born to Parsi parents becomes a Parsi and remains so throughout his/her life EVEN IF HIS/HER NAVJOT IS NOT PERFORMED.?

    I can understand your helplessness because you cannot contradict facts just by expressing your opinion. I am interested in FACTS historical and otherwise which point to double standards and your wishful thinking is no substitute for hard core facts.

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    The above letters mails were going around and got some responses. I would like to clarify that Mr. Behram Aga or Mr. Homi Dalal or Mr. Kersee Kabraji has not started this chain mail and I have and I am not one of them.

    I would like to put a few thinks clear that my intention of posting up these letters after 15 years is not to embarrass anyone, but to only bring to light some few dark hidden truths of our community leaders and other so called leaders who are on the verge of taking our community to EXITINTION what even the Islamic insurgency could not do to us in Iran. More over they do not wish to go alone but are trying to take (forcefully) all and everybody with them even our True religion.

    Only one of the unofficial spokesperson (Mr.Phiroze Panthaki) of the orthodox gpoup on the net world have raised the questions about the validity of these letters, well he can go and clarify his doubts with the undersigned of these letters. He also advises all to shut this case and not open the Pandora’s box which Dasturji Kotwal talks about in his letter ???
    I have only this to say, In Greek mythology, after Prometheus stole fire from the gods, Zeus had the first mortal woman created. She was named Pandora. She was given a box which she was not allowed to open, but she was so curious that she opened it, releasing all the evil things that are in the world, like sickness, hunger, jealousy, anger or greed, which flew out of the box. One content of the box was not evil. It was hope. Hope did not come out until the next time she opened the box, which is, the Greeks say, why evil is often ahead of hope. Opening Pandora’s box is now a metaphor for starting something bad. Pandora’s box is a jar that holds many terrible things; illness, toils, sickness, sadness, and hope. the jar is kept by Pandora and she is the only one who can open it. Dasturji Firoze Kotwal did himself open the box the first time to release the proof of his double standards and Now it is time to open this so called box once again so that HOPE is released out for the betterment of our Religion and Community.

    KHSHNAOTHRE AHURAHE MAZDAO

  • farzana

    Phiroze, Parsi is an ethnic term not religious…
    Rathestar, Phiroze believes in Edda bannee ne Pedda khaavanu…
    Barak, your harem with silloo and me in it is better educated than Phiroze’s Gay Club of inbred idiots.

  • Barak Aga

    Phiroze another uncomfortable question for you. I doubt you will have the guts or the ability to answer.

    ———————————————————————————

    Mr. Homi Ranina is a founder member of the WAPIZ.

    Not so long ago, he had formed a few companies bearing the name of Ahura Mazda.

    Mazda Enterprises Ltd.
    Mazda Leasing Ltd.
    Mazda Packaging Ltd.

    One of these / some of these companies were used by the stock market scamster Mr. Harshad Mehta, for swindling banks to the tune of crores.

    In effect Ahura Mazda’s name was sullied.

    Here are the details of those companies :

    Mazda Industries Leasing Ltd

    BSE: 511045 | NSE: MAZDALEASE | ISIN: NA
    Market Cap: [Rs.Cr.] 6 | Face Value: [Rs.] 10
    Industry: Finance & Investments

    Key Executives:

    HOMI P RANINA , Chairman <———————— WAPIZ Founder

    Kamlesh Dalal , Managing Director
    Harshad S Mehta , Deputy Chairman <——- Convicted in Securities Scandal
    Ashwin S Mehta , Director

    Company Head Office / Quarters:
    Kamruddin Indl Est Andheri (E),
    721 Sir Maturadas Vasanji Rd,
    Mumbai,
    Maharashtra-400072

    Registrars:
    Mazda Industries & Leasing Ltd
    Kamruddin Ind Estate
    721 M Vasanj Road
    Andheri (E)
    Mumbai – 400 072

    http://www.indiainfoline.com/Markets/Company/Background/Location/Mazda-Industries-Leasing-Ltd/511045

    HOW AHURA MAZDA'S NAME WAS SHAMED

    http://www.indianexpress.com/oldStory/73732/

    "…….ON trial, the prosecution pointed that the transactions — involving the bills of exchange between the bank and the Mehtas — were to siphon public funds and secure financial accommodation for their activities.

    Simply put, the bank’s funds saw their way to two firms — MAZDA INDUSTRIES and Growmore Research — both controlled by Harshad Mehta through a channel of bill of exchanges and purchase of shares."

  • Barak Aga

    Phiroz,
    Harem is where your ilk are hiding. They do not have the courage to step in to the Zoroastrian lands.

    But a humble priest, Ervad Madon, and an old lady Miss Meher Master Moos, have the spirit to do.

    Till date you have not had a response to any of the points raised by me.

  • Barak Aga

    Phiroze
    What about this?

