Mumbai Parsis step in defence of banned priests

The Bombay high court has admitted an appeal, filed by eminent Parsis, challenging a ban on two Zoroastrian priests from praying at the Towers of Silence because they have been conducting initiation ceremonies for children from mixed marriages.

By Manoj R Nair  / DNA

Former municipal commissioner Jamshed Kanga and former managing director of Tata Chemicals Homi Khusrokhan had approached the court after the Bombay Parsi Punchayet (BPP) banned priests Framroze Mirza and Khushroo Madon from praying or performing religious ceremonies at the BPP-managed Towers of Silence: Godavara Agiary at Fort and SF Jokhi Agiary at Godrej Baug, Napeansea Road.

The two have been joined by prominent Parsis like former solicitor general of India TR Andhyarujina, Thermax group’s Anu Aga, gynaecologist Dr Rustom Soonawala, Dr Keki (Hector) Grant of Pune’s Ruby Clinic, and Dilnawaz Variava, wife of former Supreme Court judge Sam Variava.

The priests were banned in June 2009 because they had been conducting Navjotes for children from mixed marriages and offering after-death prayers for those opting for non-traditional funerals.

After the ban, Kanga and Khusrokhan had earlier taken out what is called an Originating Summon to find out whether the BPP’s trust deeds gave its trustees the authority to decide on a religious matter.

“Originating Summons are filed to seek the court’s assistance in interpreting legal documents,” said Kanga. “The BPP trustees said they had passed the resolution banning the priests after they were asked to do so by the community’s high priests.”

The court had dismissed the application. Kanga and Khusrokhan then filed an appeal against the order. On Wednesday, the court admitted the appeal and scheduled the next hearing on November 8.

The BPP has challenged the appeal. Dinshaw Mehta, BPP chairman, said, “The appeal’s maintainability has to be argued. That is why we agreed mutually to have the matter heard early.”

  • phiroze

    What misplaced EGOS can lead so called eminent Parsis to……

  • falijimmy@hotmail.com

    My million thanks to these seven wonderful people who are defending me.I have done nothing wrong and am doing the right thing as per the tenets of our wonderful ZOROASTRIAN RELIGION.In this connection I had written an article “I AM NOT IRRELIGIOUS” which is published in this “Parsi Khabar” under the title “Ervad Khushroo Madon sends mail for support”
    Subscribers of this “Parsi Khabar” are requested to read the same(in Archives) wherein I have quoted over 25 avesta scholars and dasturs whose Gatha and other prayers’ translations prove that Zoroastrian Religion is Universal and what I am doing is not at all wrong but 100% correct.
    After reading the same I am sure you will be convinced that I am right and the present B.P.P. and WAPIZ ARE WRONG.Please post your comments at the end of my above referred article .
    I will continue to do the good work of our Prophet Zarthustra in keeping his wonderful “ZOROASTRIAN RELIGION ALIVE”
    May Dadar Ahurmazda bless us all and may good sense prevail.

    Ervad Khushroo Madon.

  • Ervad Hoshang J. Bhadha Ph.D.

    It is sad to witness a human law & order person with bunch of wealthy & famous dignitaries about to judge HIS WISDOM in making of religion and this material world. We believe and never question our teacher/ professor to understand the smallest particle on earth “atom” and most definitely never question its (atom) existence and “activity within” upon seeing through the microscope …….. However when it comes to religion or any ultra-physical connection with our life (energies, events, spiritual compositions) including the connection of Urvaan with HIS Divine Plan to practice HIS designated Path, we question its existence. WHY? just think about it.

    Ignorance of Religion prevails across the board. Whether you name Madon’s copied literal translations from western scholars or liberal Parsee Avesta students. The test is NOT whether we should allow those Priests to practice in BPP religious properties. It IS a test of Spiritual Powers vs human intellect in understanding His Wisdom ….. a simple example of Madon’s ignorance and people who support his references is clearly depicted in his using the terms “Seven Keshvars” for seven regions of this material world. There are many such references Mr Madon tried to connect with earthly life, imposing his ignorance of terminology/ expressions used in Avesta like “spreading religion in this world” and “universality of religion” etc. His justifications are repeated since ages by people marrying outside and those who believe in conversion, to adopt literal translations of so-called western Scholars to retain their religious rights and benefits. Just to make a point allow me to explain the meaning and purpose of Keshvar which Mr. Madon has repeatedly used to establish “Z-religion for the world and not for few” to make his point across. If the reader can understand the following explaination I think you are one step closer to HIS Wisdom.

