Eminent Parsis fight for liberal priests

Anu Aga and Dr Hector Grant, among others, to support priests who were barred from praying at the Towers of Silence by the Bombay Parsi Panchayat after they conducted Navjots of children from mixed marriages

By Manoj R Nair / Pune Mirror

Fault lines in the 50,000-strong Parsi community were thrown into sharp focus once again with the reformist and the orthodox groups crossing swords over mixed marriages.

Prominent Parsis, including former solicitor general T R Andhyarujina, Anu Aga of the Thermax industrial group and noted gynaecologist Dr Rustom Soonawala have closed ranks over the ban on two community priests who have been endorsing mixed marriages, from praying at the Towers of Silence.

Andhyarujina and Aga have filed applications in the Bombay High Court saying they want to intervene in an appeal filed by former municipal commissioner Jamshed Kanga against an earlier decision by the court to not stay the ban.

Apart from Aga, Andhyarujina and Soonawala, Dr Hector Grant of Pune’s Ruby Clinic and Dilnawaz Variava, former director of Bharat Tiles and wife of former Supreme Court judge Sam Variava have also sought intervention in the matter.

In June 2009, the Bombay Parsi Panchayat (BPP), the community’s apex representative body had barred priests Khushroo Madon and Faramroz Mirza from the cemetery because they had been conducting Navjotes or initiation ceremonies for children from mixed marriages and offering after-death prayers for those opting for non-traditional funerals.

The priests were also restrained from praying at two fire temples controlled by the trust.

Speaking on the issue, Andhyarujina said, “We support the cause of the two priests and we have made an application in the court that we would like to intervene.”

Following the ban, Kanga and former managing director of Tata Chemicals, Homi Khusrokhan filed what is called an originating summons, asking the court to interpret the BPP’s trust deeds to find out whether the organisation had powers to debar the priests. The court had dismissed the application. 

Kanga said, “The originating summons had asked the court to interpret the deeds to find whether the trustees have the authority to debar priests.

But while giving the order, the judge was under the impression that only two of us were interested in the case, which is not true. We have no agenda of our own.

The intervenors (Andhyarujina, Aga, Soonawla and others) simply want to show that they represent the community intelligentsia and raise their voice against fundamentalist decisions.”

While the applications made by the intervenors are primarily meant to show their support for the originating summons, they can also present their views to the court.

  • Palia

    Friends,
    If our ancestors had not made changes, we would still be living in the caves.

  • farzana

    Get ready to receive another entertaining WAPIZ Page in Free Press Journal 😛

  • Boman Patel

    This is an instance of arrogance on part of both sides. On the side of self styled establishhment, it is their adamancy, not to be flexible and accomodative. On the side of so called liberals,the arrogance is out of their belief that middle of the road Parsees can be ignored and are insignificant. There are many Parsees who do not believe in Dhashak mentality. The litigants ought to enlist support of a large number of such Parsees by taking recourse to a signature campaign in support of their case for otherwise the bigots against whom they have a grievance will parrot the same claim,WE WON an election as if their post is that of a Vatican council and not of managing a Trust property.
    So the support has to be broad based. As otherwise litigation can seldom be a remedy for such issues.
    Lastly, I am a bit confused. So what if a couple of Priests are not allowed to practiceon a couple of religios places. After all these ‘banned’ priests cater to a different segment of the community. Moreover not all Fire Temples are controlled by BPP.I still can not fathom where does Trust Deeds of Fire Temples state that first 3 days death ceremonies of a Parsee Zoroastrian born from both Parsee parents can NOT be performed if the body is disposed off otherwise by an alternative system. Are such ceremonies not being performed in Mumbai Fire Temples if the person has expired abroad?.
    If BPP Trustees interfere in functioning of such independent Trust run Fire Temples in this matter and prevent conducting such ceremony, then the cause of grievance would be that they are compelling community members to ‘patronize’ a defunct procedure which was functional earlier.
    This is a more important issue then the issue of ‘acceptance’ and conversion.

  • Siloo Kapadia

    I am so glad that finally a sense of reason is showing up in the community. These BBs (bawaji bullies) must be put in their place. Hopefully there will be change before the community is wiped out in India.

  • hoshang

    It is sad that today majority of our community is ignorantly commenting on religious issues based on their soothing power of reasoning and judgment. Do they know the meaning and responsibility of a Priest in Nature? If these so-called eminent Lawyers and local celebrities would understand the meaning and purpose of rituals, ceremonies and Atash-Behram like people from other religious groups respect their own, there is highly unlikely that we will ever engage ourselves in Madan-Mirza controversy. Parsees have always considered themselves western by thoughts words and deeds and there is nothing wrong in it. It becomes dangerous and anti-religious when they arrogently apply their Oxford lifestyle and ideologies to spiritual laws and processes they have not seen, studied or felt in their life. It becomes dangerous when their human perception supersedes the divine forces in nature whereby challenging the works of Paigambar Saheb asking for someone to evaluate HIS works and legitimacy in our life.

    In reference to Madan & Mirza case, our spiritual laws and their duties as Priest demands certain spiritial ethics unrecorded in the court of law. So here we have a bunch of lawyers and non-Zoroastrian Judge to decide on the legitimacy of HIS DIVINE PLAN and Works for our souls progression. Sounds ridiculous yes, it does. I have read above comments like “Dhansak mentallity” & “Bawaji Bullis”. It is extremely annoying and disturbing to see our own community is against our religious traditions and practices. I would like to ask both of those heretics making the above comments that do you know the spiritual significance of Wedding and Navjote ceremony? Do you know the purpose of Atash Behram & prayers reciting within and its spiritual guardians (not priests) and residents? If your thinking is so corrupted, I doubt if you believe in our prayers and practice everyday!

    My dear Zarathostis, yes, it is waste of time & money in the court of law in the presence of several socio-economic problems – and asking a non-Zarathosti Judge or religiously ignorant Zarathosti Lawyer, businessman or layman to decide or reevaluate HIS spiritual process and structure – (Process and Structure I am referring to spiritual journey & developmental based on precosmogenesis per our religion, otherwise our Oxford-faithful, religiously & by entity-confused Parsee will think that I am referring to Agiary & ceremonies.) I am not a great fan of BPP but their action in this case is very much for the benefit of the people setting precedence for other Priests not to challenge HIS Divine Plan.

    Ervad Hoshang J. Bhadha Ph.D.

  • Adarbahman

    Does this qualify as self promotion exercise or exhibiting self-aggrandizing?

  • hoshang

    This platform is for layman and experts in the area of topic and interest. There is no self promotion or exhibiting self-aggrandizing. When you are consulting a Medical Doctor he will say exactly what & why answers of your sickness and not make any general statement from a medical dictionary. He has to be straightforward and direct and never attempt manipulate facts. Similarly my answer is also addressing the issue and problem in my capacity as an expert (Priest) on the religious topic of qualification, practice & performance of Navjote & Marriage of a non-Zoroastrian. I don’t think you have anything to share on the topic except few Oxford-born insulting, degrading words. Such backward thinking has evidently left our community so ignorant in religious issues that today many Zarathostis bluntly oppose our religion. Look at your Gireban and look at yourself in the mirror, can you identify yourself?

  • Dorab.

    Hoshang’s logic is that in religious matters the priests should be unquestioned final authority. He wants us to overlook the special exceptions made by High Priests in inducting into Zoroastrian fold the wealthy and influential not just in late 20th Century but even before that.
    How does Hoshang account for entry into Fire Temples, Sudreh Kusti wearing menials who are of mixed origin.
    If he considers Priests as experts then they ought to be above board and without blemish and without having made exceptions under the excuse of ‘burden of past gratitude’ and such other meaningless phases. To-day if our Priests do not get due recognition, it is due to their own past deeds. That is the plain undisputed fact. Can he account for actions of Panthaky of Vatcha Gandhi Agiary recently in allowing corpse of a Parsi lady with Hindu name being consigbed to Dakhma and then not performing remaining ceremonies. Can a Panthaky be unaware of the antecedents of the person whose Panthak he holds.?
    And as for disposal of dead, if we go by logic of Hoshang, it is the pall bearers who enter the precincts of Dakhmas not priests. So should we go by opinion of pall bearers? Just
    ponder.

  • Hosi B.Pardiwala

    I am happy to read Bhada’s post in which he is candid enough to say in the first line itself that majority of the Community is commenting on religious issues. Yes Sir, majority are now just fed up of those who want to turn the clock back by a hundred years. If Madan and Mirza are renegades, would Bhada have the courage to label those who performed Wadia Navjotes with the identical adjective of being renegades? Did not the concerned Priests then transgress ‘spiritual laws and duties’? Or is it one yarstick for ordinary Ervards and another for so called Scholar Priests who visit foreign countries thru sponsorships?

    Bhada who lays claim to be a religious expert would do well to do a bit of pondering. Why such bickering and legal tussles were rare a decade ago? Is it not because of formation of a sponsored Organisation out to destroy the very peace and tranquility in the Community in the name of preserving and protecting and bringing the entire Community to ridicule in the eyes of sister communities by indulging in yellow journalism of the worst type in the secular press, courtesy a Amdavadi who has funds to burn. If Bhada is so concerned about community funds being frittered away in Court cases,what has he to say by way of justification for such yellow journalism, that too by patronising a secular paper?

    During the so called national Emergency in 1975-76, all those who opposed the autocracy of the then P.M. were dubbed as anti national. In the same vein, Bhada calls others who do not subscribe to fanaticism as heretics. What gives right to Bhada to label somebody as a heretic. Freedom fighters everywhere are termed as terrorists by despots and same is the case when one calls others as heretics.

    Bhada, thus assumed the role of a self appointed prosecutor, jury and the Judge.

    Individuals like Bhada, who is an ‘expert’ should learn from the needless conflicts within the Community over a century ago between Kadmis and Shehenshais. There was a time when a Kadmi would not enter a Shehehshai Fire Temple and vice versa. Is this segregation in practice to –day.? To day many places of worship are in a financial mess unable to pay for even minimal Kathi. Soon they will be encroached upon by goons with political nexus. Why not hand such FEW non viable fire temples to so called Reformist and let the Fire remain aglow for another century. That does not mean that such inter married can enter other excusive Fire Temples meant for pure persons like Bhada. This will put an end to such Court cases.

    What one should think and how one should live and remember Ahura Mazda can not be decided by others posing as scholars and authorities. We are all matured enough to decide such issues and do not require assistance from anybody else, expert or otherwise. Those who add Degrees and qualifications after their name or prefix their designations and titles like Commodore in the belief that it would add weight and impress the reader ought to know that such practice is a sign of shallowness since such qualifications and designations are unrelated to Religious issues.

  • Ervad Hoshang J. Bhadha Ph.D.

    Dear Hosi,
    Your comments are well-taken. I am with you in most of your comments in fact I am fighting for the same in the community. Those who are misusing and mishandling community resources should be punished. Whatever those BPP or community activists have done or ignored in teh past to retain peace and religious sanctity is not excusable or forgiven and that is exactly why we have to return back to our roots and see what is right as per the scriptures and not by some lawyer, linguist/ scholar from UK/USA telling us what we need to follow to practice our religion. Have you someone from your acquaintance ever tried with Muslim or Hindu community? The language you have used for me would you use the same for your medical doctor who treats your physical illness? Of-course not, because just like you do we all depend on their knowledge to treat us, correct! We never question them why and what medicine has been prescribed. Why are we blindfolded in health issue and not in religious practices? Well, the answer is simple, religion is NOT man-made besides we have no religious authority to or those who are on the seat does selfish, anti-religious duties creating serious tension and disrespect for all in religious profession. Also religion is a divine prescription and interpreted my many and Parsees seek the one that best suits their mindset. Yes, I am going with your thoughts …… However when we prefer to remain blindfolded and sway by the rational thinking on human preferences, needs, aspirations and outcomes of past, unfortunate events we are not applying HIS divine plan for our physical and spiritual journey. Challenging HIS Divine Plan and not any writings of a Priest is equal to disbelief but I suppose you still visit our Agiary & Atash-Behram. If your thoughts are catered to the victims of the past yellow journalism, Shehnshahi & Kadmi issues etc in order to justify your stand for these renegade Priest, there seems to have no meeting-of-minds in seeking solution. Beating the dead horse will not resolve the issue neither being sarcastic about my or somebody else’s credentials would make you look good. I have strongly condemned openly and in writing any anti-religious acts of teh Priests & Behdins – and there are many who have witnessed my stand against such people – whetehr that wrong-doer is a BPP Trustee of the appointed High Priest. I recommend you to convert your negative energies “with sarcasm” into positive, productive source of energy and than lets talk. People like you in our community have spent countless number of hours writing bad about the Priests and religion. Did they gain anything? Money, status, rewards? I don’t think so. I humbly request you to come up with some constructive solution or query instead nof throwing stones at me or anyone. Learn the reasoning of my writing and then respond instead of overflowing your bloodstreams to prove the point.

  • Ervad Hoshang J. Bhadha Ph.D.

    Dear Dorab,
    I concur with your expressions and opinion. I agree with your saying on High Priests & Panthaky of Vaccha Gandhi Agiary. In fact he is the one who initiates half-hedged Priests by demanding Rs.51,000 per candidate knowing the fact that teh boy is not even familiar with basic prayers. Such candidates are performing ceremonies in Agiaries. Who do you think is at gain – obviously Panthaki who hires them as dummy priest and initiators like Panthaki of VG Agiary. People who think the ceremonies of their dear-departed has been performed by such boys is serious mistake. Similarly everybody knows how Dastur Kotwal got a flat in Cusrow Baug via Wadia’s. Dorab, we have such priests living within us are more dangerous than any lay person. I have been working on improving this sytem since last many years but due to lack of support and negative comments haunted by the past events, the progress has been temporarily shadowed. I don’t know if you believe, practice and respect our Faith but people who call me for prayers & ceremonies knows my traditional viewpoint and thus I do prayers at no cost as long as the family is willing to follow our scriptural-based religious laws and injunction. Mix-marriages and Navjote of their kids have no place in my practice however there are few in my area who does who are often respected and called by those families.