    Mazda Industries Leasing Ltd

    BSE: 511045 | NSE: MAZDALEASE | ISIN: NA
    Market Cap: [Rs.Cr.] 6 | Face Value: [Rs.] 10
    Industry: Finance & Investments

    Key Executives:

    ——————-HOMI P RANINA , Chairman

    Kamlesh Dalal , Managing Director
    ———————-Harshad S Mehta , Deputy Chairman
    Ashwin S Mehta , Director

    Company Head Office / Quarters:
    Kamruddin Indl Est Andheri (E),
    721 Sir Maturadas Vasanji Rd,
    Mumbai,
    Maharashtra-400072

    Registrars:
    Mazda Industries & Leasing Ltd
    Kamruddin Ind Estate
    721 M Vasanj Road
    Andheri (E)
    Mumbai – 400 072

    “…….ON trial, the prosecution pointed that the transactions — involving the bills of exchange between the bank and the Mehtas — were to siphon public funds and secure financial accommodation for their activities.

    Simply put, the bank’s funds saw their way to two firms — MAZDA INDUSTRIES and Growmore Research — both controlled by Harshad Mehta through a channel of bill of exchanges and purchase of shares.”

  • Barak Aga

    Phiroze,

    What do you have to say about Ahura Mazda’s name being sullied in this manner?

    What do you have to say about the Mr. Homi P. Ranina, the founder member of WAPIZ, being the Chairman of Mazda Leasing Ltd., a company formed using the name of the most venerated figure of the Zoroastrian faith, and being used by Harshad Mehta, a man convicted for one of the biggest frauds?

    Are these the men of straw who are today posing as the defenders of the faith?

  • Barak Aga
  • Urvax.Motafram

    To make things clear about myself,by upbringing and by reading I am an extremely orthodox person with firm belief not only in traditions but more so in power of prayers. I genuinely admire person like Mr. A.Khambatta who is spending money, time and resources for our Religion and I agree with his outspokenness.
    Being a member on one of the yahoo zoroastrian groups, I received a schedule of lecture series on our prayers to be held in one Fire temple at Grant Road and in two schools next month. I am told that one of the Speakers who constantly wants to be in the limelight of ‘orthodoxy’ is sullying the word orthodoxy. What standing such “Speakers’ have to deliver sermons on our religious texts when they have certain personal information which goes against the belief system we cherish i.e. marrying within our fold.
    Can the Speakers at this forum declare that
    1.ALL of them have Parsi Zoroastrian Life Companions?
    AND that
    2.no member of their family is married inter cast?
    When persons whose family/personal life is such that it defies tenets of Vandiad, any surprise that all genuine orthodox stand to be ridiculed.
    Is there a dearth of Parsee Scholars that we allow such individuals who have skeletons in their cupboards to give sermons on our Religion? Why give Reformists a opportunity to talk of double standards and tarnish the name of authentic Orthodoxy is not understood.

  • farzana

    Super point, Barak,….very welll said

  • phiroze

    Rathestar,
    You are right, I alone may not have it but collectively we do. A navjote is only to confirm ones alliance to the religion you are born in when one attains a reasonable age ie age of reasoning and capable of making an informed choice and in turn when one becomes accountable for ones own actions. Similarly if Petterson gets his navjote, he does not become a Parsi Zarthosti and gets a right to enter our Institutions. The question is not if you know about the double standards but what you are ready to do about it

  • phiroze

    Barak,
    Homi Ranina, also built a Bungalow surrounded by a high wall behind the Agiary at Sanjan which does not have any wall or proper fencing. Why should I be answerable for him? I did not invest in any of this and neither am I a member of WAPIZ so why would I care?.

  • phiroze

    Barak,
    You are most welcome to admit Madon and Moos to your Harem.

  • Barak Aga

    Phiroze,
    You are cornered. Badly cornered.
    As usual you have no answer to the points raised by me.
    Your only responses are cheap asides.

    No one asked you to answer for Ranina.

    Since you have positioned yourself as the Defender of the Faith, a query has been put to you about WAPIZ founder Homi Ranina, using the name of AHURA MAZDA in 3 of his companies : 1) Mazda Enterprises Ltd., 2) Mazda Leasing Ltd and 3) Mazda Packaging Ltd. And at least one of these 3 entities was a front for the scamster Harshad Mehta.

    How come you do not condemn Ranina for besmirching the name of Ahura Mazda?

    If you are not answerable for Ranina sullying the name of Ahura Mazda, then you are also not sit in judgement on who is allowed to enter a fire temple and who is not.

    How come you are silent on the fact that a humble priest and an old lady have the guts to visit the Zoroastrian lands, and rekindle Zoroastrianism there, while the likes of you and WAPIZ hide in India?

  • Barak Aga

    Phiroze,
    The issue is not your membership of WAPIZ.

    The issue is your cowardly silence, and your hypocrisy.
    You are quick to pronounce judgement on others, but a big coward when it comes to those within the faith who have transgressed.

