Don’t Move SC Against Barred Priests, Say Some Parsis

1,150 join online petition saying Bombay Parsi Punchayet can use money to fund community activities instead of fighting another legal battle

By Sunil Baghel | DNA

An online petition gaining momentum suggests that many Parsis are against Bombay Parsi Punchayet’s (BPP) decision to approach Supreme Court against a Bombay High Court judgment, involving the ban on two community priests.

On the petition filed by former civic chief Jamsheed Kanga, businessman Homi Khushrokhan and four prominent Parsi-Zoroastrians, HC in its order on March 11 said BPP’s trust deed of 1884 did not give them power to restrain priests.

In 2009, BPP banned priests Khushru Madon and Framroze Mirza from the Towers of Silence at Malabar Hill and two BPP-managed fire temples, on three counts: for conducting Navjote ceremonies for children of women married to non-Parsis, conducting marriages where one partner was a non-Parsi, and for conducting after-death prayers for Parsis who were cremated.

BPP filed an appeal against this order in SC last week – a decision criticised by a sizeable number of Parsis in an online petition. In fact, the petition, initiated by 80-year-old Kersee Kabraji on April 5, is gaining momentum, and at last count on Thursday night was close to 1,150.

Kabraji said, “No priest would act against the community. What’s wrong if girls who marry outside the community want to retain Zoroastrianism? Why shouldn’t their children be allowed to follow Zoroastrianism? The BPP is wasting money.”

Another community member, Vispy N Wadia, said, “BPP can’t fight their case without lawyers who charge lakhs for a day’s appearance. Isn’t this a waste of money?”

The online petition says BPP spent over Rs 75 lakh for HC litigation, and that the SC case will cost over Rs 1 crore. Instead, the money could be used for higher education of the students, subsidised house rents for the needy, and financing entrepreneurs, possibly on a returnable basis.

Reacting to this development, BPP chairman Dinshaw Mehta said, “We are following the high priests’ mandate. They banned two priests and have instructed us to approach SC. I’m sure there are Parsis who will support this move."

Comments posted by online supporters:

A few prominent citizens, including Godrej Group’s chief Adi Godrej’s cousin Smita Godrej Crishna, and academic entrepreneur Dr Villoo Morawala-Patell, have supported the online petition. Here’s what some say:

Rustom K J Khambata: HC judgment is a masterpiece… Its logic fulfils the desire of Zoroastrians to practice religion without undue interference of those having no authority.

Nadir Karanjia: It’s tragic what factionalism is doing to a once great and proud people. Wake up or you will be guilty of being a leadership that squandered this communities unique advantages by infighting.

Burzis Dubash:  BPP… for once keep your political goals aside and do something constructive. Stop wasting community funds.

  • Firoze Hirjikaka

    One prominent Parsi gentleman has opined that “Parsi priests have failed in their duties”. That may well be true, but the harsh reality is that a majority of Parsis, particularly those living in Bombay, have failed in their fundamental duty as followers of Zarathustra; a philosopher and saint who preached tolerance above all things. For me personally, being a Zarathusti is a matter of pride and happiness, because I belong to a religion that does not forbid this and that (like Islam, for instance), but encourages its followers to simply adhere to the basic tenets of good thoughts, good words, good deeds – and then go out and enjoy themselves. That, in a nutshell, should be the over-riding principle and should far supersede petty issues like mumbling priests reciting incomprehensible prayers (not out of genuine conviction, but because it is a job). It also over-rides petty controversies over who can or cannot be considered a Zarathusti. Who gave these priests and self-styled “experts” that authority anyway? It is certainly not a mandate passed down by the Prophet. The true scholars of the Zarathusti religion (not necessarily Parsis) have repeatedly shown that the Gathas – recognised as the one authentic record of Zarathustra’s teachings – pay no importance to issues like conversion and proselytising, if they are mentioned at all. And yet, these “authorities” continue to divide an already dwindling community with these trivialities for no other reason than to satisfy their overweening ego. And what do the “enlightened” Parsis do? They fall right into their trap by taking sides and demeaning a community that was once renowned for their philanthropy, enterprise and staying above petty squabbles.

    Coming to the war of the factions, two particular groups that periodically invite the ire of the “Reformists” are certain Trustees of the Bombay Parsi Panchayat (BPP) and the grandiosely-named World Association of Parsi Irani Zarathustis (WAPIZ). Personally, I endorse the prevailing and unflattering opinion of these two groups held by the “Reformists”. However, I would like to respectfully submit that the frequent attacks on them are not only failing to penetrate their rhinocerous hides, but may actually prove to be counter-productive. The attacks give these worthies an opportunity to project themselves, to a distressingly large proportion of gullible Parsis, as martyrs to the “cause”, Moreover, the attacks are merely serving to inflate their already bloated egos. These gentlemen have shrewdly set themselves up as “defenders of the faith”, who are heroically deflecting the “irreligious” arrows shot at the ancient faith of Zoroastrianism by “radical free thinkers” (like me). Their insidious and self serving seeds have already found fertile ground with a majority of Parsis, who have neither the time nor inclination to try to understand the joyous and tolerant religion gifted to them by Zarathustra, but are quite content to take as gospel what they are told by their “leaders.” The best course of action would be to ignore these “saviours” with the contempt they deserve.

    The tragedy of today’s Parsis is that they expend a lot of infructuous time and energy debating matters which have no bearing on the spiritual and physical well being of the community. The important issues are virtually ignored. I have nothing against Parsis enjoying good drink, good food and sound sleep. Zoroastianism is a celebration of Ahura Mazda, after all. But if some of them have nothing constructive to contribute towards the religion, they would be doing the community a great service by shutting their collective mouths

    The enemy is not out there, my friends. He is within us.

  • Arzan

    Most of these comments are from people who have family members married out of the community and will sign the petition. What do you expect them to do? side with the BPP.
    look at the broader picture. These signatories do not even form 2% – 3% and are no where near a majority for anyone to even heed them.
    There is no harm if a parsi lady who is married out of the religion to visit the fire temple but it is not right for a son or a daughter of such a lady who has taken the surname of a non parsi husband to have a Navjote ceremony performed.
    I do not care if people agree with my viewpoint or not but bear in mind there is a consesus and by and large people agree with the logic except for those 1- 2% who will crib and blame the BPP or the high priests.They should have thought about it before taking such a step.

  • Farsak.

    “What do you expect them to do? side with the BPP.?” The concerned BPP Trustees should first do some soul searching in respect of their own family members who are married out of Religion before attempting to impose Fatwas.
    Yes, ‘These signatories do not even form 2% – 3% and are no where near a majority for anyone to even heed them.” VeIf so then why are you guys agitated if no one is going to heed them. Many sitting Trustees got elected with mandate of less than 6000 votes so going by the convoluted theory of 1 & 2%, it is a tacit admission that such Trustees do not represent the entire community!
    To assume that MOST signatories to the Petition have somebody in their family married out is a sure sign of intellectual insolvency if not dishonesty. Such propagandists and WAPIZ henchmen have survived and thrived on misinformation due to subjugation of the print media and are now agitated as the expression of free voice can no longer be curbed on the cyberspace.

  • k.tmaboli

    Perhaps if they say its some waste of money, then why on earth did they themselves go to the Bombay High Court in the first place itself, not only that, they even re-appealed!!!!
    I guess they have a harsh habit to talk something else & do something else, the community therefore should not rely on such people.

    & now they say BPP should not appeal in SC.

    Perhaps one more lame & false argument to save their very own shameless purpose.

    rest thanks to sundays.

  • Boman.

    Farsak Ors,
    Till this moment 1212 Signatures have been placed. More could have been possible but there are 2 factors.
    Age of Parsi population is 50 plus and so most are not conversant with computers and most households do not even have a Computer in their houses.
    The second attributable reason is that a large section of Parsees live in B.P.P. managed Parsi Colonies as licencees and their license may not be renewed if they dare oppose these neo Hitlers. Hence the hesitancy to express their innermost conscience.
    So any wonder one Godrej Baug resident is all praise for such fake Orthodox Trustees. No prizes for guessing.

  • Phiroze

    What the author Sunil Bhagel of DNA has reported is half truth as usual. The appeal was filed against the BPP forcing it to spend money in defending itself. The single Judge bench had ruled in the favour of BPP. The applellents filed an appeal against this order forcing BPP to spend again. Now that the HC ruling is against the wishes of majority of the PArsis, the BPP have to spend more and go to SC. It is worth spending this money so that once and for all the question of Renegade Priests and Behdins will be settled.

  • FAROKH

    I FULLY ENDORSE THE VIEWS OF THE BPP. SIR, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AND FIGHT TO THE END SO THAT IT SETS AN EXAMPLE FOR THE OTHERS. I PRAY FOR A FAVORABLE JUDGMENT.

  • Arzan J. Ghadially

    Dear Boman – I laughed my guts out when i read that parsees over 50 have no knowledge of comPuters and the other reason is parsees living in colonies feel that if BBP will cancel their leave and licence if they come to know they have signed the petition. HA HA HA. Earlier i doubted the intelligence of the signatories but NOW I AM SURE after reading your absurd and ridiculious post. Can the BPP actually cancel the leave and licence of residents who have been living in BPP colonies since decades? Utter Nonsense.
    An idle mind is a devils workshop.