    Dorab, you have misunderstood my expressions. MY LOGIC is to LEARN & PRACTICE religion and stop relying on Part-time Priests or so-called scholars who misguide us. In fact most of our traditional community scholars were NOT PRIESTS. If you LEARN from the traditional sources you will be most often guided in the right direction. The cause of you & others throwing stones at me is purely religious ignorance. If we all have a strong base of religion, mutual respect and exchange of ideas and opinions will be more fruitful and productive. Dorab, before you misunderstand me any further in religious matters I recommend you to read some of my articles on http://www.tenets.zoroastrianism.com . Should you have any question feel free to email me at aathravan@hotmail.com

  • Zerxes.Dordi

    Of late, I have tried to abstain from commenting on so called burning issues of the community as that serves little purpose but the thinking mind that one has, I can not resist commenting on certain points of Rev. Bhadha.
    Bhadhaji compares priests with Medicos. He ought to be aware that these days medicos are hauled up in Consumer Forums for negligence and unethical practices. Would Bhadhaji allow his noble profession to be exposed before a non Parsi presiding Officer of a Consumer Forum?.
    Rev. Bhadha seems to be against peace and tranquility within the community when he states ‘ Whatever those BPP or community activists have done or ignored in the past to retain peace and religious sanctity is not excusable or forgiven and that is exactly why we have to return back to our roots’
    If we agree to the thesis of Rev. Bhadha we will only end up having futile controversies and more Court cases.
    Rev. Bhadha asks Hosi whether he would use the same language against a medico as has been used against him. Well as I stated above medicos have been facing court cases for unethical practices.The credibility level of Priests in all religions, not just our faith has suffered immensely due to aberrations of Priestly class themselves.
    How many in the Catholic community take Vatican advice to desist from practicing family planning?
    Rev. Bhadha has conveniently overlooked to condemn initiation of rich and powerful in our fold by so called ‘High” Priests perhaps because such Scholar Priests belong to his own Guild.
    Lastly, I would request Rev. Bhadha to implore his Athornan Mandal to rusticate some Navars who have inter married and get them declared as Renegades as also those priests who performed Wadia Navjotes. Being ‘selective’ in rusticating priests tantamounts to victimisation. Rev. Bhadha, if your cabal continues in being selective in treating RENEGADES, then be prepared to accept that your comments will be treated as nothing more than expressions of a mind conditioned for double standards and will remain paper comments that will be trashed and forgotten very soon.

  • Ervad Hoshang J. Bhadha Ph.D.

    Dear Mr. Dordi,

    First thank you for your comment. Please Do Not abstain from commenting on burning issues as you will be the only one left with doubts which turns into biases and prejudices. Speak up whenever there is an issue in which you need to answer or because you’re an expert. This will help people to learn from you. Our community has been warming seats from many generations as a result today we are facing all these controversies.

    I concur with your expressions on renegade priests. They should be exposed and condemned including Dastur Kotwal who was involved in Wadia Navjote case. I don’t think you have read all of my comments. I perfectly agree with you. The question is, are you going to contribute to fix this problem or just comment and ridicule people.

    About your comment on medical practices, first of all that was just a comparison in reference to “Parsee Challenging Attitude” to religious issues. Pardon me I don’t think you’re familiar with practicing medical profession in India. Consumer Forum and Unethical practices are practical & effective in western countries not in India. I think you need to visit some few medical doctors in India and just observe the patients sitting in the waiting room and those who are attending the doctor for treatment. My own nephew “baby” was killed by the doctors of Parsee General hospital when the doctors went on strike and refused to change oxygen cylinder. We could not do anything. In fact the Hospital Head threatened us that if we complaint they will not release the body of the baby. My brother had to sign a no-liability disclosure when the body was release. This was in the year 1986. Mr. Dordi, please think before you write, anyway,as I said earlier medical profession was just a comparison no need to instigate diversion.

    About renegade Priest, I agree with you all those who are not following the professional ethics (like medical professionals) including thsoe married outside and practice should be debarred. Unfortunately our Behdin brothers and sisters are not helping us achieve or comply in fact they encourage such Priest to be their voice in inter-caste marriage. Example: in Australia there is one Priest who is married to a Europeon lady. Last week he was invited by Z-community in Sydney to perform Jashan where that lady was also allowed to be present. Who is encouraging who and what? You see when community supports such priest then they should not complain when they become their victims. If your thinking is similar to above group you would question me” why that Priest cannot pray or his spouse cannot attend Jashan?”. The answer is too long but just in brief – prayers are not for material or psychological benefits. One (Priests) has to protect, presearve and practice his spiritual energies (ref: Uzeran Geh) before even commit himself to invoking fravashis and recite dedication prayers to create a prayer Faresto for the benefit of the family. In order to accomplish this objective the surrounding environment should be in compliance with the forces in the nature and those inherited by birth. Let me stop here, as I said before one need to know the basics to understand this sacred religion of Paigambar Saheb which neither I or anyone can claim to know in its entirety. That is why I say we all should raise voice against such Priests who does such anti-religious acts and people like you should stop targeting Priests who wants to follow our sacred religion. Your target should be those Priests like the one in Australia and several others in India and around the world who are misusing or selling their professional ethics for money, name & fame liek Kersi Antia of Chicago who was once a staunch practitioner of our Faith is from last 25 years encouraging conversion and mixed marriages. Mr. Dordi, those are your targets not me. I am on the opposite side of the fence.

    It is apparent that expression on “BPP wrongdoings & return back to our roots” was conveniently misinterpreted by you. My expression was to incline towards learning the basics of our religion to understand those controversies created by them in the past so thatw e cannot repeat them in future. Hope you understand now why YOU HAVE TO SPEAK UP AND NOT REMAIN ABSTAIN FROM such forums. This way all your doubts and grudges against someone will be answered. Ofcourse, needless to say, if you are in favor or the acts of those Priests and disregard our sacred religion and least care about our sacred traditions and ceremonies, you are compelled to write negative above me and such reaction is no doubt universally accepted. No one is free and pious on this forum to be an exclusion from doubt and controversy.

    To rusticate those half-hetched navars initiated by people like Aspi Dadachanji from Waccha Gandhi Agiary is not the ultimate solution. I have initiated a program that can only be effective if the community and all Agiary Panthaki’s can support. We have to force those half-hetched Priest to learn their duties in private tutoring or return to Athornan Madressa before any of the Panthanki let them pray in the Agiary or Atash-Behram. I know of few such NAvar & Maratab candidates not even familiar with proper recitation of Yatha Ahu Vairyo. I am quite familiar with those unethical practices and yes in such actions we need support and not negative comments from people. Now I hope you realize that you were targeting a wrong person. That’s good to know, at least that way you meet someone right to discuss.

  • R.Kayani.

    Dr. Bhadha,
    My grandfather who is in his eighties and not adept at Computers is an avid redaer of this blog and has implored me to address a few words of appreciation for you, Dr. Bhadha.My grandfather is livid with the state of affairs in the community and appreciates your corageous, outspoken and bold statements against heretics and double dealer priests. He feels that if his age were not a constraint, he would have become a party to the Court case and would have opposed tooth and nail the reliefs claimed by the petitioners.
    My granfather believes that as a true Athornan, you Sir would be a member of your Athornan Mandal.He feels that had this Mandal censured those who performed Wadia Navjotes and JRD’s farcical uthamna, the things would never have come to this stage. He wants to know why a person of your standing,upright character and integrity did not get those who were involved in such irreligious acts get them denounced as RENEGADES at the relevant time by this Athornan Mandal. Even now it is not too late, he feels as it would send right signals.
    My grandfather assures you of his sincere good wishes should you choose to be a party in the litigation initiated by ignoramus heretics.

  • Meher Havewala

    Thanks Dr. Bhadha for your frankness and clarity of thought. We need more Athornans like you. Yes indeed – Religion is based on FAITH and Science is based on FACTS.

    Well, sir, I have few suggestions. Hopefully you will guide us in the right light.

    Can you plz tell us as to what our SCRIPTURES say about the practice of Dakhma-nashini in absence of scavenger birds or animals?. In current issue of Jame, one Mr. Daboo talks of exposure to Sun as essential and sufficient to dispose off the body but evidentaly our forefathers were wise in having birds of prey. The claim of bringing back vultures has been an empty and elusive.Even after becoming a Trustee. Khojeste Mistree has done nothing but continue with the system of partial burning of corpses by Solar panels, which he was earlier against before getting elected as a Trustee.

    Would you plz give us the SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE on use of Solar Panel in Dakhma nashini practice?
    Does in not amount to burning the body. Afterall one has to return the mortal remains in the same condition as the Maker ordained.

    It would be better if you could substantiate that conversion is forbidden in ZOROASTRIANISM with scriptural reference.

    I fully agree with you that keeping silence on such matters is an act of irreligiousness. Since you Sir, are an authority on the subject, as a lay reader, I can not fathom why you have not moved your forum, – the Athornan Mandal to declare those who performed Wadia Navjotes, as RENEGADES. Afterall such Navjotes took place more than a decade back.

    Besides just writing on this forum seems to serve little purpose. Would you not consider the option of becoming an intervenor in the Court case and recording your say based strictly on religious scriptures knowledge of which, you Sir possess in abundance. Otherwise the rabid reformists will just laugh it off by quoting the saying that barking dogs seldom bite.

    Thank you.

  • Dorab.

    Dr. Bhadha,
    Pl accept my sincere aplogies if my earlier post has offended you. It was not my aim to throw stones at any body but my past experience has been that priestly class preach one thing and practice another. However I am convinced about your sincerity of purpose. You will concede Sir that very few persons amongst Parsees would have acess to internet and even if they have, they are not very comfortable. Since our community news paper JAME is read by all particularly Priests from Gujarati medium,you should explore the possibilty of giving vent to your thoughts thru Jame particularly about those priests who have performed Navjotes of non Parsee industrialists and are holding a high pedestal in priestly profession but have not been expelled for being renegades themselves.

  • Ervad Hoshang J. Bhadha Ph.D.

    Dear Meher Havewala,
    Thank you for your encouraging response. First of all I am not an authority on any subject-matter. I have learned, preach and practice the Faith as few of our community members. I care less for what people say or write when I react in accordance with HIS Divine plan per our scriptures. People have insulted and ignored me & my writings but I am always optimistic of finding one person or a group who would like to follow HIS Divine Wisdom as per scriptures. You can read my articles on http://www.tenets.zoroastrainism.com and see for yourself my standing on religious issues.

    About your question on Dokhmenashini, please refer to my detail article on the subject on the above website. One of the paragraph answers your question “The Vendidad (Ven) Pargarad (Prg) 5 & 8 describes how, when and where a deceased person’s body should be “exposed” to nature by practicing Dokhmenashini. These Paragards are principal, authentic sources of establishing Dokhmenashini as a Zarathustri practice with no exception. In Ven. Prg. 8:2, it is said that “we, Zarathustris should always wish for Dokhmenashini” – “Dakhma Aeshyaan”. It explains that Dokhma is a place where Khurshed Nagirasni (direct rays of sun-light) is abundant, a place which has Talisms of PaviKat, is the only place where a deceased body should be “exposed” to nature. If body is “disposed” by any other method, Druj-I-Nasu will reduce the speed of this earth advancing towards Farshogard i.e. to say, Druj-I-Nasu will inhibit Urvaan’s progression. In the same para it is stated that, if we cannot find a Dokhma in the vicinity, (such as Zarathustris in countries other than India & Pakistan), we can build a temporary Pavi Kat and place the body inside the boundaries to stop spreading Druj-I-Nasu in the surrounding atmosphere. Ven.Prg.10:14 explains this kind of temporary “Kat” for such a purpose. It is mentioned that, the dead body must be “exposed” to Dokhma as soon as we find the nearest one. The place where the body was rested must be kept excluded by having a Divo or fire in the presence of a person reciting Avesta Manthras continuously for three days. If the body is not removed as soon as possible, that place has to be demolished and no one is recommended to stay on it as that area is considered full of Druj-I-Nasu. Anyone who stays on it will be captivated by Druj with its power to control the individual thought process, restricting his/ her Farshogard.”

    I am not a Saosyant or Rainidar to suggest an alternative method of disposal as some of the Priests and laymen are suggesting to the community. I restrict my opinion to the scriptures and what our history dictates. Even in the worst of the worse environmental situation, I prefer my body to be in Dokhma, period. Dokhma and that is what I have repeatedly instructed to my wife and my kids. Dokhma is a Pavikat area consecrated for the disposal of Zarathostis. Our religion dictates the same and we are authority to change HIS plan or challenge HIS Wisdom displayed as per Vendidad. People have manipulated the explanation of Vendidad in many different ways to instill their idea to supersede Vendidad. The idea of having Solar panels is very much close to Khurshed-nagirashni as it transmits the sun-rays to the body to attain the purpose. Only hurdle is those rays are transmitted via an instrument which can distort the composition of the energy which can be seen as non-acceptable from scriptural standpoint. One has to understand the role of Meher Yazad (Sun-Rays) as part of Khurshednagirashni and its composition corresponding to energies made for the human body towarsd Farshogard as per the laws of Ahuradat (one of thsoe nine immortalities created by Ahu in regulating “Motion” towards salvation of all souls. I guess, it must be too heavy for any layman to understand …… Ok here’s a brief explanation of Meher Yazad – “The Meher Yazad in conjunction with Rashne Rast Yazad, Asho Sarosh Yazad and Astad Yazad delivers Dadar Ahuramazdas judgement to a ravaan on the dawn of the 4th day after the demise of its last human re-incarnation. Moreover thereafter Meher Yazad decides the nature of punishment to be meted out, which in due course will be given out. Meher Yazad has supremacy over all the Atash inside our bodies and those who worship Him acquire straightforwardness because this Yazad advocates faithfulness, honesty and integrity.”

    About Khjeste Mistri ……. another Harvard student. I have nothing to say about him. A general comment on any scholar or layman appointed to such position has tendency to conveniently forget where he/she has come from ….. Very few people remain humble and honest to our scriptures, prayers and religion even after climbing the heights of their prosperity. Humility is one of the most important characteristic described in our religion that can bring human one step closer to Ahura-Mazda. This characteristic can bring a person closer to HIS Divine Plan thru attunement exercises as per our religion.

    I am not living in India so its practically impossible for me to be the intervenor in court case. The best person in fact the only one who I would think is the master and brilliant scholar on the issue is Ervad (Dastur) Kaikhusroo N. Dastur – newly appointed Navsari Dastur who is also a Lawyer by profession.

    So you realize that I am not a part of any Athornan Mandal to have any say in the Renegade Priests and Navjotes of Wadia’s a decade ago. I have three such priest in my area who does such acts and compromised religious services. People from my area who are seeking a Priest to comply with their “compromises” will never call or consult me. I have rasied my voice against their services but with no results – why? – the answer is as above.