    “At the end of every Nyaesh and Yasht prayer there is
    reference to ‘Haft Keshvar Zamin’_ seven Keshvars, of which six are located in far-super-ethereal heights, and the seventh called Khanirath Bami, lit., golden or shining shore (Yt. 10,15) is the only terrestrial Keshvar which is entirely different from the above six as explained below.
    The term Keshvar is referred to in Avesta (ibid.) as
    Karshvare. According to Kanga dictionary, Karshvare is derived from Karesh, to draw the circle, and means a country or region. Then it is added there: “The earth is divided into seven Karshvares separated from one another by seas and mountains”, and then the names of the seven Keshvars enumerated in Meher Yt. 15 are reproduced. Thus the seven Keshvars are mistaken to be the divisions of the earth. This is due to the fact that it is not known in philology that Avesta treats mostly of the invisible worlds above in phraseology of the material world, and besides the above paragraph is shrouded in allegory. Thus with regard to seas and mountains, the vast expanses of the inner homologues (of the top three Dakhyus) engendering superethereal waves are referred to as Zarehs, seas, which are not of water; the un-imaginable height of the heaven of the zodiac is compared with the top of a mountain,” Haraiti-Barez, Mt. Alborz (Yt. 10,51); and one of its 27 constellations is depicted
    as its peak, Taer (Yt. 12,25); the flow of holy vibrationary currents of Asha Chithra (Ysn. 19,1) from the planetary world is depicted as river; the different paths, Patham (Ysn. 42,1) are not the East Street or West Street of a city, but the different paths of religions, and so on. Karshvare according to its derivation Karesh implies a circular country or region. We know that no country or region of the known material world is circular. Hence Karshvares are not the divisions
    of earth as imagined by philological scholars. The term Karshvare is so derived because the six super-ethereal Keshvars are fiery orbs, where reside saintly souls who have gained Tane-Pasin, the last fiery-type body fit to reside in the fiery orbs of the six superethereal Keshvars.”

  • Rémi

    Ervad Hoshang Bhadha:

    I’m pleased to read that you bring up the issue of “Haft Keshvar Zamin”, because I wrote you an e-mail on this topic mid-August, and I have not got any answer from you so far. So I’m convinced that you will find a few minutes to give me some extra explanations this time.

    You insist that ‘Keshvar’ means ‘circle’, and advocate the fact that no physical region on Earth is circular to conclude that ‘Keshvar’ is not a region on Earth, and thus it must refer to a super-etheral place.
    I am a little ill at ease with this argument for two reasons:

    – If I follow your logic, the 6 circles of the Holy Roman Empire sould not exist ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Circle ) since they are hardly circular, and the Palace Square in St Petersburg ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_Square ) is a luminous orb because it is not a geometrical square!

    – The same argument could be used against your fiery orb definition: how can you infer that these fiery orbs are circular? They could also be cubical, or spherical or of any other shape! There is no means to find out what the shape of the superetheral places are, so you can not say that your definition is authoritative.

    I hope that you will be able to give me the key to understand your post the right way.

    Best regards,

  • Religious but Rational

    Once again for Phiroze, who else?
    IS IT ‘RIGHT’ PLACED EGOS OF OUR SELF STYLED H I G H PRIESTS THAT SOME SELECT INDIVIDUALS CAN “REVERT” TO OUR FAITH EVEN THOUGH THEIR OWN PARENTS WERE NOT PRACTICING ZOROASTRIANS.
    WHAT IS WRONG IF PRAYERS/SACRAMENTS ARE OFFERED BY ER. MADON FOR THOSE WHO DUE TO NONFUNCTIONAL & FAILED SYSTEM OF DISPOSAL OF CORPSES ARE LEFT WITH NO ALTERNATIVE BUT TO GET CREMATED.?
    P.S. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN COURT CASES BUT I FEEL THAT OBSTINACY AND CUSSEDNESS OF THOSE WHO GOT ELECTED BY A MARGIN OF 6000. VOTES IS THE CAUSE OF DISCORD.

  • llamedos

    Type your comment here…
    I am curious about the thesis Ervad Hoshang J. Bhada submitted for his Ph. D. and if he was awarded a Doctorate; no undue disrespect to the scholar!

  • R.Kayani.

    Er. Bhadha Saheb,
    Since u appear to be a profoundly knowledgeable person on our religion,I would like to know the reasons behind the following Tarikats:

    1. What is the reason for forbidding Parsis from offering Avesta Prayers facing northern direction?

    2. It is said that after performing Kasti in a Fire Temple, one must NOT tuck his shirt inside the trouser at the time of entering the Main Hall of the Fire Temple. IS THIS MANDATORY AND IF SO WHY.
    Awaiting your reasoned reply.
    Thanx in advance.

  • falijimmy@hotmail.com

    Dear Ervad Hoshang,
    You have mentioned the following three lines which are absolutely false and irrelevant.I quote:-

    1) Whether you name Madon’s copied literal translations of Western scholars or liberal parsi avesta students.

    2)….. a simple example of Madon’s ignorance and people who support his references is clearly depicted in his using the terms “Seven Keshvars” for seven regions of this material world. There are many such references Mr Madon tried to connect with earthly life, imposing his ignorance of terminology/ expressions used in Avesta like “spreading religion in this world” and “universality of religion” etc.

    3)…. allow me to explain the meaning and purpose of Keshvar which Mr. Madon has repeatedly used to establish “Z-religion for the world and not for few” to make his point across.