  • Behroze.

    Right Boman. There does exists a fear when one opposes his or her Landlords.
    Actually we must make an effort to find out the residential address of those who are egging B.P.P. to go ahead and spend money on litigation.. Most likely they are tenants of some B.P.P. carrying out the command of some godfather Trustee.

  • Dorab.

    CHALO THORU HASIYE.
    The standards of ‘Orthodoxy’ in our Religion strangely resembles the game of Cricket as played during the
    pre independence days. There are stories that whenever a Maharaja or a Prince was playing Cricket as a Batsman, if he got out, the poor field Umpire dare not raise his finger, instead declare the bowl as NO BALL. There were no T.V. Cameras.those days
    Same thing with our great Orthodox.
    If a “High”Priest performs a Navjote of a Parjaat and that too in the sunset years of latters life, the High Priest is NOT OUT.
    Ditto if these Highnesses perform sacraments for a
    non Parsee as Uthamna at the Towers. But the same ‘High’ Priests acting as Umpires will declare ‘Low Priests’ OUT in more ways than one. STUMPED & CAUGHT BEHIND FOR IDENTICAL “FAULTS”.
    These Highnesses have Courtiers too, residing in B.P.P. flats including Trustees who too are beneficiaries of the Trust as they too reside in B.P.P. owned Buildings. The latter consider themselves as ‘democratically elected’ Maharajas like our Ministers.
    WHO SAYS THEIR HIGHNESSES HAVE NO SENSE OF HUMOR.!!! ITS HUMOR HIGHNESS STYLE.

  • Boman.

    Arzan Ghadially,
    Thank u for ‘doubting my intelligence level’ I do not believe in returning such banters. On the one hand you yourself complain that persons here get personal. Have you been any different yourself?
    Does BPP not require RENEWAL of L/L Agreements. If you are not required to renew yours at specified intervals, lets say your are special and no prizes for guessing, you being so outspoken on behalf of the Trustees.

  • Arzan

    Dear Boman – Let me clarify once again.i am not doubting your intellegence. I am sure about it Read my post. I have mentioned people get personal and force others to react. Pl read your post is it polite in any manner? Should i keep quiet while you badmouth others..Are you not getting personal. What you sow so shall you reap. In no parsi colony do people have to renew their L/L agreements after regular intervel. This has started only after 96 .I dont know from where you people such absurd justifications for not signing petitions.
    Anyway the SC has directed that this matter be settled out of court so lets again put on our boxing gloves and start mudslinging or behave in a dignified manner and conduct a fair discussion based on logic and specific issues. I am open to both. Take your pick. And by the way people with some intelleigence should participate.

    Behroze – You mind really works overtime. Seems like you watch too many hindi films to think on those lines.

  • Phiroze

    Boman Dorab Behroze, the true test of your numbers will the result of the BPP trustee election slated for end June – early July. Hope you all make good use of this opportunity.

  • Icchaporia.

    What leaves me aghast is the ‘courage’ of some persons here to say that the BPP CAN NOT cancel the leave and licence of residents who have been living in BPP colonies since decades. This sentence exposes the intelligence level of its author because Leave License Agreements of B.P.P. are invariably of fixed tenure.
    There is nothing absurd in the observation of Boman that since Parsee population is on the older side, not many are conversant with Computers. In fact if the community were that net savvy, communal news weekly would have have folded up. Why do people still purchase Mumbai Samachar were it not for Obituary column. Why BPPPAIDAST.IN has not eliminated Mumbai Samachar.? Computer penetration in Parsee households is barely 25% and that is so in most Indian Households. If those living in Charity Flats of B.P.P. think that they are living in U.S., it is their delusion. If persons talking thus are not ‘idle’ but fully occupied how is it that their posts on Parsi Khabar are timed during 10 a.m. to 6.p.m. Shall we assume that these busy elements are using office P.C.’s for personal work? Yes I am doing so myself because I own my P.C.

    Why these worthy High Priests not issue similar directions to Surat, Pune and Ahmedabad Parsi Punchayets is a question many thinking Parsees ask.
    These worthies have already failed in their duty by performing similar so called irreligious actions themselves and now pretend injure innocence.This is like the prosecutor,,jury and judge being one and the same person who in the past performed the identical act as those now accused of. THIS IS CERTAINLY NOT A SIGN OF MEN IN LORDS SERVICE.

  • Arzan

    Boman my friend. I am not doubting but am sure. Read my post again i have mentioned that people are rude and get personal and others react. I reacted to your rudness.
    There is no renewal for L/L in parsee colonies for people who have been staying since decades. After 96 for all allotments one has to renew which too people do not register after expiry. I hope the issue is put to rest.
    Behroze – Your mind is running overtime and or you seem to be watching too many hindi movies to suggest that your band of reformists should put efforts and get addresses of all those who are egging BPP. Please enlightem me as to what you plan to do once you have the addresses?

  • Boman.

    Arzan,
    I have many friends and relatives residing in Godrej Baug who are required to renew their L/L Agreements at reguar intervals. Majority of buildings at G.B. and in suburs have come up after 1996.
    That said, I am in agreement with your sentiments to have dignified discussions rather than mudslinging amongst ourselves. I urge other who think like me and share my views to refrain from comments on this blog for some time and allow things to cool down.
    I expect that those on other side, having a different perspective would respond in a positive manner and not cause provocation.

  • Rathestar.

    Dear Icchaporia,
    Let me first congratulate you for an excellent rejoinder to all the bunkum being dished out by fundamentalists minds (vide your three posts under different topics here) who have pledged their minds to priests who ought to remounce their self labelled title of ‘High’ and accept their transgressions of the past. As at the moment they are acting like Teachers who have themselves been failures in the yard sticks now they seek other ‘ lower’clergy to observe. They should set their house in order bofore claiming highness. Besides themselves, they have no one to attribute blame for the dissed being heaped on them. The least they can do is to follow the example of current Pope who tendered public aplology for indiscretions of certaim members of the Church which brought disrepute to Catholic clergy.In opinion of many,our own “High’ Priests have forfeited their claim to “Highness on more than one ground. Many of them are High by virtue of heredity.
    Faced with your analysis, I am sure one fundamentalists faithful follower will allege that you too have skeletons to hide as he has alleged against me. He claims he ‘understands’ that I have skeletons to hide. I do not wish to comment on his level of understanding. Not that I owe it to anybody to establish my credentials.All that I can say is that I have no personal agend since none in my family is inter married. So you be prepared for encountering all nutty charcters who have no logical explanations to offer but engage in personal venom. To day we witness on News channels politicians being exposed for their misdeeds, so why should we allow our sacred Religion to be pirated by those who have breached the ‘rules’ they now seek to impose on others. Once again congrats for you analytical posts.But do not get deterred by fundamentalist. I am using this new terminology as these ‘Traditionalists’ are feeling insulted at being called bigots.

  • Behroze.

    @ Phiroze,
    If you want persons like me to ‘test our numbers’ why don’t you Phiroze contest Elections yourself to realize your ow support base.
    Not only you will come to know how many share your ideology but we all will know your purchasing power to hire buses to bring hundred of bumpkins from rural areas of Gujarat, feed them for one day and give them an opportunity of Mumbai Darshan.
    You have a mastery in confusing issues to misguide the simple minded. To day if A. Raja stands for election, he will certainly get elected but will Anna Hazare or Bhushan ever hope to even safeguard their Security deposit.?
    NOW LET THE COMMUNITY SEE YOUR SUPPORT BASE. DO NOT MISS THIS LIFE TIME OPPORTUNITY. YOU HAVE EVERY SCOPE TO GET FINANCIAL BACKING OF AMDAVADI FRUIT JUICE EMPEROR, WHO WILL KEEP ME AWAY BY A BARGEPOLE. SO DO THROW YOUR HAT IN THE RING.
    I assure you, out of compassion I will cast my vote in your favour despite ideological difference so that you do not forfeit your security deposit.
    WITH BEST WISHES.FOR YOUR SUCCESS.

  • Arzan J Ghadially

    Thanks Boman. Lets keep it issue based.
    In GB many flats have been alloted after 96 but as i said most of them have not renewed their L/L agreements till date. If you have friends you may please find out for yourself. Very few have got it done as it is a wasteful expensditure of around 5000 and if they want people to renew they should bear the cost or atleast let it be split 50 50. I am not speaking of GB but overall colonies.
    My request to both sides to keep discussions healthy and may we all learn form each others experiences.

  • Feroze.

    I have heard many a times from some select boarders that why B.P.P. should not file an Appeal.These persons do not seem to realize that not all the 1200 plus signatories to the Online Petition are in total agreement with those who filed the Case against B.P.P. May be some are sympathizers of Kanga & Co but certainly not all.
    Kanga & Co must have spent from their pockets the fees of the Lawyers. They did not misuse Charity funds of a Public Charity Trust. They have used their relationship /friendship or their money to bloat their egos by availing service of Lawyers. Whereas, B.P.P. will waste Charity funds for defending a non issue since these two priests can be debarred by just informing the Panthakies of two B.P.P. owned Fire Temples not to engage these two.Similarly, the mourners at Doongerwadi do not get an option to select. They are provided Mobeds by B.P.P.’s agent Balsara. So why make a mountain out of a molehill?