    I agree with your saying on writing on this forum however it is better to educate majority on teh issue to be the community Rathestars for the future than to spend time on some legal issue that is not in the hands of common people and minority Priest like me. Reformist will bark and mutilate our scriptures and religious integrity by many other ways besides legal system because we have majority in our community constantly seeking solutions (excuses) to deviate from our traditional, sacred structure. Dokhmenashini, mix-marriages, conversion, short-cut in daily prayers, wearing tank-top Sudreh without nine parts for fashion and physical exposure etc etc. There are people who are intellectually tallented to misinterpret all of the above & more to provide solutions when people like me are ridiculed and degraded for following our ancient scriptural-based traditions.

    Hope this will help.

    This ancient scripture of the Zoroastrians clearly mentions that when the seed of a Zoroastrian is mixed with that of a non-Zoroastrian, it is a great affront to Ahura Mazda and the forces of Righteousness.

  • Ervad Hoshang J. Bhadha Ph.D.

    Hello Mr Kayani,
    Thank you very much for your kind words. I am teaching religion since last 25 years to various Zoroastrian groups around the world. I am not living in India so my physical absence is not letting me be a part of any local group and their Agenda. Whenever I come across any renegade Priest issue or some Behdin asking for compromised prayers or ceremonies, I am the first one to educate them and refuse to participate. However such behdin’s do get access to others who can do those services in the way they want and thus my role or voice is considered minority. I am always for reliogious educate and I will do the right way or I will not at all. I do not pray or serve for money because I realize that any wrongdoing on my part as Athravan has thousand fold effect on my urvaan than any dear-departed urvaan for whom I am offering my service. I rather die poor than to die rich with all these deeds in my Girebaan to respond to Dahm Rashnu & Sarosh Yazad.

    Please convey my best wishes to your grandfather and assure him that this Athravan is also a Rathestar of Zarathosti religion and community and will remain the same until the last breathe.

  • Ervad Hoshang J. Bhadha Ph.D.

    Dear Dorab,
    I am indebted, respect and take responsibilities of my being an Athravan, a gift bestowed upon me by Ahura-Mazda.I undersatnd your saying “priestly class preach one thing and practice another”. Each individual is different and not everyone of us face the adverse circumstances or people doing wrong in this world. Always have an open-mind and expectation to find good people also living under HIS umbrella. That does not make me good to say that as I may be equally corrupted as anyone (HE IS THE JUDGE) but in religious matters, I have trained myself to follow the scriptural-based guidance for religious practices and following traditions. I will do right or refuse to do at all.

    About your comment on community Gujarati readers of Jame and my writings, well since I am not in india, if someone wants to publish they may do so as they wish however in many instances I have found that the editors are mutilating the contents by revisions which most often takes away the benefit and purpose of the article. As mentioned, I have written many articles on socio-religious issues which you can read on http://www.tenets.zoroastrianism.com. My voice against rich, policitians, attorney’s and instrialists will not be significant to control renegades in our community. What I do is educate the community who can desseminate information to other groups where each group can act as Rathestar and stop such priest performing anti-religious acts. We cannot stop them by any means – legal sytem or mandates. The community as a whole in each area should unite and demand properly trained, educated priest and do not corrupt them with money to perform wrong acts. In my 35 years of Priest prfession i ahve seen many instances where something is wrong happening while ceremony is in progress but non will get up to correct it, including stopping a non-zoroastrian entering the Agiary, attending ceremonies; someone without cap, sudreh, kusti attending the ceremony, someone placing his/her hand inside the Pavikat area of Atash Adaran dome to place sukhad or take rakya etc etc The community has to learn religion and be consistent in applying religious practices and above all help the priest to attain the desired objective of that event, surrounding or prayer.

    Hope this will help.

  • Meher Havewala

    Dear Dastoorji, You’re indeed very knowledgeable as far as religion is concerned, and I have not an iota of doubt about your Scholarship.

    However, Sir, I ‘m fully aware that Vendidad stresses on Dakhma mode of disposal of death; my specific question to you Sir is, and I’m repeating,
    #What do our scriptures say regarding practicing Dakhma-nashini in conditions where scavenger birds and animals are absent? Can we keep on practicing Dakhma-nashini even if there are no vultures, and bodies lie undisposed, rotting for months?

    #Secondly, earlier Khojeste Mistree is on record that due to Solar Panels bodies get charred. Apart from this observation of this Religious Scholar, is on record that such burning of bodies is theologically wrong. It is a different issue that he has now chosen to evade his own statements on record. If his past comments are to be believed then your contention that ‘the idea of having Solar panels is very much close to Khurshed-nagirashni as it transmits the sun-rays to the body to attain the purpose’ is contrary to what Khojeste has said. Moreover a corpse ought to get disposed off in a time period of 3 days i.e. before the 4th day, which does not happen. In fact during monsoon months that last for 4 months Sun is under cloud which makes it imperative to have scavenging birds. Burial of bones would also mean burying the skull which is likely to be misused by those who practice necromancy.

    The Vendidad by all means prescribes the Dakhma system. I am told that it also says what happens when a Dakhma stands on the earth for more than 50years. But I wont get into that. The Vendidad,I believe, also prescribes Aramgarhs or graveyards. As a result of which there are aramgarhs all over the world. There’s one which I’ve seen with my own eyes near ABC Farms at Pune. The gates also hold the symbol of Asho Farohar.
    You might have seen pictures of Tombs of Persian Kings that confirms the Achemanians who were Zoroastrians did not practice Dakma system. Not just the Kings and Royalties, but even common folks had burial grounds. There is an Archaeological evidence at the Burnt city near Zabol that has revealed a graveyard for women.

    #Thirdly, I would further like to have your learned opinion on curtailment of Muktad days from earlier 18 to present day, 10 days.

    Before ending Sir, let me put across my thoughts. It is my belief that Athornan Mandal is meant for all Athornans/Priestly class universally and I am surprised to learn that just because you happen to be outside India you can not raise your voice against practices which you consciously deem to be wrong.

    # Regarding the issue of “conversion” to Zoroastrianism, as I had requested, I would like to to be enlightened about scriptural evidence that says ‘Ahura Mazda forbids conversion’. That mixing of seed doesn’t amount to ‘conversion’ …for example, if I come across another lady who wants to accept Mazdayasni faith, I would like to convince her with solid scriptural verse that specifically forbids her from being accepted in Zoroastrian faith.

    As for the Court case, the issue has religious angle and it is my strong belief that any Priest irrespective of his location can become a party. You have mentioned the name of Er. K.N. Dastur a legal luminary with vast experience and knowledge both in field of Religion as also in Legal matters. You can consider giving him a Power of Attorney if you are genuinely interested in upholding the right religious practices and frustrating the offending Reformists.This is just my suggestion. It is for you to decide the right course of action

    Sir, mistake me not for being a supporter of heretics but my own aim is to strenghthen the dakhma system with scavenging birds as earlier promised by Khojeste and as for conversions I want to arm myself to be able to give befitting reply to those who ask ‘where is conversion not permitted in texts?’
    Your contextual guidance will be highly appreciated.

    Thank You

    With salutations. Khshnotare Ahure Mazdao.

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    Dear Ervad Hoshang J. Bhadha,
    Why are you not adressing the Q.s of Mr.Meher Havewala We here are you going to contribute to fix this problem by once and for all by accepting who ever is whole heartedly accepting our religion. Sitting far away and saying expose Dastur Kotwal who was involved in Wadia Navjote or ask advice of Ervad Kaikhusroo N. Dastur whose both sons themselves are inter-faith married whose children are inniciated into the religion by him himself. Let us also put him in the list of Renegade Priests and BAN him first.

    KHSHNAOTHRE AHURAHE MAZDAO

  • Ervad Hoshang J. Bhadha Ph.D.

    Replying to MEHER Havewala,

    I have posted these answers earlier. I guess it was somehow inot posted or is there somebody hijacking my postings? Don’t know. I have posted my answer below.

    Since “ZARATHUSTRA ZARATHOSTI” you have allerted me with your recent posting and though you wish to be annonymous, first let me answer your concerns on fixing this problem – it is not so easy as you may think it is. Even just for restricting Madan & Mirza, we have to have a unanimous decision on banning their services not just by appealing to the court but also by getting consensus from all BPP Trustees, Panthaki’s of all Agiary/Atash Behram from all over Maharashtra. If we are successful in weakening the infrastructure, the court ruling will be influenced by such community resolution regardless of who says what?

    About my comment on K.N. Dastur, his children has married outside and that’s not his fault. You cannot ban someone who has not committed any anti-religious act. As far as I know him he is very knowledgeable in religious matters and a good Lawyer. The question is will he come forward, just like he did in debating against Ali Jafarey in WZ Congress to support our religion? Both Kotwal & Dastoor’s children are married outside. They are not the instigators of their children’s wrong-doing! This is what we are paying for our Parent’s ignorance on acceptance of “Freedom of Religion & Life-style” It is the community acceptance and support of rich & wealthy in upholding such decisions of young generation that should be BANNED immediately. Try to undertand the deep-rooted cause of all controversies. We have to enforce religious education at all levels. If we are successful then and then only we can get support to take action against these renegade priests. Banning all from religious services is not the solution. It will aggreviate the situation and offer fuel to disrespect and lack of interest in religious matters. Socio-religious issues are handled intelligently and not like politicians and goons.

    ______________________________________________

    Dear Meher,

    Let me answer your questions however I encourage you to attend my webinar this week-end. I will be covering some portion of your Q&A.

    #What do our scriptures say regarding practicing Dakhma-nashini in conditions where scavenger birds and animals are absent? Can we keep on practicing Dakhma-nashini even if there are no vultures, and bodies lie undisposed, rotting for months?

    SCRIPTURES ARE OUR ULTIMATE SOURCE OF GUIDANCE. DOKHMENASHINI PRESCRIBED IN VENDIDAD IS PER THE LAWS OF NATURE AND NOT FOR HUMAN CONVENIENCE OR THOSE METHODOLOGIES GIVEN IN ANTICIPATION OF MODERN-DAY LIFE STYLE OR HUMAN EXPECTATIONS. YOUR QUESTION ON VULTURES ……. WE ARE AT THE MERCY OF ALL THOSE MONEY-CHASING SCAVENGERS WHO ARE SEEKING OPPORTUNITIES TO DESTROY THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT FOR BUILDING HIGH-RISE BUILDINGS & COMMERCIAL CENTERS ….. DESTROYING THE NATURAL INHABITANCE OF VULTURES WE EMPLOY FOR FINAL DISPOSAL OF DEAD BODY. ALSO PARSEES ARE ALWAYS SEEKING CONVENIENCE TO HAVE DOKHMA CLOSER TO THEIR HOME IN BOMBAY. I DON’T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER, WHILE BUILDING GODREJ BAUG AND SURROUNDING HIGH-RISE BUILDINGS, THE BREAKING OF STONES AND EQUIPMENTS MADE SO MUCH NOISE THAT IT DESTROYED THE NATURAL LIFE OF VULTURES. IF SUCH CONSTRUCTIONS ARE PERMITTED MOST DEFINATELY WE COULD NOT RETAIN THAT NATURAL ENVIRONMENT. THE CHOICES I FEEL REASONABLE ARE: TO REACTIVATE OLD DOKHMA IN ANDHERI OR OTHER LOCATIONS IN RURAL AREA OR EMPLOY SCAVENGER ANIMALS TO DISPOSE-OFF THE HUMAN-REMAINS IN DOKHMA. THERE ARE MANY EMOTIONAL AND PRACTICAL SIDES OF EMPLOYING SUCH CHOICES HOWEVER IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY, THOSE ARE THE BEST CHOICES AT THE MERCY OF THIS LAND SCARCITY AND URBAN LIFE-STYLE.

    #Secondly, earlier Khojeste Mistree is on record that due to Solar Panels bodies get charred. Apart from this observation of this Religious Scholar, is on record that such burning of bodies is theologically wrong.

    KHOJESTE IS NO AUTHORITY OVER SCRIPTURAL WRITINGS NEITHER HE IS A SCHOLAR OF ANY PART OF OUR RELIGION. SOMEONE COMPLETING RELIGIOUS COURSE IN OXFORD UNIVERSITY AND SPEAK SHAKESPEARE-ENGLISH DOES NOT BECOME A MESSIAH. NEITHER READING BOOKS AND BECOMING SELF-MADE SCHOLAR TO PROPAGATE RELIGION WITH EMBEDDED PERSONAL VIEWS CAN MAKE SOMEONE A TRULY KNOWLEDGEABLE FIGURE. IF SOLAR-PANEL TECHNOLOGY IS UTILIZED TO GENERATE ELECTRICITY TO BURN THE CORPSE THEN IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. IF SOLAR PANELS ARE USE TO MAXIMIZE THE INTENSITY OF SUN-RAYS THEN IT IS CONSIDERED REASONABLE. AGAIN, IN MONSOON DAYS, DECEASED BODIES ARE AT THE MERCY OF NATURE. REMEMBER, THE PURPOSE OF HAVING A DOKHMA IS TO ENCLOSE THE DECEASED BODY IN PAAVIKAT AREA SEPARATE FROM EARTH AND CREATIONS AFFECTING THE PROGRESSION CYCLE. AFTER THE DEATH OF A PERSON, THE NATURE TAKES OVER ITS INGREDIENTS – AIR, FIRE, WATER, EARTHLY ELEMENTS, IN TECHNICAL TERM FOUR ANASARS THAT OUR BODY IS COMPOSED OFF. OUR DUTY IS NOT TO CHASE OR GLORIFY THE DEAD SHELL BUT IMMORTAL SOUL VIA OUR PRAYERS. WE HAVE TO PERFORM OUR DUTY TO UTILIZE DOKHMA FOR DISPOSAL UNLESS OTHERWISE ANY OTHER METHODOLOGY PRESCRIBED BY OUR NEXT RAINIDAR SAHEB, PERIOD.

    The Vendidad by all means prescribes the Dakhma system. The Vendidad, I believe, also prescribes Aramgarhs or graveyards. As a result of which there are aramgarhs all over the world.