    If you did not have the courage and the moral fibre to condemn Homi Ranina of WAPIZ, for tarnishing the name of Ahura Mazda, you should not comment on “double standards”.

    Your double standards are there for all to see.

    Peterson, an honest Zarthosti has no right to enter a Fire Temple. But Homi Ranina, who misused the name of Ahura Mazda, and shamed Ahura Mazda all throughout 1992, has a right to enter the fire temple, even though the Courts of the land found “MAZDA Leasing” criminally culpable of fraud.

    If you are even ½ a man, which you are definitely not, you and the High Priests would have ex-communicated Ranina from the Zoroastrian community.

  • Rathestar

    PHIROZE YOU SAY “The question is not if you know about the double standards but what you are ready to do about it.”
    Well for a change you let everyone know your proposal to remedy double standards brazenly practiced by Priests adorning shawls to show their ‘highness’.
    @Urvax,
    I may not agree with your views but I sure do appreciate your sense of frankness in condemning persons bearing surnames of compunders and doctors hankering for cheap publicity by raising protests on issues like renovation of Fire Temples,construction of building at Godrej Baug, delivering lectures on Zoroastrianism but leading and living a life contrary to ‘tentets’ of Vendidad.

  • phiroze

    Barak,

    What Madon and Moos tried to do was against my religion and that is why they are excommunicated. What Ranina did was his business and nothing to do with religion.
    Again you are making me accoutable for your lack of understanding issues. This is what happens when you start a harem with discards for the sake of numbers. Besides since when does a Peterson Zarthosti need to go to a fire temple?. You always claim that fire temples are unzoroastrian. These are your hypocritical double standards. This is why you call yourself a parjat.

  • Barak Aga

    Phiroze,
    Madon and Moos are not excommunicated. Quite the contrary. It is the likes of you who have been excommunicated.
    Madon and Moos are well received and appreciated wherever they have gone.
    That is why you are hysterical and in a frenzy. Be it your falling numbers, your empty fire temples.

    And above all your Cowardice stands out. The humble priest and an old lady have outclassed you.
    While you sit and huff and puff in India (a “Parjat” land), they have had the courage to step in to the Zoroastrian lands to rekindle Zoroastrianism.

  • Barak Aga

    Phiroze,
    Talking of hypocritical double standards, your Fire Temple stands on “Parjat” lands, in a “Parjat” country.

    You will not let “Indians” enter your fire temple, on the grounds that their presence pollutes the fire temple.

    So hypocrite, why do you live in India, a “Parjat’ country?

    Why don’t you cowards live in Iran, and set up your fire temples in Iran?

    Phiroze, why do you write on this blog in “English” which is a “Parjat” language?
    Phiroze, why do you use the computer and the internet, both of which are “Parjat’ inventions?

  • Behram Aga

    Hello Phiroze,

    Which is your religion?
    1) The one in which one so called Vada Dastur named Kotwal converted Christians for 2 flats and Rs. 15000 a month pension for life, or

    2) the one in which one Dastur Kukadaroo who Parsis consider as a saint and who converted half parsis to Zoroastrian religion, or

    3) the one in which Late Dastur Jamaspa Asa converted one French lady and performed her wedding with JRD Tata’s father?

    I can understand your selfishness that “it is my religion”.
    But which is your religion?
    Do you know that or are you just doing “bukbuk”?

  • Barak Aga

    Phiroze,

    The Indian Constitution in a way mirrors the Zoroastrian faith.

    Just as the Zoroastrian faith says, “it is open to all”, the Indian Constitution too states that “India is open to all faiths”.

    Consider for a minute, what if the Indian Constitution was framed by someone with the mindset of the psuedo-orthodox, or the WAPIZ?

    What if the Indian constitution stated that :

    1) this country will be known as “Hindustan”.

    2) Entry in this country is restricted to “Hindus” only.

    3) Non-Hindus will be known as “Parjat”, and cannot enter Hindustan.

    4) The presence of a non-Hindu in Hindustan will be considered polluting.

    Where would you “Dhansaakiya Parsis” and your Fire Temples be?

    And suppose every country in the world had such a constitution, where would you have taken refuge.

    You yourself would be compelled to “CONVERT” to a “PARJAT” religion to survive.

  • Zerxes.Dordi

    Mr. Behram Aga,
    My sincere compliments to you. I could not have said the same any better.
    One wonders why some “traditionalist” cannot speak in terms of OUR RELIGION instead of “MY” Religion and ‘your’ Religion as though there is a TRADE MARK.

  • Rathestar

    Can any intellectual/ orthodox traditionalists reply my single question viz:
    Can a Navar Martab be elevated to position of HIGH priest even if his own progeny are married out of the faith? Should such a person NOT BE DEFROCKED to use the terminology of ‘gentlemen & ladies’ from Dhobi Talao.