  • ASW

    Test

  • As many well know, the majority of the Parsis in Mumbai voted for the BPP and they are solidly behind the BPP in decisions they make pertaining to the preservation of our ancient religion.

    With regards to the online petition, some people must be very worried about the BPP going to the Supreme court, since they know the Supreme court has sided with another minority community in a similar case where they were defending the tenets of their religion. India’s supreme court will never go against the religious beliefs of any community and will never interfere in any religious decision. Otherwise all minority religions in India would be in jeopardy.

    We are certain that the Supreme court of India will favour the BPP. God Bless the BPP and their work
    for the religion, may they be ever successful. Amin, Amin, Amin. This is the wish of every righteous Zarathustri.

    We also pray that the heterodox and liberals in our community come on to the middle path once again, the path that is recommended in our religion and they stop on the radical paths they are taking. People can always change for the better.

  • As many well know, the majority of the Parsis in Mumbai voted for the BPP and they are solidly behind the BPP in decisions they make pertaining to the preservation of our ancient religion.

    With regards to the online petition, some people must be very worried about the BPP going to the Supreme court, since they know the Supreme court has sided with another minority community in a similar case where they were defending the tenets of their religion. India’s supreme court will never go against the religious beliefs of any community and will never interfere in any religious decision. Otherwise all minority religions in India would be in jeopardy.

    We are certain that the Supreme court of India will favour the BPP. God Bless the BPP and their work
    for the religion, may they be ever successful. Amin, Amin, Amin. This is the wish of every righteous Zarathustri.

    We also pray that the heterodox and liberals in our community come on to the middle path once again, the path that is recommended in our religion and they stop on the radical paths they are taking. People can always change for the better.

  • Anonymous

    Deen Parast said- “the path that is recommended in our religion and they stop on the radical paths they are taking. ”

    I care a damn if BPP wins or looses… because either way there is no future for this dinosaurs community. More than half of its population is above 60 years…and from the remaining 30% marry non Zoroastrians…about 5% marry withing the community and another 5% stay single. Sooner or latter all the Community Trust wealth that they have hoard as personal wealth is going to the Parjats…Its just a matter of time.

    However Arzan Ghadially alais Deen Parast, i would like to know the source of your religious knowledge .You say, “the path recommended in our religion”, i would like to know what path are you talking about? In which book , which verse says accepting children from mix marriages is against the path of religion? Which book of yours says praying for those who choose a different method of disposing dead other than Dokhma, is not acceptable esp when Dokhma system has failed? Which book of yours says, priest can be defrocked? As usual reply with evidence if you have any…and try not to fool yourself by hiding behind anonymous alais, show some spine.

    Fyi, According to Mary Boyce, orthodox zoroastians have poor education.

  • KoremandShahparast

    Deen Parast said- “the path that is recommended in our religion and they stop on the radical paths they are taking. ”

    I care a damn if BPP wins or looses… because either way there is no future for this dinosaurs community. More than half of its population is above 60 years…and from the remaining 30% marry non Zoroastrians…about 5% marry withing the community and another 5% stay single. Sooner or latter all the Community Trust wealth that they have hoard as personal wealth is going to the Parjats…Its just a matter of time.

    However Arzan Ghadially alais Deen Parast, i would like to know the source of your religious knowledge .You say, “the path recommended in our religion”, i would like to know what path are you talking about? In which book , which verse says accepting children from mix marriages is against the path of religion? Which book of yours says praying for those who choose a different method of disposing dead other than Dokhma, is not acceptable esp when Dokhma system has failed? Which book of yours says, priest can be defrocked? As usual reply with evidence if you have any…and try not to fool yourself by hiding behind anonymous alais, show some spine.

    Fyi, According to Mary Boyce, orthodox zoroastians have poor education.

  • Phiroze

    Behroze, Out of compassion I will pay the security deposit ( If there is any) for you or anyone of your group to contest this election. Let the community decide what they want.
    AWAITING A WORTHY DELEGATE

  • Phiroze

    Behroze, Out of compassion I will pay the security deposit ( If there is any) for you or anyone of your group to contest this election. Let the community decide what they want.
    AWAITING A WORTHY DELEGATE

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Koremand,

    There are many cowards who post here and on Facebook under fake ids. The only way they can promote their twisted religious beliefs is by masquerading as someone else. Why? Because they know they are wrong; rather than admit that and not continue to look foolish, they would prefer to perpetuate their misshapen beliefs under pseudonyms to advance their cockamamie ideas. You are right; if they had a spine and if they had the courage of their convictions, they would not need an assumed name.

    You are right about Mary Boyce’s assessment, but there are those who might say, “What does she know? She is an European!” An ignorant argument to say the least, but let’s put her aside for a moment and look at Parsi men of letters. If you are familiar with the works of Ervad Maneckji Nusserwanji Dhalla and men like Naoroji Ferdoonji to name two amongst many, they offer irrefutable evidence that the orthodox in their inability to reason (how some of them made through college is questionable) held on to ideas that flagrantly went against our prophet’s teachings. The lack of an educated priesthood was the principal cause for false beliefs to flourish. This void persisted within the faithful for many generations. Dhalla and Ferdoonji are not Europeans, but very much born in the faith and one of them was a High Priest!

    A priest, once ordained, cannot be defrocked and barred by any group from performing religious services. One may choose not to use a priest’s services for whatever reason, but no Zoroastrian priest can be “defrocked.” Do not let anyone convince you of such drivel. If that were the case, a vast majority of our clergy would not have a “frock” in the West (bear with my sense of humor.) Your request for anyone to produce evidence for what you have asked will meet with emptiness. None exists to produce anything substantive. All you might get is “deeds of trust” which have no bearing on the religion.

    On a different note, you asked if “Parsi is religion” on another post. If I recall correctly, the response given was that “Parsi is a race.” The “experts” on religion are now displaying their expertise in anthropology. Classifications of race are based on physical characteristics (skin color, hair texture, body proportions, skull dimensions, gene pool, etc.) For the ill informed, there are only three race classifications: Caucasoid, Mongloid and Negroid. Parsi is NOT a race. Anthropologically, the “brown skin” is sub-classified as dark-skinned Caucasian. The term Caucasoid has its origins in “the early inhabitants of the Caucasus Mountains.” At best, you could call Parsi an ethnic group within the Caucasian race. Race is based on biology; ethnicity on culture. If you consider genetic variation, the Parsis carry Indo-European or Indo-Iranian genes, as does the better part of India.

    Being educated is not to have a diploma plastered on your wall; it means the ability to grasp and process information and the capability to shed beliefs that are without merit. Mary Boyce was right. The orthodox are not well educated.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Koremand,

    There are many cowards who post here and on Facebook under fake ids. The only way they can promote their twisted religious beliefs is by masquerading as someone else. Why? Because they know they are wrong; rather than admit that and not continue to look foolish, they would prefer to perpetuate their misshapen beliefs under pseudonyms to advance their cockamamie ideas. You are right; if they had a spine and if they had the courage of their convictions, they would not need an assumed name.

    You are right about Mary Boyce’s assessment, but there are those who might say, “What does she know? She is an European!” An ignorant argument to say the least, but let’s put her aside for a moment and look at Parsi men of letters. If you are familiar with the works of Ervad Maneckji Nusserwanji Dhalla and men like Naoroji Ferdoonji to name two amongst many, they offer irrefutable evidence that the orthodox in their inability to reason (how some of them made through college is questionable) held on to ideas that flagrantly went against our prophet’s teachings. The lack of an educated priesthood was the principal cause for false beliefs to flourish. This void persisted within the faithful for many generations. Dhalla and Ferdoonji are not Europeans, but very much born in the faith and one of them was a High Priest!

    A priest, once ordained, cannot be defrocked and barred by any group from performing religious services. One may choose not to use a priest’s services for whatever reason, but no Zoroastrian priest can be “defrocked.” Do not let anyone convince you of such drivel. If that were the case, a vast majority of our clergy would not have a “frock” in the West (bear with my sense of humor.) Your request for anyone to produce evidence for what you have asked will meet with emptiness. None exists to produce anything substantive. All you might get is “deeds of trust” which have no bearing on the religion.

    On a different note, you asked if “Parsi is religion” on another post. If I recall correctly, the response given was that “Parsi is a race.” The “experts” on religion are now displaying their expertise in anthropology. Classifications of race are based on physical characteristics (skin color, hair texture, body proportions, skull dimensions, gene pool, etc.) For the ill informed, there are only three race classifications: Caucasoid, Mongloid and Negroid. Parsi is NOT a race. Anthropologically, the “brown skin” is sub-classified as dark-skinned Caucasian. The term Caucasoid has its origins in “the early inhabitants of the Caucasus Mountains.” At best, you could call Parsi an ethnic group within the Caucasian race. Race is based on biology; ethnicity on culture. If you consider genetic variation, the Parsis carry Indo-European or Indo-Iranian genes, as does the better part of India.