    YES, VENDIDAD PRESCRIBED TEMPORARY RESTING PLACE FOR THE BODY INSIDE A SAFE, COVERED UNDERGROUND PLACE (IF THE PERSON DIES AFTER SUN-SET)LESS THAN 12 HOURS BEFORE IT IS TAKEN TO DOKHMA. REMEMBER THIS METHOD APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN PRESCRIBED WITH ANCIENT, RURAL LIFE-STYLE. TODAY WE HAVE BUNGLI’S TO KEEP IT SAFE. THIS SHOULD NOT BE MISTAKEN WITH ACCEPTANCE OF BURIAL METHOD. READ MY DOHMENASHINI ARTICLE ON THE WEBSITE. VENDIDAD DOES NOT RECOMMEND ARAMGAH. YES IN THOSE DAYS KINGS AND LAYMAN MAY HAVE USED THAT METHODOLOGY WHICH YOU CAN SEE HAS ELEVATED AREA ABOVE THE GROUND. THUS DEAD BODY IS LEFT UNTOUCHED BY THE EARTH AND ITS LIFE-GIVING / PROGRESSING ELEMENTS. AS AN ARGUMENT ON PRACTICING THIS METHOD, PRACTICALLY IT IS IMPOSSIBLE AS IN INDIA WE HAVE NO LAND TO MAKE ARAMGAH’S NEITHER EACH DECEASED FAMILY-MEMBER CAN AFFORD TO OWN THAT SPACE FOREVER.

    #Thirdly, I would further like to have your learned opinion on curtailment of Muktad days from earlier 18 to present day, 10 days.

    18 DAYS OF MUKTAD IS CORRECT. THE MAIN PLANK OF ALL THOSE WHO ARGUE THAT MUKTAD DAYS ARE ONLY 10, IS THE THREE AVESTA WORDS, DASA PAIRI KHSHAFANO OCCURRING IN KARDA 13 IN THE FRAVARDIN VASHT, WHERE IT IS STATED THAT, DURING THE HAMASPATHMAEDEM GAHAMBAR, WHICH COMES TOWARDS THE END OF THE YEAR, THE FRAVASHIS COME TO THE VEESA, DESIRING HELP AND THEY MOVE ABOUT HERE FOR 10 NIGHTS. THIS IS THE LITERAL TRANSLATION OF PART OF PARAGRAPH 49 OF THE FRAVARDIN VASHT, DONE BY SOME SCHOLARS. FOR OUR PURPOSE, THE OPERATIVE WORDS ARE DASA AND KHSHAFAN. NOW THE LATTER HAS NOT BEEN INTERPRETED IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT BY OUR PARSEE SCHOLARS. KHSHAFAN OR KHSHAPAN MEANS EITHER “DARKNESS” OR “NIGHT”. IN THE
    FRAVARDIN YASHT, THE WORD KHSHAPANO CAN BE TAKEN AS GENITIVE SINGULAR OF KHSHAPAN, MEANING, “OF, OR BELONGING TO DARKNESS”, I.E., “EVIL”; OR IF IT IS “DARKNESS” OR “EVIL” ALLUDED TO, MEANS THE DARKNESS THAT DESCENDS ON EARTH, BECAUSE OF THE SINS COMMITTED BY MANKIND.THE WORD DASA = 10. BUT, ACCORDING TO NUMEROLOGY, IT ALSO INDICATES, “COMPLETION” OR “PERFECTION”. THE WORD ‘PAIRI’ =SURROUNDING, I.E. TO SURROUND. AT THE END OF EVERY YEAR, BECAUSE OF THE UNMITIGATED SINS OF MANKIND, THE FORCES OF KHSHAFAN ARE FORMED, WHICH SURROUND THE EARTH, VIRTUALLY, STRANGLING THE LIFE-BREATH OF THE EARTH! TO COUNTER THESE ULTRA-POWERFUL SATANIC FORCES OF THAT TIME THE FRAVASHIS OF DIVERSE GRADES – FROM THE YAZATIC TO
    THOSE OF ORDINARY DEPARTED SOULS, COME DOWN (VEECHARENTI). THUS, IN PARA 49, THE WORDS DASA PAIRI KHSHAFANO ARE TO BE TAKEN IN THIS TECHNICAL SENSE. ELUCIDATING THESE WORDS BEAUTIFULLY, THE LATE DR. FRAMROZE S. CHINIWALLA SAYS, “THOSE ARE HIGHLY ESOTERIC TECHNICAL TERMS, WHICH DEMONSTRATE THE FACTUAL KNOWLEDGE” ABOUT THE FRAVASHIS. IT IS THE MISFORTUNE OF THE PARSEE COMMUNITY THAT SOME LATTERDAY DASTURS AND PARSEE SCHOLARS MISERABLY FELL FOR THE PSEUDO-CLAPTRAP OF SUPERFICIAL TRANSLATIONS OF THIS VERY PERTINENT PARAGRAPH AND ALMOST OVERNIGHT, TORPEDOED THEAGE-OLD TRADITION OF CELEBRATING THE MUKTAD FOR 18 DAYS!! WE SAY THIS WITH CONVICTION, BECAUSE, OUR MODERN SCHOLARS FAIL TO ANSWER TWO PERTINENT QUESTIONS THAT ARISE: (1) HOW DOES ONE EXPLAIN THE RECITATION OF THIS VERY PARAGRAPH OF THE FRAVARDIN YASHT IN THE BAAJ CEREMONY OF THE DEPARTED SOUL ON ITS DEATH ANNIVERSARY? AND (2) HOW DOES ONE EXPLAIN THE MILLENIA-OLD TRADITION OF THE PARSEES OF CELEBRATING THE FRAVARDEGAN HINGAAM FOR 18 DAYS? WE SHALL ANSWER BOTH THESE QUESTIONS AND VINDICATE THE WISDOM OF OUR SPIRITUALLY ADVANCED FOREFATHERS. ACCORDING TO THE RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE, THE YEAR IS DIVIDED INTO TWO GROUPS OF FESTIVE OCCASIONS (HINGAAM). BOTH THESE GROUPS OF TIME ARE GOVERNED BY KHORDAD MESHASPAND. ONE IS CALLED YAAIRYA AND THE OTHER SARED, WHO ARE THE CO-WORKERS OF KHORDAD. THE DEATH ANNIVERSARY OF THE DEPARTED IS A PART OF THE SARED HINGAAM. AT THIS TIME, I.E. ON THE DAY OF THE BAAJ, FRAVASHI OF THE DEPARTED SOUL WANTS TO TAKE THE SOUL TOWARDS THE LAST – 6TH GAHAMBAR, THE HAMASPATHMAEDEM GAHAMBAR. THEREFORE, SHE, THAT IS THE FRAVARSHI, WANTS TO BREAK AND DESTROY THE EVIL KERDAR (THE FEMININE APPARITION), VIZ., KHSHAFAN. THUS, THE DEATH ANNIVERSARY DAY OF THE DEPARTED SOUL BECOMES A VERITABLE MINI HAMASPATHMAEDEM HINGAAM FOR THE DEPARTED WHEN THE KHSHAFAN HAS TO BE DESTROYED. FOR THIS REASON, THE SAME PARAGRAPH OF THE FRAVARDIN YASHTI, WHICH REFERS TO THE FRAVARDEGAN DAYS, IS RECITED IN THE BAAJ CEREMONY, ON THE DEATH ANNIVERSARY (THE BAAJ DAY). WHAT DOES THIS SHOW? THAT “DASA PAIRI KHSHAFANO” DOES NOT ONLY MEAN MOVING ROUND ON 10 NIGHTS, BUT SOMETHING MUCH MORE! THIS AUTOMATICALLY BRINGS US TO THE NEXT QUESTION: THAT, IF IT DOES NOT ONLY MEAN 10 NIGHTS, HOW DID THE TRADITION OF 18 NIGHTS OR DAYS COME ABOUT? WE REITERATE THAT THE SOULS OF THE DEPARTED ZARTHOSTIS COME DOWN TO EARTH FOR ONLY 10 DAYS DURING THE FASLI FRAVARDEGAN PERIOD. THEY COME ENSCONCED IN THE VEHICLES AND CUSTODY OF THE HIGHLY EXALTED ASHAUNAM FRAVASHIS. THESE 10 DAYS ARE A PART OF THE FRAVARDEGAN OR MUKTAD HINGAAM. THERE ARE ALSO REASONS FOR THE NUMBER OF DAYS BEING 10 FOR THE COMING DOWN OF THE SOULS. BUT, WE WON’T GO INTO THE DETAILS OF THAT ASPECT, WHILE ANSWERING OUR QUESTIONER. OUR MAIN QUESTION IS, WHETHER THE FRAVARDEGAN HINGAAM DAYS ARE 10 OR 18, AND IF SO, WHY. WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN THAT THE KHSHAFAN OR DARKNESS OR EVIL ENVELOPES THE EARTH DURING THE LAST DAYS OF EACH YEAR. TO REDUCE AND DESTROY THIS KHSHAFAN, THE ASHAUNAM FRAVASHIS (THE COMBINED FRAVASHIS OF THE SEVEN AMESHASPANDS AND OF THE PERFECTED SOULS OF THE NUMEROUS YAZATIC INTELLIGENCES) COME DOWN. THESE FRAVASHIS OF THE YAZATIC FORCES REMAIN HERE FOR THE FIRST 10 DAYS PLUS 7 DAYS OF THE NEW YEAR, WHICH BELONG TO THE 7 AMESHASPANDS NAMELY, FROM ROJ HORMAZD TO ROJ AMARDAD! THE AMESHASPANDS REPLENISH KHURSHED YAZAD WHOSE MATERIAL FORM IS THE SUN, WITH THE BENEVOLENT YAZATIC CURRENTS. THEREFORE, THESE 7 DAYS OF THE AMESHASPANDS IN THE MONTH OF FRAVARDIN ARE AS IMPORTANT AS THE FIRST TEN DAYS OF THE FRAVARDEGAN DAYS! AND THE INVOCATION OF THE ASHAUNAM FRAVASHI DURING THESE 7 DAYS IS DONE WITH THE WORDS, DAHAM VISPESHA…. DURING THESE 7 DAYS, IF THE BAREHS (BEHDAANS) ARE STILL THERE, AND IF THE MUKTAD CEREMONIES CONTINUE, TO BE PERFORMED, THE FRAVASHIS OF THE SOULS OF THE DEPARTED ARE IMMENSELY PLEASED. ONE POINT STILL REMAINS TO BE CLARIFIED. THE FIRST 10 DAYS PLUS THE NEXT 7 DAYS MAKE 17 DAYS IN ALL. THE 18TH DAY IS THE ASHISHWANGH ROJ OF THE LAST MONTH, SPENDARMAD, WHICH IS THE DAY FOR MEDITATING ON THE “INVITATION TO THE FRAVASHIS” AND THE SOULS WHO’D BE COMING THE NEXT DAY. IN GUJARATI, ITS CALLED, “LIEN NA MITHRA KARVANO DIVAS”. THUS, THE 18 FRAVARDEGAN DAYS, I.E. DAYS, WHICH DESTROY DARKNESS AND EVIL AND SPREAD PLENTY AND PROSPERITY ALL ROUND CONSIST OF:
    A) ROJ ASHISHWANGH OF MAH SPENDARMAD – THE INVITATION DAY.
    B) B) PANJ-I-KEH OR THE 5 SMALL DAYS OF THE FRAVARDEGAN HINGAAM.
    C) C) PANJ-I-MEH OR THE 5 BIG DAYS OF THE FRAVARDEGAN HINGAAM.
    D) D) THE 7 DAYS OF THE AMESHASPANDS – FROM ROJ OHRMAZD TO ROJ AMERDAD OF THE MONTH FRAVARDIN.

    # Regarding the issue of “conversion” to Zoroastrianism, as I had requested, I would like to to be enlightened about scriptural evidence that says ‘Ahura Mazda forbids conversion’.

    NO WHERE IN THE SCRIPTURE IT IS EXPLICITELY WRITTEN THAT CONVERSION IS FORBIDDEN ……… NEITHER OUR SCRIPTURES SAY THAT WE HAVE TO EAT FOOD OR BREATHE TO LIVE HIS DIVINE PLAN. THEN WHY ARE WE NOT QUESTIONING THOSE PHYSICAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL & CARNAL NEEDS? SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.

    YOU ARE ASKING ME THE ANSWER ON SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE OF “AHURA MAZDA FORBIDS CONVERSION”. FIRST OF ALL WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND AHURA-MAZDA. WHO IS HE AND WHERE IS HE COMING FROM. (WILL COVER IN MY WEBINAR THIS SATURDAY). WHY NOT CONVERSION OR “MIXED MARIAGE” IN ZARATHOSTI RELIGION REQUIRES DETAIL ANALYSIS OF AND FIRST LOOK INTO THE PRECOSMOGENESIS AS PER FRAVARDIN YAST & ZAMYAT YAST. WHO WE ARE, WHERE WE COME FROM, WHAT ARE WE MADE OF AND WHERE WE ARE GOING. ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS WILL MAKE YOU REALIZE THAT YOU NEED NOT SEARCH ANY FURTHER ON THOSE ABOVE CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES. IN ONE SENTENCE, CONVERSION IS MAN-MADE CONCEPT WHICH IS NOT ENCOURAGED BY RELIGION SIMPLY BECAUSE BY CONVERSION YOU ARE ENFORCING RELIGIOUS PRACTICES ON THAT HUMAN WHOSE SOUL IS DESTINED TO PROGRESS THRU A SPECIFIC PATH AS PER HIS DIVINE PLAN. WE ARE NO ONE TO CHALLENGE HIS WISDOM AND SATISFY OUR MATERIAL CONSCIOUSNESS BY HARMING THE SPIRITUAL ORDER IN NATURE. IF YOU WANT TO LEARN MORE ON THOSE LINES ATTEND MY THIS WEEK’S WEBINAR. I WILL COVER SOME PORTION OF THIS TOPIC IN CONNECTION WITH PRECOSMOGENESIS. SEND AN EMAIL TO DAINAZ AT DAINAZ.ILLAVA@GMAIL.COM AND SHE WILL SEND YOU A LINK TO HEAR THE LIVE WEBINAR.

    HOPE I HAVE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS.

    REGARDS,
    ERVAD HOSHANG J. BHADHA

  • Shaimak Madon

    Meher,
    In one breath (to use his own words) Er. Hoshang Bhadha says that ‘Both Kotwal & Dastoor’s children are married outside’ and that ‘This is what we are paying for our Parent’s ignorance on acceptance of “Freedom of Religion & Life-style” . So Er. Bhadha feels that respective fathers as parents are ignorant yet they have inherent and perhaps divine right to frame rules for lesser Parsees and sermonize and get fatwas issued. Preach the OPPOSITE of what your own kith and kin PRACTICE is the ‘principle’ of such men of Religion.Any surprise that such men in white are not held in respect?
    In the issue of Jame dated 18th WAPIZ has gone on record to say that one “High” Priest had urged Yezdi Desai to do all within his powers to stall construction of residential building in the Lal Baug Agiary complex. As usual, unwittingly the authors of this statement admit that even Ahura Mazda does not listen to advice of such “High” Priests for creating obstacles and hurdles in the path of community welfare. Well done WAPIZ. Keep it up.

  • zan

    Sir,
    Its so strange tht every nw and than we cum across agents of God who claim to be God’s sole appointed spokesmen. They issue fatwas on Almighty’s behalf and all those who dont agree wid their fatwas r called deformists and heretics. WAPIZ also think they r sole arbiters of Almighty who r given teh sole ‘HOLY’ rights to interpret Prophit Zoroastra’s relijun,
    In Jame dated 18th july, WAPIZ claim tht Jamaspasa had askd Yazdi Desai of WAPIZ to create hurdles and stumbling blocks (do all things within ur power) to stop teh construction of Hilla Towers.
    Nw u see, Hilla Towers r built much aginst High Priest’s wishes and much aginst teh wishes of WAPIZ…wid a clear verdict, HIGH PRIESTS PROPOSES BUT AHURAMAZDA DISPOSES. So, sir, pls think be4 judging others as heretics or deformist. Ahura Mazda is teh only judge and he has not appointed u or no one to do his duty.

  • Ervad Hoshang J. Bhadha Ph.D.

    Meher & Zan
    I concur with you both. There is hypocricy and favoritism within power-hungry, selfish Priest and laymen within our community. I am not familiar with WAPIZ Action and Hilla Tower issue. The question is, can you and I do something about it? Our community selected these people to be at those position so we should know how to unthrown them also correct? Well, any suggestions?

    About my using the word HERETIC meaning “somebody whose opinions, beliefs, or theories in any field are considered by others in that field to be extremely unconventional or unorthodox.” The practices of priests are anti-religious not because somebody thinks, writes or looks at our traditions but because it is as per our scriptures going against those fields and boundaries form in the nature by HIS Divinities connected to our human life which is explicitly defined in our religion which were penetrated or violated to satisfy human convenience. We believe in Science – theories in physics & chemistry for unknown substance unseen by our naked eyes but when somebody is show the unknown, invisible as per our scriptures we refute it with a smile. Why? The about fact on those Priests is based on the similar pattern. What they are violating or destroying in nature is conveniently or ignorantly unseen and their human actions are considered justified. A simple question, ask your physics professor “HOW & WHY there is an activity in atom, the smallest part in the universe”. I bet he cannot answer. Well, the answer is in our scriptures. So you see, what you don’t see or comprehend is already prescribed in our religion thousands of years ago. Unfortunate are those in our community who do not respect and practice HIS WISDOM. Never challenge HIS WISDOM. And yes, instead of writing negatives about some even & people lets talk something constructive on the issues.

  • Dorab.

    What Zan and Shaimak Madon have said about the foot in mouth syndrome being suffered by a section of the press is true. What do you expect when a bunch of bigots consider it a victory in subjugating and muzzling freedom of speech by reducing a community weekly news paper to one expressing puritinical homilies as if all the pressing problems of the community have been resolved/disappeared overnight.
    The fortnightly outpourings of holier than thou individuals thru advertorials only end up in making the community a butt of crude jokes among other religious groups. The joke that is going round in rational and educated circles within our community is that one may discontinue subscribing to Jame/Mumbai Samachar/ Parsiana but can NOT unsubscribe to fortnightly trash in FPJ. WHY one may ask. The answer lies in the fact that this trash paper is thrown in the doors of flats of various Baugs and residences of Parsees even when they DO NOT WANT it and send it instanly to garbage can.
    The patron saint funding this organisation, if it can be called one, is an individual who was eased out of Parsee Punchayat of his own City and thinks that he can endear himself with Mumbai Parsees by wining/dining and perveted propaganda. Small teenagers circulating a petition for signatures has shaken and stirred these holier than thou. How can teenage girls copy their own tactics.

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    Congrats Edvadji, you seem to have not just mastered the art of delivering long blogs but also convinently seamlessly side lining the wrong doing of your favourites. Dastoorji it is this very approach which has brought us to this point where the history will be written and mind you not a good one as Division will be done forever. My intention were never to write negatives about someone but what i wrote was only truth. If you say that Navsari’s vada dustoorji is still correct inspite performing the navjotes of his own grand children
    (inter faith marriages) then dastoorji Madan has to be correct and for sure cannot be banned.But if you think he has to be banned then please understand the same justice to be delivered to the vada dustoorji. Can you also enlighten us with your knowledge on how did the Vasda gaam episode come into existance. A sincer request please limit your thoughts to the point rather then giving long scripts.

    KHSHNAOTHRE AHURAHE MAZDAO

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    Also a small story for the people issueing fatwas…..

    A man was sitting by a lake. He was throwing small pebbles into it from time to time. A young boy happened to cross by. He was intrigued to see that after every few minutes or so, the man would toss a pebble into the lake. The boy went up to the man and said, “Good pastime, this stone throwing, huh?” “Hmmm,” said the man. He seemed to be deep in thought and obviously did not wish to be disturbed.

    Sometime later, the man said softly, “Look at the water, it is absolutely still.”
    The boy said, “Yeah, it is.” The man tossed a pebble into the water and continued, “Only till I toss a pebble into it. Now do you see the ripples?” “Yeah,” said the boy, “they spread further and further.”

    “And soon, the water is still again,” offered the man.
    The boy said, “Sure, it becomes quiet, after a while.”
    The man continued, “What if we want to stop the ripples? The root cause of the ripples is the stone. Let’s take the stone out. Go ahead and look for it.” The boy put his hand into the water and tried to take the stone out. But he only succeeded in making more ripples. He was able to take the stone out, but the number of ripples that were made in the process were a lot more than before.

    The wise man then said, “It is not possible to stop the movement of the water once a pebble has been thrown into it. But if we can stop ourselves from throwing the pebble in the first place, the ripples can be avoided altogether!”

    “So too, it is with our minds. If a thought enters into it, it creates ripples. The only way to save the mind from getting disturbed is to block and ban the entry of every superfluous thought that could be a potential cause for disturbance. If a disturbance has entered into the mind, it will take its own time to die down. Too many conflicting thoughts just cause more and more disturbances.

    Even trying to forcibly remove the thought may further increase the turmoil in the mind. Time surely is a great healer, but prevention is always better than cure.”

    FOR NOW IT IS TOO LATE AS THE ARROW IS ALREADY RELEASED OUT OF THE BOW.

    KHSHNAOTHRE AHURAHE MAZDAO

  • R.Kayani.

    It appears that Machiavelli Trustee who talks of having arcane Religious knowledge is perturbed on knowing that an online signature campaign has been started requesting BPP to reconsider ban on the two priests. Such online public referendum though numerically limited will reflect the mood and desires of the members of the community which may turn out to be unpalatable to this Machiavelli and his henchmen.
    P.S. This is my own view and not of my grandfather who has his own set of conformist beliefs expressed earlier on this page on the 15th instant.

  • Adarbahman

    I too was most amused to read the contents of recent FPJ’s ‘you scratch my back and I scratch yours’ page. One has to think with a calm mind why an online Signature campaign by two young women should cause consternation to the self styled Scholars who change their views like Weather Cocks. Why those who ceaselessly talk of MAJORITY IS WITH US get rattled by such an innocuous effort of two youngsters who are perhaps not members of ZYNG.

    The thing that is FREE in FPJ’s fortnightly is not the contents but the fact that it is distributed, rather thrust FREE OF COST in most Parsee homes. In Fire Temples where it is distributed, the vernacular educated priests only see the ‘Garlanding of one by another’.

    History teaches us that Fascist opposed to freedom of expression and suppressed dissemination of facts. Independent publications and fearless Editors are the biggest threats to such fascist minds whose sole aim is to make everybody toe their line of thinking. That is the first step towards regimentation. Such fascist elements in our faith endlessly talk of their victory with 5,000 votes as if they represent the entire Community worldwide. Such oligarchs boast of getting an inconvenient Editor of a news paper kicked out considering that as an ‘achievement’. They expect to dictate the Editorial policy of news papers and periodicals to make them mouthpieces of their self created dogmas to be palmed off as Religious Tenets. Dictators and Oligarchs want a pliable Press ,servile Editors and non thinking, preferably less educated masses.

    Different line of thinking as opposed to that of such Oligarchs nay despots results in the latter going hammer and tongs against free thinking Editors. One can abuse power of money to get an Editor sacked. One can indulge in dadagiri against print media and blackmail such a medium with threats of having ‘disturbed public peace and causing communal disharmony’ etc etc.

    But their helplessness gets exposed when they CAN DO NOTHING in the cyber world when a mini Referendum has been initiated. And such helplessness is multi fold when such online signature campaigns are initiated by those who do not reside in India because such oligarchs cannot carry their goons, Munnabhai ‘Professor’ cum disgraced Bank employees abroad to indulge in blackmail and hooliganism. Yes Sir, FRUSTRATION OF SUCH DESPOTS IS PALPABLE. Rather the contents of current FPJ’s paid Advertisement is manifestation of utter helplessness and frustration of despots and oligarchs with disturbed minds.

  • Shaimak Madon

    Zarathushtra Zarthosti ,
    No use wasting time discussing issues who expects others to do clean up operations of disorder created by his own clan. By ignoring contents of my post (though addressed to Meher) Bhadha is shown that he is no different than those whom he condemns.
    Z.Z.The problem with persons like us is that we do not possess means to provide decent housing those priests who are simiilarly inclined like Mirza and Madon. Once the fear of eviction from their residences is done away with, you will be amazed to watch the exodus. Likewise provide a place of worship for those who want performance of ceremonies/ rituals and see the ‘strength and majority’ of self labelled traditionalists and orthodox. Till such time the ratrional and sensible persons make such alternative arrangements it is no use engaging in discussions with likes of Er. Bhadha.They are all same wine in different shaped bottles.
    Much was expected from ARZ but to dismay of many rationalists they have not been able to mobilise resources in the above direction. Thats the plain truth you have to accept.

  • Rémi

    Hi,

    Ervad KND has most probably grandchildren (he’s 82, according to Parsi Avaz website). Does anyone know if these children born of inter-faith marriages were introduced into the zoroastrian fold?

  • Boman Patel

    What Shaimak Madon has said in his post dated 25th is on the same lines what I have written in my post of 11th July. 2010 What is the use of spending time and energy on litigating. Court cases are time consuming and probably another generation will have to wait for outcome of Court case. Dorab has rightly said, an online petition by two young ladies has stirred up the ‘fituris’ much more than the Court Case that they had to use half a page of their mouthpiece FPJ.
    On the other hand,wealthy persons running a paper Association in the name INTER MARRIED and W.Z.O. (U.K.) ought to garner funds to have separate Bungalees and quarters for many priests who are too scared to speak out because they reside in BPP owned buildings as licensees. And we all know how vindictive these Dhobhi Talaowallas are. What is the contribution of Association of Inter Married Zoroastrian females in financial terms for Mobeds? I agree with Shaimak, ARZ has skewed priorities and thus a letdown . Moreover its activities are Pune centric.
    Court cases can be considered for other causes like Properties left by Parsee Sethias for the benefit of the community which are not cared for by BPP like Parsee Lying In Hospital.
    Court cases for religious issues will give a handle to these non performing Trustees to give a excuse in 2014 at a dinner party in DPC that they were tied up in ‘thousands’ of Court cases and therefore could not work for Welfare of the Community. Do we want to re -elect these flip flop individuals, with such a false excuse of Court cases for their
    non performance? Think. Court cases give a readymade excuse to such non performers.
    Lastly, I strongly suspect that vested interest is creating diversions by raising irrelevant issues and controversies to avoid tackling core problems like Housing, Senior Citizen Care and Higher Education.

  • piloo_2

    Has Er. Bhadha discontinued viewing posts on Parsi Khabar, since he has chosen to evade replying questions posed by ZZ and Shaimak?. Otherwise earlier he was found to be very prompt in posting lenghthy replies. It is simple to pontify and expect others to improve things.
    Earlier too three ‘regulars’ from ‘fekudas’ group indulged in a lot of propaganda of their cock & bull beliefs and even attempted to silence me and others who spoke after applying their minds but these individuals have just disaapeared after their ‘deep’ knowledge got exposed and they could not rebut logical posers.

  • k.tamboli

    Dear Ervad Hoshang J. Bhadha, first of all I would like to ask you how on earth were you able to type such a huge fact sheet, I mean the list was quite more then the answers to everything!

    I have a suggestion here which I think with time you yourself sir have understood for sure, its seems you are replying to the wrong people, I mean you do not expect a son of a Zoroastrian mother & a catholic or a musu father to accept your arguments when they are dumped owed to their sins!! Did you expect sir?

    Even if you are correct & bother to answer them then here is their slumpish strategy described, they will dump you with fake loads of questions which would be too tedious to answer all of them, & sir with all the respect considering you age I surly understand how hard is the same for you, the fact remains that there is no argument to any rules which we have been fairly practicing since years & will for the years to come, when we came in India our population was far more less then the current 69,000, now therefore we are in a much much much better situation comparatively.

    I personally do also believe that sir people like you do not need to answer or comment in the concerned format & yet if you wish to share your knowledge you can always occupy the higher place by publishing your articles over various sites(including parsikhabar hope so), later on from that respectable and valid questions can surly be answered by you. I already have seen many of you other articles.

    Hope to hear from you soon,
    God Bless All..
    K.T.

  • Shaimak Madon

    Some ‘wel wisher’ of Dastur. Bhadha is trying to give a graceful exit route to Dastur. Bhadha. who is unable to reply uncomfortable questions. When this wel wisher talks of ‘a son of a Zoroastrian mother & a catholic or a musu father’ this wise oops pure Parsee forgets that he is insulting the progeny of the current High Priest of Navsari. What a tragedy that those who claim to ‘high breeds’ do not possess an iota of far sightedness.If some one wants to be a laughing stock not even Ahura Mazda can prevent such ‘purer’ elements?

  • Saroshcious

    It looks like some people are busy exposed by their own guilt & language, its seems the word “Musli” provides them with some exposive guilt.
    Certain people forget oh sorry they don’t know our rules, that its the higher lineage that matters, so I guess the dastur from Navsari come clean here.
    I wonder what is so eminent about these duplicate parsis who really don’t care about their own religion, I was shocked to read recently that Ms.Anu Aga had clearly stated that she does not care a dam to wear sadra kusti, wondrous limitations of shamelessness….