    Being educated is not to have a diploma plastered on your wall; it means the ability to grasp and process information and the capability to shed beliefs that are without merit. Mary Boyce was right. The orthodox are not well educated.

  • Er.Zerxes

    Is B.P.P, a religious body set up to decide religious issues, Deen Parast?

  • Er.Zerxes

    Is B.P.P, a religious body set up to decide religious issues, Deen Parast?

  • Behroze.

    Phiroze.
    Plagiarizing my own earlier sentence shows the depth of your caliber and originality!
    Point out one message from my side making tall claims of majority backing me or persons having my beliefs. On the contrary, every time it is you who talk the language ‘we will see
    you during elections’ and then becoming pusillanimous when asked to show your own support base. I can afford to pay security deposit but feeding, wining and dinning an electorate is beyond my means.
    In a democracy,if the entire electorate was intellectual enough, would we be seeing so many criminals in politics.? This is applicable to our so called literate community which gets swayed by the quality of dinner menu and the Black Label Whisky served by candidates rather than by judging the honesty, intelligence, capacity and desire of the concerned candidate to serve the community.
    So if you yourself have no guts to stand as a candidate do not try to show off by standing on shoulders of some one else and boast of majority.
    If according to you the existing Trustees of B.P.P. were doing a fine job, just ask your conscience why they have not called for Samast Anjuman Meeting and why they have not declared their wealth?

  • Behroze.

    Phiroze.
    Plagiarizing my own earlier sentence shows the depth of your caliber and originality!
    Point out one message from my side making tall claims of majority backing me or persons having my beliefs. On the contrary, every time it is you who talk the language ‘we will see
    you during elections’ and then becoming pusillanimous when asked to show your own support base. I can afford to pay security deposit but feeding, wining and dinning an electorate is beyond my means.
    In a democracy,if the entire electorate was intellectual enough, would we be seeing so many criminals in politics.? This is applicable to our so called literate community which gets swayed by the quality of dinner menu and the Black Label Whisky served by candidates rather than by judging the honesty, intelligence, capacity and desire of the concerned candidate to serve the community.
    So if you yourself have no guts to stand as a candidate do not try to show off by standing on shoulders of some one else and boast of majority.
    If according to you the existing Trustees of B.P.P. were doing a fine job, just ask your conscience why they have not called for Samast Anjuman Meeting and why they have not declared their wealth?

  • Anonymous

    Majority of Parsis are freeloaders shamelessly living on charities even when they know they don’t deserve it. If these are the ones deciding obviously they will vote for corrupt freeloaders like themselves.

  • KoremandShahparast

    Majority of Parsis are freeloaders shamelessly living on charities even when they know they don’t deserve it. If these are the ones deciding obviously they will vote for corrupt freeloaders like themselves.

  • Anonymous

    Meheryar, What a super comment. But our majestic elephants have decided to ski away back to their circus parade where they belong. Even Narendra Mody said he is thankful to Parsis for continuously making joke of themselves and making Gujaratis laugh.

  • KoremandShahparast

    Meheryar, What a super comment. But our majestic elephants have decided to ski away back to their circus parade where they belong. Even Narendra Mody said he is thankful to Parsis for continuously making joke of themselves and making Gujaratis laugh.

  • BOMAN.

    I cannot understand the reason of this Phiroze to drag my name in his usual tu tu main main. I do not write on this portal for sake of reading my own name appear and feel elated about it like Phiroze seems to. Elections as Trustees to manage Trust properties having connection with Religion is a a myth created by those whom men like Phiroze admire. It has been amply made clear by March 2011 judgment which even Phiroze said was pro Parsee. Then why does he have to now to ‘spend’ his precious time inviting others into discussing a settled issue and which is NOT a part of SCA.
    Whether a so called Reformist or a die hard Fundamentalist gets elected. no B.P.P. Trustee can ever imagine issuing any Fatwa having religious connotation.There are other praqcticing Priest doing the same type of functions like Mirza and Madon whose names are known LET BPP Trustees dare and issue an identical Fatwa against them.
    My only question to men like Phiroze is the definition of a REFORMIST. Does he consider those whose sisters/brothers/daughter /sons married to those of other Religions REFORMISTS , IF NOT THEN, WHO IS REFORMIST?

  • BOMAN.

    I cannot understand the reason of this Phiroze to drag my name in his usual tu tu main main. I do not write on this portal for sake of reading my own name appear and feel elated about it like Phiroze seems to. Elections as Trustees to manage Trust properties having connection with Religion is a a myth created by those whom men like Phiroze admire. It has been amply made clear by March 2011 judgment which even Phiroze said was pro Parsee. Then why does he have to now to ‘spend’ his precious time inviting others into discussing a settled issue and which is NOT a part of SCA.
    Whether a so called Reformist or a die hard Fundamentalist gets elected. no B.P.P. Trustee can ever imagine issuing any Fatwa having religious connotation.There are other praqcticing Priest doing the same type of functions like Mirza and Madon whose names are known LET BPP Trustees dare and issue an identical Fatwa against them.
    My only question to men like Phiroze is the definition of a REFORMIST. Does he consider those whose sisters/brothers/daughter /sons married to those of other Religions REFORMISTS , IF NOT THEN, WHO IS REFORMIST?

  • Dorab.

    Phiroze.
    1)Assuming that a genuine hardnosed Orthodox (unlike the current fake pretentious ones) gets elected as B.P.P. Trustee, can the Board of B.P.P. Trustees prevail upon Trustees of any other Fire Temple to bar the entry of any person in Fire Temples like Narielwalla,Langrana, Maneckji Sett, Dadysett, Banaji etc?

    2)Now take the opposite case, if all 7 yes, seven real Reformists were to get elected as BPP Trustees, can they force the Trustees of Fire Temples as mentioned above by way of illustration, to compel allowing entry of any person who in the opinion of concerned agiary Trustees is not a Parsee Zoroastrian.

    3) Do B.P.P. Trustees have any control over admissions of humdeens and appointment of Priests in Iranshhah or any Atashbehrams?

    In the past there has been person on B.P.P. Board who was responsible for heading a Public Limited Company and then sinking it. In the process many individuals lost their hard earned Savings. But could he touch the B.P.P. finances? Answer : A BIG N O .
    So how is the Religion going to be SAFE OR IN DANGER BASED UPON THE CHARACTER BACKGROUND OF B. P.P. Trustees.
    For quite some time you have been writing rubbish presuming all the readers here to be of same level of intelligence as those who spend Rs. 5/ every week in purchasing a sterile Weekly. I AM REPLYING THUS SINCE YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO INCLUDE MY NAME IN WHAT YOU WRONGLY THOUGHT AS A INTELLIGENT (!) RIPOSTE TO SOMEONE ELSE.
    Pl refrain from judging everybody by your own standards.

  • Dorab.

    Phiroze.
    1)Assuming that a genuine hardnosed Orthodox (unlike the current fake pretentious ones) gets elected as B.P.P. Trustee, can the Board of B.P.P. Trustees prevail upon Trustees of any other Fire Temple to bar the entry of any person in Fire Temples like Narielwalla,Langrana, Maneckji Sett, Dadysett, Banaji etc?

    2)Now take the opposite case, if all 7 yes, seven real Reformists were to get elected as BPP Trustees, can they force the Trustees of Fire Temples as mentioned above by way of illustration, to compel allowing entry of any person who in the opinion of concerned agiary Trustees is not a Parsee Zoroastrian.

    3) Do B.P.P. Trustees have any control over admissions of humdeens and appointment of Priests in Iranshhah or any Atashbehrams?

    In the past there has been person on B.P.P. Board who was responsible for heading a Public Limited Company and then sinking it. In the process many individuals lost their hard earned Savings. But could he touch the B.P.P. finances? Answer : A BIG N O .
    So how is the Religion going to be SAFE OR IN DANGER BASED UPON THE CHARACTER BACKGROUND OF B. P.P. Trustees.
    For quite some time you have been writing rubbish presuming all the readers here to be of same level of intelligence as those who spend Rs. 5/ every week in purchasing a sterile Weekly. I AM REPLYING THUS SINCE YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO INCLUDE MY NAME IN WHAT YOU WRONGLY THOUGHT AS A INTELLIGENT (!) RIPOSTE TO SOMEONE ELSE.
    Pl refrain from judging everybody by your own standards.

  • Arzan

    Dear Khoremand – I am a regular on Parsi Khabar and at no point of time have i used the shelter of an alais. Apply your peanut brain and go through my posts. I take people like you head on and need not induldge in gimmicks. Just because you use aliases does not mean others follow. Now that you have no more to discuss you indulge in this cheap gimmick.
    You may say whatever you feel like but discussing with the likes of you makes no sense at all. i dont argue with google scholars.
    To hell with Mary Boyce and her remarks. dont hide behind a womens skirt and quote her.Speak your mind. People like you are a disgrace to the community. I dare you you to come on a common platform and say these words of Mary which you so proudly claim or invite Mary to come and utter these words. You will underatke the jouney to the Tower of silence in no time.
    I came across a article in Jame by Rustamwhich i reproduce and i endorse his views when he addresses people like you as ‘the hyenas of conversion’ A person shunning his God given religion and joining another is insulting God. When you can ditch your own religion to follow another when it was God will to put you in this world in a particlar religion. These some rich and famous people of our community are behind conversions and intermarriages because they and their children have married out of the religion and are now using their money power to change the custom.
    When our forefathers came on the western shores we made a promise to not convert or allow conversions and till this day by and large we are abiding by the promise while just as we came to western shores there were other groups which went to different countries and see where they are today ? they have disappered because of intermarriages. We have survived because we followed the religious vows and also went on to produce Tata’s Bhaha’s and Manechshaws. Leave us alone there is no room for converts.
    I want you to think – When i can be so frank with peabrains like you using my own name why should i use an alias? Think.
    Beleive in quality and not quantity. Intermarriages and conversions will give you quanity.
    Dont fall prey to these rich industrailists and Google scholars who are encouraging conversions and intermarriages because they have a history of intermarriages.
    Please forward this post to your very dear friend Mary Boyce and ask her to keep her trap shut and not offer unsolicited advice.

  • Arzan

    My Dear Khoremand,
    I am a regular on Parsi Khabar since many years and at no point of time have i used the shelter of an alais. Apply your peanut brain that is if your converted religion has given you one and go through my posts. I take people like you head on and need not induldge in gimmicks. Just because you use aliases does not mean others follow. Now that you have bunch of reformists have lost the war dont start discussing the battle and indulge in this cheap gimmick.
    You may say whatever you feel like but discussing with the likes of you makes no sense at all. i dont argue with google scholars and that is what pricks you because i dont respond.
    To hell with Mary Boyce and her remarks. dont hide behind a womens skirt and quote her.Be a MAN and Speak your mind. People like you are a disgrace to the community. I would very like to invite you and Mary to come on a common platform and utter these words of Mary which you so proudly claim.Had you been a parsi you would have made your way to the Tower of silence in no time with Mary in tow but then that may not be possible for we dont allow converts at the Tower of silence so plan another way of disposal.
    I came across a article in Jame by Rustam and i endorse his views when he addresses people like you as ‘the ‘HYENAS ON CONVERSION’ A person shunning his God given religion and joining another is insulting God. When you can ditch your own religion to follow another when it was God will to put you in this world in a particlar religion. These some rich and famous people of our community are behind conversions and intermarriages because they and their children have married out of the religion and are now using their money power to change the custom with folls like you falling prey.
    When our forefathers came on the western shores we made a promise to not convert or allow conversions and till this day by and large we are abiding by the promise while just as we came to western shores there were other groups which went to different countries and see where they are today ? they have disappered because of intermarriages. We have survived because we followed the religious vows and also went on to produce Tata’s Bhaha’s and Manechshaws. Leave us alone there is no room for converts.
    I want you to think – When i can be so frank with pea brains like you using my own name why should i use an alias? Think.
    Beleive in quality and not quantity. Intermarriages and conversions will give you quanity.
    Dont fall prey to these rich industrailists and Google scholars who are encouraging conversions and intermarriages because they have a history of intermarriages.
    Please forward this post to your very dear friend Mary and tell her to shut up.
    I dont blame the likes of you but your parents for the upbringing they have given you.
    Sorry. No place for reformists in India. Try some foreign country or seek advise from the Europian born friend Mary.
    No wonder you people have turned reformists for no sensible parsi girl would marry your band of reformists.
    If posts are not toned down dont expect polite response

  • Arzan

    I have been accused by a peanut brain and his bunch of reformists that i am the author of your post and have used it as an alias.
    I dont blame them because their parents have never shown them the right path. This is what happens when you are the offspring of a convert.

  • Arzan

    I have been accused by a peanut brain and his bunch of reformists that i am the author of your post and have used it as an alias.
    I dont blame them because their parents have never shown them the right path. This is what happens when you are the offspring of a convert.

  • Arzan

    My dear converted offspring,
    Please refrain from getting personal for you will get the same. Twisted religious beleifs have been throught to you by your twisted convert parents.
    We beleive in purity and dont beleive in mixing so best keep out cause you are not invited and will never be. Every religions is faced with Black sheeps. We have ours too so all the best and keep to your flock and singMary had a little lamb ……………

  • Arzan

    You are forgetting Narendra Modi also said ‘This community dosent want anything not even election tickets This shows their love is without condition. Some Sanskar some tradition must be there to make it possible and GUJARAT has benefited from it.I pray to Inranshah for more and more contribution by the parsi’s to this nation’
    WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY KOREMAND?
    Hang your head in shame for ridiculing the Parsi community you were born in to. Wish your parents could have given you some Sanskar
    You and your band will surely pay for all the negativity that you have tried to potray of our community that we so dearly love.

  • Arzan

    You are forgetting Narendra Modi also said ‘This community dosent want anything not even election tickets This shows their love is without condition. Some Sanskar some tradition must be there to make it possible and GUJARAT has benefited from it.I pray to Inranshah for more and more contribution by the parsi’s to this nation’
    WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY KOREMAND?
    Hang your head in shame for ridiculing the Parsi community you were born in to. Wish your parents could have given you some Sanskar
    You and your band will surely pay for all the negativity that you have tried to potray of our community that we so dearly love.

  • Arzan

    My Dear Khoremand and Meheryar,
    I am a regular on Parsi Khabar since many years and at no point of time have i used the shelter of an alais. Apply your peanut brains that is if your converted religion has given you one and go through my posts. I take people like you head on and need not induldge in gimmicks. Just because you use aliases does not mean others follow. Now that you have no more to discuss you indulge in this cheap gimmick.
    You may say whatever you feel like but discussing with the likes of you makes no sense at all. i dont argue with google scholars.
    To hell with Mary Boyce and her remarks. dont hide behind a womens skirt and quote her.Be a nab and speak your mind. People like you are a disgrace to the community. I inviteyou to come on and say these words of Mary which you so proudly claim or invite Mary to come and utter these words. You will underatke the jouney to God in no time with Mary in tow.
    I came across a article in Jame by Rustam which i reproduce and i endorse his views when he addresses people like you as ‘the hyenas of conversion’ A person shunning his God given religion and joining another is insulting God. When you can ditch your own religion to follow another when it was God will to put you in this world in a particlar religion. These some rich and famous people of our community are behind conversions and intermarriages because they and their children have married out of the religion and are now using their money power to change the custom.
    When our forefathers came on the western shores we made a promise to not convert or allow conversions and till this day by and large we are abiding by the promise while just as we came to western shores there were other groups which went to different countries and see where they are today ? they have disappered because of intermarriages. We have survived because we followed the religious vows and also went on to produce Tata’s Bhaha’s and Manechshaws. Leave us alone there is no room for converts.
    I want you to think – When i can be so frank with pea brains like you using my own name why should i use an alias? Think.
    Beleive in quality and not quantity. Intermarriages and conversions will give you quanity.
    Dont fall prey to these rich industrailists and Google scholars who are encouraging conversions and intermarriages because they have a history of intermarriages.
    Please forward this post to your very dear friend Mary and tell her to shut up.
    I dont blame the likes of you but your parents for the upbringing they have given you.
    Sorry. No place for reformists in India. Try some foreign country or seek advise from the Europian born friend Mary.
    No wonder you people have turned reformists for no sensible parsi girl would marry your band of reformists.
    Tone down before it gets messy. I am game for both.

  • Arzan

    My Dear Khoremand and Meheryar,
    I am a regular on Parsi Khabar since many years and at no point of time have i used the shelter of an alais. Apply your peanut brains that is if your converted religion has given you one and go through my posts. I take people like you head on and need not induldge in gimmicks. Just because you use aliases does not mean others follow. Now that you have no more to discuss you indulge in this cheap gimmick.
    You may say whatever you feel like but discussing with the likes of you makes no sense at all. i dont argue with google scholars.
    To hell with Mary Boyce and her remarks. dont hide behind a womens skirt and quote her.Be a nab and speak your mind. People like you are a disgrace to the community. I inviteyou to come on and say these words of Mary which you so proudly claim or invite Mary to come and utter these words. You will underatke the jouney to God in no time with Mary in tow.
    I came across a article in Jame by Rustam which i reproduce and i endorse his views when he addresses people like you as ‘the hyenas of conversion’ A person shunning his God given religion and joining another is insulting God. When you can ditch your own religion to follow another when it was God will to put you in this world in a particlar religion. These some rich and famous people of our community are behind conversions and intermarriages because they and their children have married out of the religion and are now using their money power to change the custom.
    When our forefathers came on the western shores we made a promise to not convert or allow conversions and till this day by and large we are abiding by the promise while just as we came to western shores there were other groups which went to different countries and see where they are today ? they have disappered because of intermarriages. We have survived because we followed the religious vows and also went on to produce Tata’s Bhaha’s and Manechshaws. Leave us alone there is no room for converts.
    I want you to think – When i can be so frank with pea brains like you using my own name why should i use an alias? Think.
    Beleive in quality and not quantity. Intermarriages and conversions will give you quanity.
    Dont fall prey to these rich industrailists and Google scholars who are encouraging conversions and intermarriages because they have a history of intermarriages.
    Please forward this post to your very dear friend Mary and tell her to shut up.
    I dont blame the likes of you but your parents for the upbringing they have given you.
    Sorry. No place for reformists in India. Try some foreign country or seek advise from the Europian born friend Mary.
    No wonder you people have turned reformists for no sensible parsi girl would marry your band of reformists.
    Tone down before it gets messy. I am game for both.