  • Rémi

    Piloo_2: It took Er Bhadha one week between his posts dated 15th and 22th of July. So give him a little time!

    And about ZZ post “ask advice of Ervad Kaikhusroo N. Dastur whose both sons themselves are inter-faith married whose children are inniciated into the religion by him himself.”
    Who was introduced into the religion by KND : KND’s children or his grandchildren?

  • Boman Patel

    I totally agree with you Shaimak. But you have not noticed one thing here.As you would be knowing the time period of Ushan Gah is to be used for prayers by Athornans but some like our extra smart friend AGP during this time assume that they can take other readers for a ride by posting message under another name associated with a Wadi in Navsari – the Vatican of Zoroastrians. Such a superior(?) individual has the notion of assuming that others have the identical standard of intellect as he has. Ironically, that is the ‘piety’ level of those who assume themselves to be born in families with strong ‘traditional religious values.’ and are ‘saviours’ of the Religion. ROFLMAO.
    “Kah Royal Raja Bhoj our Dinshaw Tamboli and Kah this Ganga Teli misusing an identical surname.”

  • Adarbahman

    Dastoorji, at the end of every Niyayesh and Yasht, the prayer prayed is, “Daad din beh Mazdayasnan agahi, ravahi, goafrangani bad, haft keshvar zamin aedun baad” ie. ‘may Mazdayasni religion thrive and spread to seven continents.’ Does this not advocate conversion? Are we not mandated to convert others from all the seven regions or continents to the Mazdayasni Religion? I wonder if Parsis Zoros in subcontinent are plainly ignorant of the religion they represent or is it the insecurity of loosing out on staying in Charity flats and MIS USING trust wealth that steers the current policy of making excuses for not converting?
    Well, why be dishonest and spread misinformation blaming the it on Divine intervention and tradition and going into maze of delusions to cheat ourselves. Lets face it honestly. No use bringing in fairy tale Jadi Rana in picture either.
    History of Persia under Sassanians shows that Zoroastrianism was FORCED on nonZoroastrians in Persia. And those who didn’t comply faced religious persecution. Sassanians were Priest themselves and they were patrons of Mobed class… How come at that time there was not a single mobed or an ervad worth his salt who opposed the administration’s action of forced conversion if it was so wrongful???

    Besides Dastoorji, some messenger named agp aliasBumblebee is out to rescue you from uncomfortable questions and believes that he can purchase silence of ‘thinking sections’ of Bawas by saying that all those who raise unanswerable questions based on Religious Texts are children of mix parentage. Perhaps this agp oops Bumblebee believes that he has the authority to issue some certificate to others that they are born of both Parsee parents provided he/she agrees with whatever beliefs he was wrongly taught to be right. Well most of us, rational Zoroastrians, do not need this certificate from this Mr. Bumblebee Nobody.
    Any way thanks a lot Dasturji for admitting the fact of children of ‘high’ priests who are inter married and rightly questioning the Scholarship of Oxford accented ‘Scholar’.

  • Urvax.Motafram

    Well said K Tamboli. Congrats.

  • Rémi

    Adarbahman : the khshnoomist reply to your query is the answer to the second question of this : http://tenets.parsizoroastrianism.com/mythconv33.html

    But the logic behind this answer is not fully satisfactory (to my humble opinion). I’ll give you clarification a little bit later.

  • Dorab.

    In his pedantic posts on ‘Affidavit opposes Parsi women’s plea’, our great boarder agp called another boarder by name Boman as having ‘cowardly ideas with your own dhogi family only.’
    This agp had the audacity to say that he was using an abbreviated name since Bapu was synonymous with Gandhi.
    Well Mr. agp since you seem to be having BOLD ideas and do NOT belong to DHONGI family, as you claim then how is it that some boarders here have caught you, using another ‘pen’name of
    K Tamboli. And why have you not contested this if you are indeed bold and upright.
    It is bogus ‘Orthodox’ like you, who have caused downfall of genuine orthodoxy. In future do not try to undermine the calibre of others who have a clear conscience unlike you. And this message is meant for persons of other persons having similar ‘holy intentions’ like you.
    My congrats to Boman and Adarbahman for an excellent expose of a classical double faced dhongi, who perhaps is confused as to what is his real birth name.

  • piloo_2

    In the recent past this K Tamboli had used highly derogatory and foul language against me for doubting the fable of
    Jadi Rana and this offensive post was subsequently removed from the board. After the expose by Boman andAdfarbahman one can assess the ‘quality of such a ‘religious’ minded person and the ‘value’ of his ‘prayer’ to the Almighty to BLESS ALL. I am sure the Lord Almighty does distinguish berween those who offer a short and a sincere prayer and those who invoke/mutter lip blessings as if the Ahura Mazda heeds to requests of such dubious devotion.

  • k.tamboli

    @dorab, This is in concern to you query wrongly addressed to me, In which I think you have a certain question.

    Actually I would like to thank you personally as till you mentioned my (ID) Pen Name I was totally unaware of the boring statements were really written in context to what it came out. I have replied only and only because I presume you have personally asked me to, dorub the matter of the fact is that the matter in concern is too small to be discussed, and who really cares, all I say them is don’t bore me with such things, to be babyish of Mindsets is something not of my eminence. So who cares what they think, may be only they can understand their alienic versions & weird language.
    But here is the gigglish part that actually I was quite happy to see, It was one just one SIMPLE post, just one post from me, that scared the living souls out of them, I really didn’t think my partial return would cause them such grieve, though it was unintentional it always feel nice to have 10 20 people opposing you, in the end they make you more confident and are doing what you want!
    Rest I would not feel shy to speak out my mind as always I do, though irregular due to personal reasons but surly will try the same, hope have induced no sulking, in case so then I cannot do much about it.
    My innocent points of views always were and always will be firm, and certain people know that even better then me myself.
    Thank you for your patience.

    God Bless All…
    K.T.

  • Dorab.

    My reply to u Mr AGP alias K Tamboli that writing posts stealthily under different names is not a sign of eminence which u falsely assume and claim to be possess.It is a an malafide endeavour to deceive other boarders by writing for the same cause in different names. Probably you may have watched the movie “Catch me if you can” Do you consider the main character a fraudster,a personof eminence?
    I can not speak for other persons who have lambasted you after exposing your duplicity WHICH YOU HAVE NOT DENIED but I do not think that contents of your your ’eminent posts’ are capable of ‘scaring the living souls out of them’. As for me I pity a person who resorts to such cheap giimmics.

  • Shaimak Madon

    Dorab, Have you noticed how Er. Bhadha has been spared of answering some relevant questions and here you are wasting your time arguing with a person with split personality disorder. LOL.

  • Shireen Palia

    The surprise element here is this, if Khushroo Madon and Faramroz Mirza are so willing to do their part of theater in which they don’t even forgive our holy Atash behrams then they should probably drown their noses in a glass full of water, one should realize if Mr. Jamshed Kanga was indeed so truthful then why on earth did he have to take help of who’s who.

    That move by its materialization proves to be a sign of being unconfident, and a person would only be unconfident if he does not believe in what he does.
    In fact it was heard quite a long time back about the facts that there was some duplicate Agyari being constructed for uses of duplicate parsis, wonder if it had any facts in it then by now would it not have been ready, such slur lies has been easily exposed by time itself, and will time to time, one should not be afraid to think that this shameful move by Mr.Jamshid Kanga is on its way in the line to be exposed.

    There has been huge wave, a constant flutter of fearful emotions in the minds of the one who calls themselves as Liberals, it seems their party time is over, and they are now slowly coming towards the grave reality which they did dared to challenge. Today they talk about issues more then the Traditionalist do, did anyone wonder why? Its obvious, they are political scavengers, for them it does not matter even if our community is destroyed but their selfish ambitions should not be. No wonders then why in entertainment 2008 were they kicked off. One more scientific example of this would be that a bulb always shines much bright beyond its capacity just ahead of its death, and so is the case here too, its now not much matter of time left for them to rejoice. In the end one has to pay for what they have done, same shall be their fate.

    One should not try and change the community for their personal comfort, if they wish to follow certain different practices then they can, but not by disturbing others in the way they do, they can construct their own temples and burn themselves as they wish, but then should not expect anything form the traditionals thereafter, as what they do is what they get in the end, they should honestly bear the consequence thereafter and not complain later on in return. Although mostly their love for the religion awakens at later stages after their consequential wrong actions, which are always self-centric by default. In the end it should be made quite clear that one cannot change the tradition for a self-centrically motivated reason..

    Mr/MS Tamboli…. It was bit ironic to see you not following your own taste of advise, you had just mentioned to Mr.bhadha not to reply to just about anyone. Then what sets you up to counter their NoN-evidential charges? And for your own mention let me bring it clear to you, that Mr.Bhadha had Already stopped replying post much BEFORE You asked him to so. Hope you notice it.

  • aspimehta

    Intentionally blind is the biggest fool on earth, and what we see here is a solid example of that, Anu Aga and team looks to be doing that here. They all are blindly following the wrong persons here, not to forget their friend kanga being the head master in the team cannot be missed out. The two priest as they claim to be, have negligible knowledge about our religion, in reasoning if they had some then they wouldn’t be rejected in such a disgraceful manner. They actually claim to charge nothing for whatever ceremony they perform, actually they can charge nothing, because they are not capable of performing any real ceremony perfectly, no real Parsi would even bother to pay them. But In the end what they claim is all a big lie, one should not forget that how would one survive if one charges nothing? Its simple, thanks to the under the table format. They say that lie for the sake of promotions and prints media certainly.

    It clearly seems that their personal avarice has finally taken over their belief and a person of character would surly not conciliate with such hypocrites. Their Baleful acts which they enunciate wrongly in name of unity surly brings them to no conclusive stance but exposes their own discordant personalities. Their Inimical stance is biased onto the fact that possibly they would have a market for their share which would be reserved for them only, to be specific enough “The Bhel Puri Parsis”. Though they don’t realize that is really going to help them no where near to erase their indigence, because majority of parsis are not the kind of what they cater to, and the minority which they claim to entertain would not be able to really fill up their pockets. Balderdash acts that they have sinfully commited would really make them answerable on the final day when they meet the ultimate, questioning them for sure that what did their so called urbane thinking really meant. I wish all the best to the BPP and those who take up the cause against these greedy hypocrites in order to do the right..

  • Dorab.

    Mrs. Palia.
    You have said that Mirza and Madon ‘don’t even forgive our holy Atash behrams then they should probably drown their noses in a glass full of water” This sentence is read but not comprehended. Will you please elaborate? It seems that you are unaware that one High Priest performed Navjote of a non Parsee married men in his 70’s along with that of his son and another high Priests authorized Uthamna of a non Parsee industrialist. Where do these HIGH priest ought to drown their noses instead of a glass, considering that the glass would not befit their high Status.
    One has to wait for a decade or so to realise the need to change your opinion once one’s own children grow up and I wish not, but get life partner from another community.
    Yes I agree, there are different formats for receiving Ashodad. as Mr. Aspi Mehta ex AGP alias K Tamboli says. Some times it is in form of flats in colonies. That depends on the means and ability of the converted.

  • Byram Sidhwa

    Dorab, I think Shaimak is right. Here we have a couple of shameless hypocrites who use different names with different posts to portray a feeling of multiple voices e.g.K Tamboli,-his Eminence who earlier posted as agp and as you have obseved keenly,now is posting as Aspi Mehta. Does this person think we were born yestersday?. Same is true of another messenger calling himself Mazda/ chottabhai.They have belief that they can hoodwink others and consider their opponents as morons. They seem to be unaware that more they write, more material is available to us to analyse the style of writing and vocabulary. They do not spare even the Muktad days for performing their ‘holy’ deeds. Thats their level of piety. When one is in charge of providing internet facility in his own colony, he can ‘use’ it in this ‘fruitful’ manner.
    Ask them to come for a public debate and they will keep goons ready to hoot and jeer their rivals so as to avoid giving answers to questions they are totally incapable of replying.
    Cheers.

  • farzana

    Dorab, that was a good one:)

  • farhad

    With the passage of time and the increase in modern teaching and various developments we humans feel more and more commanding, forgetting our very own basic sets of existence. No matter say 500 years before or say 1000 years before, what did we use to pray then? Isn’t it the same what we at large do pray today too, we should not forget that our religion is not some sort of human made technology that can be changed and upgraded according to our personal needs, it’s the opposite that we have to change and adjust according to our religion. Had our religious tenants grown on trees then it would not have been a problem to follow some low graded recommendations. But as we all know that’s really not the case, today all the greats in the community are themselves preying for the community, its odd to say that but factual, our values is what makes us when we grow old, its because of these values that these great people become great in the first place, but then its gruesome to know the fact that these great people at some later stage not only forget all these values but in turn they also try to stain them all, what language of justice is that exactly. The reason behind all these hiccups are certain self gifting issues, these issues are mainly a gift of time, a time in which certain responsible greats forget the values of the community teachings, and then at the end we reach at this stage. A stage at which it all can be well compared to blood cancer, your own blood here then tries to defy you, but then don’t we all know the result of Blood Cancer, Its eventually Death. The blood that defies dies as well as the body dies, both perish, if something that does not perish is the soul, and in this case our religion is our soul, our body and blood is our community, and certain portion of the blood though may be cancerous, the spirituality of our souls can surly save it standing as medicines, thus not only proving that the soul(religion) cannot die, but also that its spiritual powers can also save the body(community) from Impure(Cancerous) blood. Remember cancer stopped earlier is better then its later stage always, the same way we need to stop this religious cancer at the earliest. May offenders realize their mistakes and help the parsis to archive their greater cause.

  • aspimehta

    Please do clarify and give an account of where has there been any mention of any house colonies in my observation, Please do use your bogus eloquent diatribes in such a way that you do not need to put your words into someone’s else mouth. It can be evidently be observed that certain humdins have sent shivers down your spine, in reaction to which you are giving your exposed despot views which can be clearly observed, although they echo distressed but even in failure one does think what she/he is trying to say. Not to forget to mention that everyone is not the same, please don’t consider everyone to be of your innate category, which I by describing would not like to humiliate you any further.

  • Dorab.