  • Arzan

    Yours is a fit case of Grapes are sour. Dont show off your bapp kamai. Show your app kamai and stop riducling the poor in our community. I hope God will show you a day when i see you knocking the doors of the BPP for accomodation.

  • Arzan

    Yours is a fit case of Grapes are sour. Dont show off your bapp kamai. Show your app kamai and stop riducling the poor in our community. I hope God will show you a day when i see you knocking the doors of the BPP for accomodation.

  • Er.Zerxes.

    ‘My only question to men like Phiroze is the definition of a REFORMIST. Does he consider those whose sisters/brothers/daughter /sons married to those of other Religions REFORMISTS ,
    ANSWER FROM ME: ACCORDING TO INDIVIDUALS LIKE PHIROZE THOSE whose sisters/brothers/daughter /sons married to those of other RELIGIONS ARE ORTHODOX ABD DEEPLY RELIGIOUS!! LOL.

  • Er.Zerxes.

    ‘My only question to men like Phiroze is the definition of a REFORMIST. Does he consider those whose sisters/brothers/daughter /sons married to those of other Religions REFORMISTS ,
    ANSWER FROM ME: ACCORDING TO INDIVIDUALS LIKE PHIROZE THOSE whose sisters/brothers/daughter /sons married to those of other RELIGIONS ARE ORTHODOX ABD DEEPLY RELIGIOUS!! LOL.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Dear Arzan,

    Very glad to know that you do not use an alias when posting your views. Highly commendable. But were you not the one asking for civility and decency in language from the other posters? Must be another Arzan. Sorry if I mistook you for the one who requested courtesy and good manners and not one who issues threats. Besides, Arzan it is better to have a pea brain than no brain. Those with a pea brain are still better off than you!

    Unfortunately, I am unable to convey your sentiments to Mary Boyce as she is long gone and, while I have no way of knowing, I imagine conferring with Zarathustra how to spread his beautiful message around the world.
    It might interest you to know that Khojeste Mistree and Dastur Firoze Kotwal studied under Mary Boyce and they both have a very high regard for her and I don’t think they will be too happy with what you have to say about her.

    Were you not the one who was willing to discuss things intelligently? Again, my apologies if I have erred in the name recognition.

    You see, our forefathers may have made a promise (if there is any truth to that story); however, there is nothing in our religion, according to the teachings of our prophet, that proscribes conversion. Don’t just fly off the handle, because you believe in something strongly that has no veracity and a thought provoking idea is presented to you. Do you follow our religion based on some putative promise made by our forefathers or do you follow the religion as given to us by our prophet? I am not sure about you, but I prefer the teachings of Zarathustra.

    People are converting left and right around the world, including India and children of mixed parentage are freely walking in and out of agiaries, in Bombay and elsewhere, with the blessings of the attending priests, as they should. Whether you like it or not, it is a fact and the sooner you come to grips with reality, the better you will sleep at night. What you call “reform in India”, I call following the teachings of Zarathustra, and that “reform” (your term, not mine) is taking place in your hometown. Isn’t that what started this whole controversy? You can take two priests to court, but there are ten other priests doing the same thing under your nose, and you don’t even know it!

    I am not falling prey to any industrialist or Google. My views derive from an intense study of the religion. No one has disappeared anywhere because of intermarriage or conversion. The religion is thriving very well around the world.

    How do you know to whom we are married? Also, I do not think you have any right to insult our parents. By saying what you did, you publicly exhibited your own upbringing. I am not one to dole out threats, but beware, you may get entangled in your own web.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Dear Arzan,

    Very glad to know that you do not use an alias when posting your views. Highly commendable. But were you not the one asking for civility and decency in language from the other posters? Must be another Arzan. Sorry if I mistook you for the one who requested courtesy and good manners and not one who issues threats. Besides, Arzan it is better to have a pea brain than no brain. Those with a pea brain are still better off than you!

    Unfortunately, I am unable to convey your sentiments to Mary Boyce as she is long gone and, while I have no way of knowing, I imagine conferring with Zarathustra how to spread his beautiful message around the world.
    It might interest you to know that Khojeste Mistree and Dastur Firoze Kotwal studied under Mary Boyce and they both have a very high regard for her and I don’t think they will be too happy with what you have to say about her.

    Were you not the one who was willing to discuss things intelligently? Again, my apologies if I have erred in the name recognition.

    You see, our forefathers may have made a promise (if there is any truth to that story); however, there is nothing in our religion, according to the teachings of our prophet, that proscribes conversion. Don’t just fly off the handle, because you believe in something strongly that has no veracity and a thought provoking idea is presented to you. Do you follow our religion based on some putative promise made by our forefathers or do you follow the religion as given to us by our prophet? I am not sure about you, but I prefer the teachings of Zarathustra.

    People are converting left and right around the world, including India and children of mixed parentage are freely walking in and out of agiaries, in Bombay and elsewhere, with the blessings of the attending priests, as they should. Whether you like it or not, it is a fact and the sooner you come to grips with reality, the better you will sleep at night. What you call “reform in India”, I call following the teachings of Zarathustra, and that “reform” (your term, not mine) is taking place in your hometown. Isn’t that what started this whole controversy? You can take two priests to court, but there are ten other priests doing the same thing under your nose, and you don’t even know it!

    I am not falling prey to any industrialist or Google. My views derive from an intense study of the religion. No one has disappeared anywhere because of intermarriage or conversion. The religion is thriving very well around the world.

    How do you know to whom we are married? Also, I do not think you have any right to insult our parents. By saying what you did, you publicly exhibited your own upbringing. I am not one to dole out threats, but beware, you may get entangled in your own web.

  • Arzan

    Meheryar – Please read my post again. I have clarified my stand if anyone badmouths or does a name calling will expect the same. Civility works both ways. Were you justified by your language that you ask for civility? There is a reaction to every action. Your actions spoke volumes about your upbringing. i didnt start the mudslinging it was started by you and your band of reformists behaving like thugs and showing your intense study of the religion. and namecalling. My parents have taught me to fight back if anyone speaks against the community or badmounths. Let the readers decide your upbringing. Dont expect me to sit back while accusations are levelled by people who know nothing about the cmmunity except sit abroad and try to pick holes.
    I am against conversion and if there are such people in India i will oppose them too.

  • Arzan

    Meheryar – Please read my post again. I have clarified my stand if anyone badmouths or does a name calling will expect the same. Civility works both ways. Were you justified by your language that you ask for civility? There is a reaction to every action. Your actions spoke volumes about your upbringing. i didnt start the mudslinging it was started by you and your band of reformists behaving like thugs and showing your intense study of the religion. and namecalling. My parents have taught me to fight back if anyone speaks against the community or badmounths. Let the readers decide your upbringing. Dont expect me to sit back while accusations are levelled by people who know nothing about the cmmunity except sit abroad and try to pick holes.
    I am against conversion and if there are such people in India i will oppose them too.

  • Er.Zerxes.

    Dear Meheryar,
    I think that even Ahura Mazda has given up hopes on those who say ‘To hell with Mary Boyce and her remarks.” Does this person know that this lady was associated with Dasur Kotwal and K.Mistree. Now Meheryar you would surely have realised the type of ‘pious/religious minded (!)/ orthodox,” we in India have to contend with.
    The ‘sophisticated’ verbosity of such ‘god fearing’ individuals itself shows their upbringing.Not knowing who actually was Mary Boyce shows the religious knowledge of this person. .
    Now coming to his remark ‘no sensible parsi girl would marry your band of reformists’ my simple question is why Parsi girls shun marrying a full time Mobed? Is the Mobed class REFORMISTS?
    As for the the promise to the “King’ not to convert, did this Kisse Sanjan also not include not to conduct marriages before sunset and to wear the dress identical to locals? How many Parsee men wear Dhoti, Kurta and females Sarees? And have our “HIGH” priest recognized marriages between a Parsee Zoro male and a Parsee Zoro female if such Ashirwad ceremony took place ‘before sunset’?
    I recollect a Parsee Priest calling a child of inter faith marriage as a ‘ba—–d’ in front of a gathering. Wonder if the same label will be applicable to grand children of a “HIGH” priest, whose sons have married non Parsees?

  • Er.Zerxes.

    Dear Meheryar,
    I think that even Ahura Mazda has given up hopes on those who say ‘To hell with Mary Boyce and her remarks.” Does this person know that this lady was associated with Dasur Kotwal and K.Mistree. Now Meheryar you would surely have realised the type of ‘pious/religious minded (!)/ orthodox,” we in India have to contend with.
    The ‘sophisticated’ verbosity of such ‘god fearing’ individuals itself shows their upbringing.Not knowing who actually was Mary Boyce shows the religious knowledge of this person. .
    Now coming to his remark ‘no sensible parsi girl would marry your band of reformists’ my simple question is why Parsi girls shun marrying a full time Mobed? Is the Mobed class REFORMISTS?
    As for the the promise to the “King’ not to convert, did this Kisse Sanjan also not include not to conduct marriages before sunset and to wear the dress identical to locals? How many Parsee men wear Dhoti, Kurta and females Sarees? And have our “HIGH” priest recognized marriages between a Parsee Zoro male and a Parsee Zoro female if such Ashirwad ceremony took place ‘before sunset’?
    I recollect a Parsee Priest calling a child of inter faith marriage as a ‘ba—–d’ in front of a gathering. Wonder if the same label will be applicable to grand children of a “HIGH” priest, whose sons have married non Parsees?

  • Anonymous

    Arzan Ghadially, are you poor? if yes, than how can you afford a computer with internet and all the time you have been wailing away on Parsi khabar and other such blogs giving long replies everyday to ‘peanut brains’ like us? Why don’t you look out for a respectable job for yourself rather than living a life of a freeloader at the expense of the community? I can understand why you get so insecure with the idea of conversion … You are brought up thinking this community owes you a living… So community charity is to be used as a personal wealth !! No, you are not alone to think like that, majority of Parsis who talk of ‘Parsi first’ and Zoroastrian last are like you. They know living with lies is profitable. So they go around gagging the voice of truth. I dunno if you have read PTA column in Mumbai samachar…on Govt thinking of taxing BPP… It says Yazdi Desai who makes more than Rs.50 lacs, resides under subsidize housing scheme meant for poor parsis and pays kingly amount of Rs.3,000/- to BPP trust…of which he is a trustee too…Another poor parsi with pure blood like you. See birds of same feather. Any wonder this man got elected by majority of likeminded?

  • KoremandShahparast

    Arzan Ghadially, if you were indeed poor, it is not understood how you can afford a computer with internet connection since it is evident that you are able to find time to blog and post long winding messages to many a ‘peanut sized brains’ like me.

    Apparently, either you are misusing the internet hours of your employer if you are gainfully employed. Alternatively, you are being subsidized by doles and charity from those on whose behalf you speak out what you consider as the true interpretation of our faith and exposing your ‘deep knowledge’ about Mary Boyce. If this lady is of no consequence to your Parseeism then her pupils who have been mentioned by Meheryar Rivetna must be dodos. Right?

    Sorry, I am not living on BAAP KAMAI OR ON CHARITY. Perhaps many like me who have to contend with your type of ‘knowledge’ too are earning their daily bread by the taxing of their brains and not on doles and charity. In fact it is sour grapes for persons like you that most of us – so called Reformists are residing in NON BPP FLATS. That is known as AAP KAMAI. DOLES AND CHARITY FLATS ARE BAAP KAMAI OF FORE FATHERS. THE SAME IS MEANT FOR REALLY NEEDY AND NOT FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO GAG THE VOICE OF FACTS.

    One can understand why you get so insecured and agitated with the idea of acceptance … You are brought up thinking this community owes you a living… So community charity is to be used as though it is your personal wealth !! No, you are not alone to think like that, majority of Parsis who talk of ‘Parsi first’ and Zoroastrian last are like you. They know living with lies is profitable. Likes of you would condemn Mirza and Madon as renegades but other High Priests who performed similar acts are not renegades. In fact they are judges, jury & prosecutors as if they have no blot !

    Have you read PTA column in Mumbai Samachar…on Govt thinking of taxing BPP.?.. It says Yazdi Desai who makes more than Rs.50 lacs, resides under subsidize housing scheme meant for poor parsis and pays kingly amount of Rs.3,000/- to BPP trust…of which he is a trustee too…Another poor parsi with pure blood like you. See, birds of same feather. Any wonder this man got elected by majority of likeminded?

  • Anonymous

    Meheryar, ironically the man who has been living his life on DOLES has audacity to question upbring of others! From this itself we get to understand his belief in ‘Quality’ and not quantity. 🙂

  • KoremandShahparast

    Meheryar, ironically the man who has been living his life on DOLES has audacity to question upbring of others! From this itself we get to understand his belief in ‘Quality’ and not quantity. 🙂

  • Anonymous

    Very easy to decipher what Narendra Mody said to Parsis and what he actually meant. First of all, Parsis have no numbers to command a vote bank therefore demanding an election ticket is out of question. Case close…He just glossed it over with ‘Love’ and ‘Sanskar’ to make types like you, lap it up without a hiccup.
    Than he goes on to say, don’t even ask for any concession, because you aren’t going to get it. Just like a doormat get use to getting used or else, we have shown muslims, what we are capable of. Of cause he said ” I pray to Inranshah for more and more contribution by the parsi’s to this nation”…Not the other way round… If you thought he was praising you, it only goes to prove Narendra Mody right for calling you a ‘joker’.

  • KoremandShahparast

    Very easy to decipher what Narendra Mody said to Parsis and what he actually meant. First of all, Parsis have no numbers to command a vote bank therefore demanding an election ticket is out of question. Case close…He just glossed it over with ‘Love’ and ‘Sanskar’ to make types like you, lap it up without a hiccup.
    Than he goes on to say, don’t even ask for any concession, because you aren’t going to get it. Just like a doormat get use to getting used or else, we have shown muslims, what we are capable of. Of cause he said ” I pray to Inranshah for more and more contribution by the parsi’s to this nation”…Not the other way round… If you thought he was praising you, it only goes to prove Narendra Mody right for calling you a ‘joker’.

  • F. Kanga

    It is a matter of shame that a Trustee should be a beneficiary of the very Trust of which he happens to be a Trustee. Morally and legally it is questionable and there is no shortage of ‘civic’ minded persons who will report this to the concerned authorities. It would be in the fitness of things for this Trustee to relocate himself till such time he is a Trustee. I am sure that with the income that he would be earning, he can afford a decent accomodation on ownership and silence the mouths of disgruntled elements. Ultimately the Trust and the community will be spared of the burden of taxes.
    If he is having an apprehension that he may not get reelected so why should he shift to another accomodation, then in the interest of the Trust he should instantly resign. AFTER ALL A TRUSTEE IS SUPPOSED TO PROTECT THE INTEREST OF THE TRUST AND SET A HIGH STANDARD FOR OTHERS TO FOLLOW.

  • F. Kanga

    It is a matter of shame that a Trustee should be a beneficiary of the very Trust of which he happens to be a Trustee. Morally and legally it is questionable and there is no shortage of ‘civic’ minded persons who will report this to the concerned authorities. It would be in the fitness of things for this Trustee to relocate himself till such time he is a Trustee. I am sure that with the income that he would be earning, he can afford a decent accomodation on ownership and silence the mouths of disgruntled elements. Ultimately the Trust and the community will be spared of the burden of taxes.
    If he is having an apprehension that he may not get reelected so why should he shift to another accomodation, then in the interest of the Trust he should instantly resign. AFTER ALL A TRUSTEE IS SUPPOSED TO PROTECT THE INTEREST OF THE TRUST AND SET A HIGH STANDARD FOR OTHERS TO FOLLOW.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Arzan,

    I did read your post. I always do. In fact, I look forward to your posts. The more I read what you have to say, the more I am convinced that my thinking is on the right path. Your posts strengthen my convictions and immensely boost my ego; not to mention how they tickle my funny bone and I laugh until tears roll down my cheeks. They make my day. Please keep them coming. Thank you for that small pleasure in life.

    Now, have you re-read mine? Nowhere in my post have I mentioned your name or attacked you personally. My comment was a general statement of fact to Koremand’s comment that those mired in incongruous beliefs are not well read or educated in religious matters. That is well reflected in the arguments and statements that come from your “band.” As I said, a statement of fact. My response was not aimed at you nor anyone in particular; however, if the shoe fits…wear it! There was no mudslinging; you chose to take it that way. I was offering an observation about human behavior. I have not used foul language nor called any individual any name. Any oblique comments are a result of the absurdity I read. That is the purpose of these discussions: to identify flawed thinking on either side and explain why it is flawed. You cannot fault me for your insecurity. You dragged my deceased parents into the discussion, I did not! You issued threats, I did not. Who is the perpetrator here?

    My statements are not made to “pick holes” or level anything at the community. My desire is to see that the religion is preserved in its original form, as best we know from what we have. I am open to the possibility that I may be wrong in my beliefs. Show me, through scripture or history, where I am wrong and I will champion your cause. Do you have the courage to say the same? Besides, you mislabel me as a reformist. My goal is to see that the religion is practiced as given to us by our prophet; not based on some presumed promise or an armchair dastur. You and your band are the reformists, because you want to deviate from the pristine Zoroastrian teachings and introduce practices and beliefs that go dead against Zarathustra’s principles.

    You do not have a monopoly on knowledge about the community. You have no idea what role I play in any part of the world as far as our religion is concerned. Please do not make assumptions about me. Ask and I will tell you. You have no clue about what I do in this matter. You can fight conversion all you want. I wish you luck. It will be a thrill to watch you jousting windmills.