    Aspi Mehta/agp/K.Tamboli, all one person.
    ________________________________________
    Reference to flats in colony in my earlier post are with regard to flats given to one particular High Priest as Ashodad who converted a non Parsee. It was a reward given to the said High Dastur given by a non Parsee.
    I am sorry that the format of Parsi Khabar does not provide for bogging in Gujarati to enable persons like you to follow/understand. You are free to suggest to the Moderator to start Gujarati format.
    As for your ultimatum to humiliate me further, you are at utmost liberty to do so and I will relish it and for that type of your fluid and flowery vocabulary against another boarder your posts were earlier removed. You are ‘distinguished’ in that respect.
    If persons like me are ‘shivering’ and distressed,your group ought to be rejoicing, instead your posts demonstrate hyper anxiety.

  • Byram Sidhwa

    Dorab,As I predicted in my post of the 13th inst, this chap who changes his name more than his shirt is now trying to pretend innocent about not following your remark about Ashodads to Priests while replying Ms.Palia’s post. This his way of digressing from issues unless Aspi Mahta, erstwhile Tamboli/agp is a priests by profession and is hurt by your remark about Ashodad. Don’t you think it is time to ignore such a individual changing his name to deceive others?

  • Farook

    Type your comment here…

    External source:
    When it comes to identity, here is what conservatives take as fact. Zarathustra was not the founder of our religion, nor did he invent, or think up the basic prayers, ceremonies, or the Sudreh-Kusti we use today. Zarathustra was born into the Mazdayasni faith. Mazdayasni loosely means Mazda worshipper. His Navjote was performed and he was an ordained priest. The Mazdayasni faith, like modern day Zoroastrianism fell into a state of disrepair, with many of its populace doing things in the name of religion that they should have not been doing, for example idol worship. When the Mazdayasni religion degenerated to such a state which was no longer tolerable, Ahura Mazda sent Zarathustra to us to right all of those wrongs. This clearly showcases that there is right and wrong when it comes to religion and there are rules to be followed. The people who lived in Zarathustra’s geographic region, though led astray, were already of the Mazdayasni faith. There was no one to ‘convert’ but rather set them upon the right path once again. When you read in texts that ‘Zarathustra converted Vistaspa’ etc. it was more of a conversion of mindset than religion. Zarathustra was pivotal in restoring the faith to its previous glory by showing people what was right and what was wrong when it comes to religious practice.

  • Shaimak Madon

    Dear Farook,
    Can you be more clear. You say that ‘ When you read in texts that ‘Zarathustra converted Vistaspa’ etc. it was more of a conversion of mindset than religion’ So which side ought to change their mindset. Those who want to live according to earlier Centuries or those who are practical and believe in what they perceive.The fake “orthodox” have taken upon themseves the responsibility to impose their tyrranical and despotic ideas on the strength of getting elected to a local Punchayet meant for administering funds and properties that too by slender margin of about 5,000 votes. When these fake orthodox are confronted with the idea of a Referendum they get a nervous breakdown and indulge in posting messages under different imaginary names to portray ‘majority’.
    So dear Farrok, it is these class fake Orthodox’ who preach one thing and themseves act differently, who need to get a ‘conversion of mindset’ as propounded by you.

  • Aspi

    Dorab urf….

    It seems your eminently despicable ideas, which you seem to follow by faking yourself as other boarder concerned, is clearly exposed when you yourself try to hide the same by pretending that someone else is defending you, just in order to escape. Now I understand why are you regularly claiming that everyone else is bogus. Good attempt but assured failure.

    As far as the statement goes I repeat that you have clearly mentioned the word “says”, please refer to dictionary to know what it means. Please give further clarifications, which will help me to exploit yours such low-priced fabrications further.
    As mentioned by you about my past observations, I really don’t find anything that has been deleted or removed, please check for yourself. Although proving you regularly wrong is now a certain discomfort for me, its always quite petite to be able discern your perjuries. And yes by the way I would be swollen with pride if you could publicize all of my observations as they all are roundabout always supporting the traditional views. Hopefully just in case if your luck improves your approach of thinking then please do induce the same in your schoolboy, he too should not have a dreadful approach as per his intrinsic thinking.
    Your frictionally based impetuous language gives me one negative indication that certain liberal dogmatists are not even worth disagreeing with, but be assured as per your standards I will surly give you numerous opportunities to recover..

  • Dorab.

    Aspi Mehta/agp.K Tamboli.;
    What is ‘despicable’ about my ideas?.
    What is ‘dreadful’ in my approach?
    Are you trying to impress others by asking somebody else to pen your post filled with meaningless and irrelevant adjectives. Is this your concept of ‘high/fluent English’ ?
    I doubt very much if you yourself follow the meanings of words used in your current post and their relevancy.
    By deleting the words “God Bless’ you can not change your identity in previous avtars.
    I do not need assistance of anybody to DEFEND me. I am quite capable myself and there is nothing to defend against a a person who goes on changing his name in different posts thinking himslef to be clever.
    In fact you ought to make efforts to find out why and how your Original identity gets revealed to so many depite your changing your name continuously.
    I assume that you will at least desist from entering into a debate with those whom you call as liberal dogmatists, who , according to you are ‘not worth disagrreing with’.since it is beyond your calibre.
    That will spare me and others from embarassing you further in future.Do not expect to silence me with your ultimatums and rest assured that in future too,if you emerge once again in the same name or in any other name and if such posts contain your obnoxious ideas, there will be me if not others to tear such obnoxious ideas into shreds. I do not give up to bullies and of any type.

  • Byram Sidhwa

    Dorab,
    Did I not tell you earlier, this person is unable to fathom what you have stated earlier.It all Latin & Greek to him. Moreover, he has the tendency to divert from the main topic. Now, I too feel that we ought NOT to ignore him but continuously expose him whensoever he cunningly tries to resurface.
    I am surprised how he can be so naive not to recollect that a senior high priests performed Navjote ceremony of an elderly non Zoroastrian industrialist and his son late in their lives.In return for this ‘exception’ this Senior Zoroastrian Priest was favoured with:
    -2 flats in premier Parsee Colonies,(which you have referred
    to and every Parsee Zoroastrian is aware of;
    -Permanent monthly dole,
    -Even a knee joint operation performed by a Doctor of
    international repute,
    -Facility of frequent foreign travel.
    Now that this has been made clear probably this blogger will be able to follow.

  • Aspi

    Dorab Urf etc etc

    It seems by your reaction as if someone just caught you with your pants Down!! Though I had no intention to expose you in such a rude method, but you forced me to do so again. Further making it clear to all that what kind of fake Graded Character you are, It appears I have withered all you intentions that have nothing much but duplicate standards, to which your tattered frustration is a receipt.
    Further your defensive approach on the view expressed by another boarder (Yourself) is clearly exposed when you defend more and more and more of that. Please keep it up, it helps me establish that you are a Guru of your newly found religion known as fakeism!
    You have indirectly mentioned your fear which you have expressed unintentionally, mainly begging me not to respond to you any further based on my words, now that was astonishing….. One wonders why certain people claim something else and do something else, but doing the opposite is not what I really thought you would do, hats off, you at least proved your caliber for ending up being the best of the laughing stock available here. Daily entertainment for 5 mins is always a good dose.
    YOU HAVE STILL NOT BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER ANY OF MY QUESTIONS, I BEG YOU TO PROVE ME WRONG, IN OTHER WORDS I DARE YOU…..
    Come on, show your school boy how to illustrate, although your certain bogus ones would have already made him a crooked mind.

    Hohoho shame shame shame, one more fake post on 17 August, that too trying to defend its clone maker again… Dorab good illustrations dear..

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    Wishing everyone Navroze Mubarak May this year get Happiness in everyones lives and May people finally start correctting the wrong that is been done for decades.

    KHSHNAOTHRE AHURAHE MAZDAO

  • farzana

    So Farook, are those ‘FACTS’ according to you too?

  • farzana

    Farad, all power to your brilliant idea… Why should be go back 500 years when we can go back 3500 years to the time Zarathushtra lived in Bactria[Balk] in N.Afghanistan….Fortunately nothing much has changed there in 3500 years thanks to Talibans who think just like you.

  • farzana

    So Farook, are they ‘FACTS’ according to you too?

  • farzana

    Dorab, we all know who Aspi is…the best way to deal with him is give him enough rope .. and wait for him to hang himself by his tongue

  • Dorab.

    Tamboli alias Aspi alias AGP,
    If your aim is to have the last word then have the courage and calibre to reply the questions posed to you in my earlier posts. Your incapacity to do so and using endless adjectives only exposes you futher to the established fact that you have been sending posts under different aliases and identities.
    Some one else who supports my stand or renders unsolicited advice which I do not need, according to you is me posting under a different name, then you are free to live in your own fantasy world judging others by your own Karma and conscience if any.
    I am not a school teacher to show things to a school boy as suggested by you. In your earlier posts as Tamboli, you have been judgmental about others (who do not agree with you)in your language and the same approach is evident in your posts as agp and in your current ‘name’.
    As to who is frustrated, is visible by the language of your ‘flowery’ odorus post. I am neither accountable to you nor need charcter certificates from a person who has been found posting under different names.The more you post, the more material I get to confirm the fact of your multiple identities.From your assuming different identities, one can infer that you are ashame to come back in your earllier names because of your inability to reply to posts questioning you about the ‘lathi’ of Ahuramazda eh?

  • Voice of Reason

    The answer to the reason why some persons post messages under fictitious names is not hard to seek. A few months ago they were honest enough to ceaselessly post their feelings under their own pompous names and were proud at the fact that their names appeared on this portal. They thought that their views would be appreciated and acclaimed and their names would be on the lips of all Parsees. For some time this went on. But that was not to be for long and such messages were subjected to replies by those who did not believe in the herd mentality to accept whatever was written by these so called Orthodox and Traditionalists. The messages of these rationalists sought proofs from these so called Orthodox in the form of whys and hows of the so called Traditional beliefs. These liberal lot quoted examples of double standards and ‘exceptions’ made by the Clergy as quid pro quo for certain favours from the rich and the powerful. Unable as they were, to reply with evidence/proofs, these
    self proclaimed Orthodox who posted messages in their own names found themselves as butt of ridicule in their neighborhood,residing as they were in Parsee Colonies at Dadar, Parel & Bandra. Their neighbours and friends often caustically asked them ‘Kem pacchi pela deformist ne jawaab kai nahi aapyo ?” (Why have you not given a reply to the person you called a Deformist?) They ran short of Napkins to wipe the eggs on their faces.
    Ashamed and embarrassed, these loudmouths could take it no more but their zeal to propagate their version of Religion did not diminish and so they resorted to this gimmick of posting in fake names and changing their fake names every time their earlier fake name had to eat a crow. It is their sheer inability accept realities that makes them day dream that entire media will parrot their version of Religion.
    In English language there is a saying that when logic fails, abuses prevail. So such ‘pure’ elements, out of sheer helplessness seek comfort by calling all others who question their unfounded and stupid ideology as ‘bhel puri’ Parsees etc. That is the symbol of intellectual bankruptcy.
    Pray, Ahura Mazda spare us from these ‘savoiurs’.

  • Zerxes.Dordi

    It seems Voice of Reason is short of Reasons !
    Five decades back medical termination of pregnancy was unknown and so many women had to deliver the child however unwanted. Out of poverty or may be to erase social stigma, such children were given away to couples and since there is no adoption legally available to Parsee Zoroastrians,such couples became PALAKS. Now these off springs though over 50 in age could be excused for being unaware over who actually is the biological mother and for that genuine and bonafide reason could be using two names. During those times such subjects were never discussed by elders in presence of their kids.
    That exactly is the Lathi of Ahura Mazda making such persons take recorse to many identities.
    This is posted with MALICE TOWARDS NONE.

  • Adarbahman

    Voice of Reason, Are you implying and referring to internationally well known,pious (!) Ervard from Elphinstone road who drives around in a Pune Registered Car to avoid paying Octroi and the Bandra boy, laid off from a loss making subsidiary of Tata group and provided a flat by his ex employers, in their Charity building by way of Sevarance package on humanitarian considerations.?

  • Aspi

    Dorab URF ETC ETC,

    Certainly you seem to be SKIPPING the main issue here, may be because you ought to have some cold, although your standards already made me believe that you would not reply, and thus here I am proving my thought right, sorry for you, you couldn’t come back with and fall by your nose. As Usual the a-dharmi loses by tears!

    What is so hard to reply, common at least be respectable to your own challenges that you might want to fulfill, I find it certainly quite lame to brawl with a lame opponent, at least prove me wrong here. Certainly now I know your intention was nooo serious debate, which makes me laugh at your gimmick by which you want something, that’s the reason why you are hiding yourself under some fake names. I just have one additional question here, do you think I don’t know who this is? Don’t you see why I am interested to respond to you and no one else? Few post within I saw your real identity posting a few comments, chalo thodu to nak che.
    I have no business to answer about post by fellow boarders, so please do not expect me to answer you here as per your quires, its not my concern. In case of your fantasies please establish it. By the way it was hilarious to realize that person who illustrates so much cannot understand simple language, in case you require further help, please do feel ashamed. I pity your poor schoolboy, one more jolt to him, wonder if he too was sent to “shala number dus”. Although his collapsed character can be nothing different from yours.

    Regardless of your brainless argument, the universal fact remains, that the likes of you surly are considered void by the majority of our community, and you yourself know the fact quite much..

  • Dorab.

    I never knew all this while that I was engaged in a debate with a ‘genius’ who posted as Aspi Mehta till 13th August and thereafter dropped his ‘surname! in subsequent posts.
    Each Log In Id means you require a fresh E Mail Id. So what was the reason for a new Log In Id? Because your surname is NOT Mehta.
    I did enquire from a few persons by name Aspi Mehta, as I have List of Parsi Voters compiled during BPP Elections and they were even unaware of Parsi Khabar.
    Once again I have to inform you that I am not a School Teacher so no question of your pity on my School boys.
    Lastly I do not hide my identity and drop my suname. My name is Dorab Unwalla and if other persons share my views and that makes you envious as you do not get support that is because the ‘lathi’ of Ahura Mazda is at work.
    Since you claim that ‘ you are hiding yourself under some fake names’ do go on what you call laughing though the language of all your posts displays annoyance.

  • taheraa

    It is very disgraceful to see few religious scholars indulging in Character Assassination of a fellow bloggers, I request the moderator to take a strict note of the abusive statements directed towards dorab and ban the abuser.

  • Shaimak Madon

    Well said Voice of Reason, your comment ‘when logic fails abuses prevail’ is established beyond doubt by one commentator – a ‘pure’ UNREFINED Parsee. Very very appropriate comment from you.
    No Taheraa, he should not be banned. Rather he should be encouraged to show his class of specimen “Traditionalism”.

  • Aspi

    Dorab URF ETC ETC,

    Your shaggy dog story is too uninformed to amaze me, you and your bogus claims till date have remained stuck in a half dug grave as usual, proof to which is no response to my questions. No wonders why people like you don’t think twice before opening their mouths on religious stance, you know for wise thoughts you require certain god-gifted assets, of course you too have certain assets, but they are not wise, what does one expect from worshippers of ahriman, who illustrates her ill for the religion in her words. So its ahriman who taught you about fakism, at least spare your schoolboy from fakism, who knows ahriman might make him his gulam. One needs to think twice, expecting something genuine from people like you who possibly think fire belongs to Satan. It really sometimes stinks to even talk to such people no matter under protest. Shame on you Ms.FAke…

    Its people like you who might have tried to cheat in elections, that’s why may be you are having the list as you just mentioned, again exposing yourself with your own double standards, woo what a illustration. Though in the end something very important was proved, hope your memory is capable to remember it. Hopefully that Illustrated to you something worth learning from…

  • Dorab.

    I very much doubt if you yourself understand what you are saying in your various posts -talking incoherent ,MEANINGLESS nonsense which you think can pass off as Scholastic bunkum.As Shiamak has rightly pointed out Traditionalists like you represent nothing else but uncouth conduct. What else.?.
    You have also stated and I reproduce your own sentence ‘Regardless of your brainless argument, the universal fact remains, that the likes of you surly are considered void by the majority of our community, and you yourself know the fact quite much”.
    If my argument is indeed brainless and likes of me are considered void by the majority(what it means, nobody can follow) the main issue is what is the intellect level of a person like you who argues on a ‘brainless argument considered void by the majority?’ Hi Hi.
    And you can refer to the English Dictionary the meaning of the word “SURLY’ that you have used innumerable times.
    Possibly it is an attribute and virtue of Traditionalists to call another person “fake graded character’ /having a crooked mind” etc?
    Your post of 21st says, I am skipping the main issue. The main issue right from the beginning was your statement about payment made to Priests. What else?
    You say that you have no business to answer about post by fellow boarders.. Well why not pose yourself as Tamboli once again and answer.
    Your ultimate objective is to make me speak out how I caught the fact that you earlier posted messages as Tamboli and apg. I will not disclose this except to tell you that unless you had the same English School Teacher as Tamboli and apg, you would not be committing the same spelling mistakes and that too continuously. So now take your time, read all your earlier post penned as Tamboli and apg and find out three common spelling mistakes out of six otherwise as per your habit open another E Mail address and log into this blog posing as another character as you have been doing.
    AND I VERY MUCH EAGERLY ANTICIPATE YOUR FURTHER POSTS IN ANOTHER FICTITIOUS NAME.
    And I will relish exposing you once again.

  • Dorab.

    Your Words ” on religious stance, you know for wise thoughts you require certain god-gifted assets,…” Your Assets probably bequeathed to you are 1) Usage of selective foul language 2) Mistakenly assuming yourself to be ‘God gifted ‘ 3)Trying to propagate your misconceived concept of Religion in fictitious names. But on one thing I agree with you, the Lathi of Ahura Mazda invariably works and I have immense faith in it.
    And now you say, “Shame on Ms. Fake”. Now I really consider you ‘God gifted’ ( but negatively.)

  • Boman Patel

    Dear Taheraa,
    Vituperative outbursts and invectives are not signs of a Scholar (as you have wrongly called) but of a person with thwarted ambitions unable to convert others to his own concept of purity. Pity such a bigot who is suffering from a psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of power, and omnipotence. In brief an unsuccessful mental bully.
    And who is to blame for this if not the same lot who are now trying out legal remedies as they were too lazy to exercise their franchise in 2008.
    Had these individuals made efforts to stand in line to cast their votes, those muttering of Majority would have been the litigants now.

  • Dorab.

    @Boman, I fully agree with contents of your post to Taheraa. Further pl refer the topic of Affidavit Opposes Parsi Woman’s plea.on Parsi Khabar thru Archives.
    The great EminentTraditionalist who used filthy words against you in his posts has used the word SURLY (meaning not known to me) Might be Nargol Lower primary School English. For you specific viewing I draw your attention to his Eminence’s following posts:
    Post dated 26th May Line 3.
    Post dated 28th May Last Line
    Post dated 3rd June 5th Line.
    These are just illustrations. Other eminent blunders cannot be told now. You will have to wait.
    The Lathi of Ahura Mazda fell on practicing Traditionalist ??? And he himself confessed in line 5 of post of 28th May that he believed in boomerang philosophy. Now who says we need to watch Comedy Shows on T.V.
    T.C.

  • Aspi

    Dorab URF ETC ETC,

    So sad dorabjiiiii, it really comes to this, shamelessly you have been trying to escape certain indirect accusation. Yes Indeed your clones did try to point out something but that yet again was on discourse as usual.
    IT WAS A GOOD TRY, but the words in which you defend yourself saying that you did not understand anything makes my doubt and spirit much stronger, in fact it motivates me to make a example out of screwed clowns like you.
    Certainly your egg faced intentions of claiming to be innocent by the false reasoning that you can’t understand anything is now quite exposed too, and yes one does not expect much from an Illustrator of your level!! Adding an “i” instead of “e” in your “hihi” or “hehe” is not going to benefit you to make me think you are someone else Ms.FAke.
    The reason behind your frustration is my strait talking that cuts you down, as obviously you don’t seem to have a habit to bear the taste of sour soup.
    As per your fake accusations something out of the movies, I really don’t have time to bother about something which is unestablished, I think Ms.FAke, I really missed out when certain angels were giving you a shiver. I can understand, can still see the bright effect.
    Anyways Its not our habit to jump down so stumpy as You do, your illustration are definitely something beyond that, now just imagine, I just saw your two fake and BIASED post of 23rd August, che, SHAME SHAME.
    As per the situation that you are in, you really do require to hide your face, unfortunate you cannot update your picture here, I don’t know if one can, but if possible then why don’t you do so, only if it could be possible, but otherwise I know you would not or else you would be one gone case, not even ahriman would be able to save you then, in the end it does not matter so much, as partially you already stand Exposed. Ultimately we all know what stands tall in the end, in case you don’t know it’s the truth that our religion teaches that does. Hopefully you would have realized that by now, post 2008 you are welcome to relish the victory of the same truth that harshly exposed and threw out all the evil intentions that ahriman supporters like you dwelled in.
    People like you who are regressive and not progressive can be expected nothing worthy of, definitely their target becomes their own religion which itself has done no harm to them anyhow. Calling you fake has now become outdated, lets name you FARZE(duplicate ops! quaked!), Farze the dimak ka pradarshanwalla ops walli would suit you. (The busted Duck)
    Coming back to the main issue, please take the pain to refer to my previous posts and questions asked to you there, you have certainly tried to put in certain words into my mouth, that which I immediately repelled to you with. All the history is free for you to read, amazing will it be for me again when you would ask me on false pretext ”what?”.
    Though that has been your standard of quality throughout the contest, insulting priest, insulting our religion, insulting our culture and practices, what not! Although if you think you would get away with it, then let me give you the assurance that by no chance will charlatans like you will be able to get away anyhow. Anyways the majority of the parsis are quite more in the real world compared to farzes in the virtual world, therefore no wonders if thousands stop you before I need to even bother.

    I also strongly ask myself, that why people like you do oppose our basic culture, is it because of certain individual married outside not being able to take the advantage of our religion in any ways, mainly hypocrites like you only support them because someone from your family might be the one involved in such acts! Isn’t it shamelessly TRUE?
    Conclusion: People like you oppose our wonderful Dokhma system surly for their own selfish reasons, for their own personal greed’s, to save their family member from the punishment of isolation resulting out of their sins and disgraceful acts sourly dedicated against the religion and the community. THIS IS YOUR REALITY, whether you like it, or not..

    And yes Please mature your tongue, what will the foolish schoolboy learn from you then. Ops isn’t it!

  • CONTRA-DHONGI

    Dorab & Ors.
    That dear Sirs is the plight of those who lay claim to be God gifted –They have name of Ahura on lips but abundance of spite and false arrogance which will outclass Ahriman.
    A true Zoroastrian is one who practices Good thoughts/Words & Deeds in daily life and not one who walks from his house to a Fire Temple be it Rustom Fram, Narielwalla, Lal Baug Agiary or Friday visit to Aslaji.
    Great job . My compliments. Keep it up.
    P.S. Again the word SURLY in the first line of CONCLUSION oops Confusion. Can not help laughing uncontrollably at the absence of vision. Often one sees what he wants to see.
    ROFLAMAO.

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    Below is the link to the pages from our common book of prayers KHORDEH AVESTA (by Dasturji K. E. Kanga) in which is mentioned and we recite them on daily bases most of them saying that religion is for ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD and not the the sole proprietary of few.The original source to the complete book from which the link are refered from is http://www.avesta.org/kanga/ka_english_opf_files/slideshow.htm .

    On pg. 53 (Sent the trustworthy knowledge of the religion for the people of the world).
    On pg. 175 (For this world and the yonder world).
    On pg. 188 (Priests go to distance places to promote).
    On pg. 266 (O Zarathushtra prayer is good for the people of the world).
    On pg. 268 (Who so ever man or a woman pronounce).
    On pg. 273 (Afford protection on the seven religions of the Earth).
    On pg. 295 (Bringing prosperity to the world… &over this entire Earth).
    On pg. 297 (Those Arabs who accepted Zoroastrian religion & holy men of the seven religions of the Earth).
    On pg. 390 (In all the seven religion of the Earth).
    One of my favourite as not only we pray but ask our Dastoorji’s to do it for us is,
    On pg. 395 (May the religion of Zarathushtra be pleased (liked or chosen) amongst all men).
    On pg. 402 (Religion sent for the people of the world & for propagating in this world).
    On pg. 428 (Farvashis of the people of all countries and of the people of the friendly countries).
    On pg. 493 (Farvashis of righteous men and women of Saini (Chinese) and Dahi (North Eastern) countries).

    KHSHNAOTHRE AHURAHE MAZDAO

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    On pg. 297 (Arabs girding the sacred thread-wearing Kushti)

    KHSHNAOTHRE AHURAHE MAZDAO

  • Bakhtawar

    Aspi,
    Can you pl clarify what you mean by saying that in dakhma people interred suffer punishment from isolation. On one side, you seem to be in favour of the age, time tested old system but simultaneously you are making apparently unfavorable statements. Quite contradictory for a layman to understand.

  • farzana

    I second taheraa’s opinion

  • farzana

    HaaHaaa!! This is really funny!! ….Behram Dhabhar alais Asspee thinks Dorab is my pseudonym…
    Moderator plz help this inbred nut case come out of his illusions….

    Btw,Mr Dhabhar Unlike you, i’m not a hypocrite traditionalist and i dont need to hide behind pseudonyms …Get your head tested..chances are they find not find brain there.

    Anyway, I care a damn what you think…which anyway you do rarely…FO

  • falijimmy@hotmail.com

    My Sincere thanks to these five eminent parsis for supporting me.May God bless them.I also thank all the good lawyers and solicitors and all the well wishers,who all are fighting for me free of charge.
    I also thank over 2400 supporters who signed the petition in a short span of about 20 days in my support.
    Million thanks and looking for your support always in future also.
    Ervad Khushroo Madon.

  • Dorab.

    Moderator Sir.
    A humble plea.This Aspi Mehta fellow has EARLIER used the same terminology against one person, probably a lady by name Piloo. That time Aspi wrote as K Tamboli. Then again he statrted his tirade as Firoz Addas on the topic of Parsi Charity neding an Overhaul against another female. This time he confused me as another female.
    I AM SAYING THIS AS I HAVE STUDIED THE LANGUAGE AND STYLE BESIDES COMMON SPELLING MISTAKES IN HIS PAST POSTS AS AVAILABLE IN ARCHIVES.
    Therefore my request, pl place this Foroz Addas/ Tamboli/Aspi Mehta/Aspi in direct touch with the concerned females against whom he bears some grudge and spare the ramaining readers of his imitation of Sherlock Holmes serials.
    Thanks v v.much.
    Dadar Ahuramazda in Madad Hojoji.

  • farzana

    I would like to correct my above statement to –

    “Btw ERVAD BEHRAM Dhabhar Unlike you, i’m not a hypocrite traditionalist and i dont need to hide behind pseudonyms LIKE YOU …Get your head tested..chances are they may not find any brain there.”

  • farzana

    Zarathushtra Zarthosti , you are simply awesome.

    As per a Bukhari Hadith i across recently, Mohammad had imposed Jazia on Majus [Zoroastrian priests ] living in Arabia along with other people of the book ; and Umar was sent to collect it from them.
    What does this tell you??
    There were Arabs who were Zoroastrians… Now anyone with basic knowledge of ethnology would know arabs are Semite and not Aryans, …

  • Aspi

    Madon a Mirza, Please do leave our community alone, please convert into a muslim or anything you would like to, even you and your friends are free to dispose of your bodies by burning them whenever needed, but please do that out of our holy places and holy institutions, and also request you not spoil our culture with your vicious wishes, although your fake campaigns are quite in news, their capacity is nothing to be beyond that. In fact your sudden attack has brought us a lot of unity, albeit that’s rather that you would not want. We are true to our religion and not like you, for us our culture and religion is both combined, this is something that you would not understand, and also let me tell you this that a majority of the population in India does not support your intentions to any limit,

  • Byram Sidhwa

    Is Aspi the spokesperson for the so called persons who believe that culture and Religion are both combined?. Culture also includes mode of dressing. Do we dress up like those Ladies and gents we see in portraits in Atash Behrams? No or Yes?
    In fact Madon & Mirza have received free publicity courtesy BPP. This is akin to a publicity received by a Novel or a history book which is banned.
    Whe have heard the tune ‘we are in majority’ far too often. If that be the case WHY ARE THESE “PURE” ELEMENTS shuddering at the thought of a REFERENDUM. Why do they get loose motions whenever the issue of Referendum is suggested?
    As for the ‘unity’ of such misleaders the cause is different and one needs to read PTA column of Mumbai Samachar dated the 29th August.

  • Zerxes.Dordi

    Moderatorji,
    With 93 messages on this topic, shall we have a century? Me thinks it is time to bring down the curtain on this subject? What say you?

  • Zerxes…..I agree !