    I was taught that there is no need to follow someone in the gutter because he chooses to go there. I was taught no matter what the provocation or the degree of provocation, I must never threaten people nor drag their families into the discussion. Only weak people resort to such tactics. I have nothing more to comment on this subject. Good luck to you.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Arzan,

    I did read your post. I always do. In fact, I look forward to your posts. The more I read what you have to say, the more I am convinced that my thinking is on the right path. Your posts strengthen my convictions and immensely boost my ego; not to mention how they tickle my funny bone and I laugh until tears roll down my cheeks. They make my day. Please keep them coming. Thank you for that small pleasure in life.

    Now, have you re-read mine? Nowhere in my post have I mentioned your name or attacked you personally. My comment was a general statement of fact to Koremand’s comment that those mired in incongruous beliefs are not well read or educated in religious matters. That is well reflected in the arguments and statements that come from your “band.” As I said, a statement of fact. My response was not aimed at you nor anyone in particular; however, if the shoe fits…wear it! There was no mudslinging; you chose to take it that way. I was offering an observation about human behavior. I have not used foul language nor called any individual any name. Any oblique comments are a result of the absurdity I read. That is the purpose of these discussions: to identify flawed thinking on either side and explain why it is flawed. You cannot fault me for your insecurity. You dragged my deceased parents into the discussion, I did not! You issued threats, I did not. Who is the perpetrator here?

    My statements are not made to “pick holes” or level anything at the community. My desire is to see that the religion is preserved in its original form, as best we know from what we have. I am open to the possibility that I may be wrong in my beliefs. Show me, through scripture or history, where I am wrong and I will champion your cause. Do you have the courage to say the same? Besides, you mislabel me as a reformist. My goal is to see that the religion is practiced as given to us by our prophet; not based on some presumed promise or an armchair dastur. You and your band are the reformists, because you want to deviate from the pristine Zoroastrian teachings and introduce practices and beliefs that go dead against Zarathustra’s principles.

    You do not have a monopoly on knowledge about the community. You have no idea what role I play in any part of the world as far as our religion is concerned. Please do not make assumptions about me. Ask and I will tell you. You have no clue about what I do in this matter. You can fight conversion all you want. I wish you luck. It will be a thrill to watch you jousting windmills.

    I was taught that there is no need to follow someone in the gutter because he chooses to go there. I was taught no matter what the provocation or the degree of provocation, I must never threaten people nor drag their families into the discussion. Only weak people resort to such tactics. I have nothing more to comment on this subject. Good luck to you.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Dear Zerxes,

    Thank you for your message. It is a shame how poorly informed some members of our community are. They proclaim to be “religious and pious”, but have never read much to understand in-depth how much our religion has to offer and what it is all about. All they can mumble is “good thoughts, ….etc.”

    They feel a great affinity for Dasturji Kotwal and Mr. Mistree, but little do they realize that Dastur Kotwal studied Zoroastrianism under not only Mary Boyce, but myriad of European scholars. He has studied under French, Dutch, English, German and American scholars. How many know that apart from his internal advisor, all his Ph. D. external advisors were non-Zoroastrian Europeans? The sad part is his “chelas” take offense when their lack of knowledge is brought to their attention. I am willing to bet not many know what his thesis was about. For the curious, it was on Shayast-ne-Shayast. I’ll double the wager that a vast majority of “dhongidox” readers here have never heard of these Zoroastrian manuscripts, leave alone read them. They mock at European scholars, but the High Priest was trained by non-Zoroastrian European scholars! Isn’t that ironic? Now, they take umbrage when they are called ignorant, but can one think of a better term?
    How many of these “chelas” have read the works of Kotwal or Mistree? If they did, they would discover how absurd they sound on ParsiKhabar or Facebook. Can some of the dhogidoxes name even one book written by Kotwal? A real sad state of affairs. Oh, I forgot. They don’t need to read. They get their knowledge by divine inspiration.

    Yes, I know people who consider children of mixed marriages illegitimate. These are the very people who talk of “good thoughts, good words and good deeds”; pretend to be “pure” Parsis; perform meaningless rituals to seek God’s benedictions and then turn around and insult their fellow human beings in the name of religion! And they are worried about converts making the faith impure!
    Toba! Toba! Toba!

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Dear Zerxes,

    Thank you for your message. It is a shame how poorly informed some members of our community are. They proclaim to be “religious and pious”, but have never read much to understand in-depth how much our religion has to offer and what it is all about. All they can mumble is “good thoughts, ….etc.”

    They feel a great affinity for Dasturji Kotwal and Mr. Mistree, but little do they realize that Dastur Kotwal studied Zoroastrianism under not only Mary Boyce, but myriad of European scholars. He has studied under French, Dutch, English, German and American scholars. How many know that apart from his internal advisor, all his Ph. D. external advisors were non-Zoroastrian Europeans? The sad part is his “chelas” take offense when their lack of knowledge is brought to their attention. I am willing to bet not many know what his thesis was about. For the curious, it was on Shayast-ne-Shayast. I’ll double the wager that a vast majority of “dhongidox” readers here have never heard of these Zoroastrian manuscripts, leave alone read them. They mock at European scholars, but the High Priest was trained by non-Zoroastrian European scholars! Isn’t that ironic? Now, they take umbrage when they are called ignorant, but can one think of a better term?
    How many of these “chelas” have read the works of Kotwal or Mistree? If they did, they would discover how absurd they sound on ParsiKhabar or Facebook. Can some of the dhogidoxes name even one book written by Kotwal? A real sad state of affairs. Oh, I forgot. They don’t need to read. They get their knowledge by divine inspiration.

    Yes, I know people who consider children of mixed marriages illegitimate. These are the very people who talk of “good thoughts, good words and good deeds”; pretend to be “pure” Parsis; perform meaningless rituals to seek God’s benedictions and then turn around and insult their fellow human beings in the name of religion! And they are worried about converts making the faith impure!
    Toba! Toba! Toba!

  • KoremandShahparast

    What can Ahura Mazda do, if some idiots block fresh waters of a flowing river from all the sides in their wisdom to preserve it…but inevitably converting it into a pest breeding stagnant pool?!!

    Ahura Mazda defines our individual wisdom [our Buddhi] and He is one with us not a separate entity. When some individuals chose an illogical path devoid of wisdom and not in accordance with universal law of nature, how can anyone save them ?

  • Barak Aga

    Is it legally permissible for a Trustee to also be a beneficiary of the Trust.
    In the case of the Pune Parsi Punchayet elections a few years ago, one of the candidates for the post of Trustee, had to withdraw his candidature on the grounds that it is not legally tenable for a beneficiary to be the Trustee

  • Phiroze

    Dear Meheryar, The BPP has already appealed to the SC. Let us all await the outcome. In the meanwhile you do what you want in US ( preserve the religion in its original form as best you know from what you have ) and we shall do what we have been doing here in Mumbai.

  • Phiroze

    Dear Meheryar, The BPP has already appealed to the SC. Let us all await the outcome. In the meanwhile you do what you want in US ( preserve the religion in its original form as best you know from what you have ) and we shall do what we have been doing here in Mumbai.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Dear Phiroze, You think the outcome of appeals will stop people from doing what they are doing and plan to carry on in the future?

    Isn’t it a shame that you would rather let non-Zoroastrians (judge and legal teams) determine what is best for our religion rather than follow the principles given to us by our prophet? Is that your idea of keeping the faith “pure?”

    We will continue to do what we think is best for our religion in the U.S. and in India and in Iran and in Brazil and in….

    I trust the other blog about the Dar-e-Mehr in Dallas was an eye-opener for you that the religion is well and alive and thriving here and will continue to do so.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Dear Phiroze, You think the outcome of appeals will stop people from doing what they are doing and plan to carry on in the future?

    Isn’t it a shame that you would rather let non-Zoroastrians (judge and legal teams) determine what is best for our religion rather than follow the principles given to us by our prophet? Is that your idea of keeping the faith “pure?”

    We will continue to do what we think is best for our religion in the U.S. and in India and in Iran and in Brazil and in….

    I trust the other blog about the Dar-e-Mehr in Dallas was an eye-opener for you that the religion is well and alive and thriving here and will continue to do so.

  • Anonymous

    Mr. Arzan Ghadially,

    Have you read PTA column in Mumbai Samachar…on Govt thinking of taxing BPP.?.. It says Yazdi Desai who makes more than Rs.50 lacs, resides under subsidize housing scheme meant for poor parsis and pays kingly amount of Rs.3,000/- to BPP trust…of which he is a trustee too…Another poor parsi with pure blood like you. See, birds of same feather. Any wonder this man got elected by the likeminded?

  • KoremandShahparast

    Mr. Arzan Ghadially,

    Have you read PTA column in Mumbai Samachar…on Govt thinking of taxing BPP.?.. It says Yazdi Desai who makes more than Rs.50 lacs, resides under subsidize housing scheme meant for poor parsis and pays kingly amount of Rs.3,000/- to BPP trust…of which he is a trustee too…Another poor parsi with pure blood like you. See, birds of same feather. Any wonder this man got elected by the likeminded?