    In your No.1 comment I wish to state that the following are not WESTERN SCHOLARS OR LIBERAL PARSI AVESTA STUDENTS whose translations of Gathas and other prayers I have quoted in my letter”I AM NOT IRRELIGIOUS” which it seems you have not read fully(12 pages) or have not understood it.
    1)Dastur Kanga, 2)Ms.Dina G Mcintyre, 3)Dastur Neriosanch, 4)Mobed Firouz Azargoshasb, 5) Prof.T. R. Sethna 6) Mobed Bahram Shahzadi, 7) Prof. K. D. Irani, 8) Prof.Farrokh Vajifdar, 9) Dastur Jamaspi Jamaspasha, 10) Dastur Dhalla,
    11) Dastur Dr. Jehan Bagli, 12) Dastur Dr. Kersy Antia. 13)Dastur N.D. Minocherhomji, 14) Dastur Bode 15) Prof. Nanavutty. 16)Prof. Sidhwa,17) Prof. Taraporewala, 18)Prof. S.J.Bulsara, 19)Dr. B. T. Anklesaria, 20) Prof. Bahman Surti. 21) Dr. Homi Dhalla..

    You mean to say the above PARSI SCHOLARS AND DASTURS ARE WESTERN SCHOLARS AND LIBERAL PARSI AVESTA STUDENTS ??, AND THEY ARE ALL WRONG AND HAVE TRANSLATED LITERALY AND HENCE WE HAVE TO IGNORE THEIR TRANSLATIONS AND ACCEPT YOUR EXPLANATION AS CORRECT. By saying so you have insulted such respected scholars and dasturs.These scholars are absolute authorities and hence even our present six dasturs in India, supported by B.P.P. and WAPIZ cannot contradict them.

    2)The above mentioned 21 Scholarsl have ALSO not referred to ‘HAFT KESHWAR ZAMIN” PHRASE everywhere in their translations. which you are harping on WRONGLY.

    3)I have not repeatedly used the word ‘KESHWAR’ AS ALLEGED BY YOU. in my article to establish Z religion for the world and not for a few. to make my point across .

    You are talking about my ignorance.I have no where given my translations or opinions any where in my article,but have QUOTED THE TRANSLATIONS OF LEARNED DASTURS AND AVESTA SCHOLARS,so how will my ignorance as alleged by you in any way affect my article proving that Zoroastrian Religion is UNIVERSAL.

    In your last para you say ” Hence Karshvares are not the divisions
    of earth as imagined by philological scholars. The term Karshvare is so derived because the six super-ethereal Keshvars are fiery orbs, where reside saintly souls who have gained Tane-Pasin, the last fiery-type body fit to reside in the fiery orbs of the six superethereal Keshvars.”

    This is irrelevant and IS NOT IMAGINED BY PHILOLOGICAL SCHOLARS as alleged by you.These over 30 scholars whom I have quoted are not imagining any thing. They have laid down the evidences from Gathas and prayers and have proved beyond a single doubt that “ZOROASTRIAN RELIGION IS UNIVERSAL AND NOT ONLY FOR THE PARSEES OF INDIA

    With warm regards,

    Ervad Khushroo Madon..

  • falijimmy@hotmail.com

    Dear Ervad Hoshang,
    You have mentioned the following three lines which are absolutely false and irrelevant.I quote:-

    1) Whether you name Madon’s copied literal translations of Western scholars or liberal parsi avesta students.

    2)….. a simple example of Madon’s ignorance and people who support his references is clearly depicted in his using the terms “Seven Keshvars” for seven regions of this material world. There are many such references Mr Madon tried to connect with earthly life, imposing his ignorance of terminology/ expressions used in Avesta like “spreading religion in this world” and “universality of religion” etc.

    3)…. allow me to explain the meaning and purpose of Keshvar which Mr. Madon has repeatedly used to establish “Z-religion for the world and not for few” to make his point across.

    In your No.1 comment I wish to state that the following are not WESTERN SCHOLARS OR LIBERAL PARSI AVESTA STUDENTS whose translations of Gathas and other prayers I have quoted in my letter”I AM NOT IRRELIGIOUS” which it seems you have not read fully(12 pages) or have not understood it.
    1)Dastur Kanga, 2)Ms.Dina G Mcintyre, 3)Dastur Neriosanch, 4)Mobed Firouz Azargoshasb, 5) Prof.T. R. Sethna 6) Mobed Bahram Shahzadi, 7) Prof. K. D. Irani, 8) Prof.Farrokh Vajifdar, 9) Dastur Jamaspi Jamaspasha, 10) Dastur Dhalla,
    11) Dastur Dr. Jehan Bagli, 12) Dastur Dr. Kersy Antia. 13)Dastur N.D. Minocherhomji, 14) Dastur Bode 15) Prof. Nanavutty. 16)Prof. Sidhwa,17) Prof. Taraporewala, 18)Prof. S.J.Bulsara, 19)Dr. B. T. Anklesaria, 20) Prof. Bahman Surti. 21) Dr. Homi Dhalla..

    You mean to say the above PARSI SCHOLARS AND DASTURS ARE WESTERN SCHOLARS AND LIBERAL PARSI AVESTA STUDENTS ??, AND THEY ARE ALL WRONG AND HAVE TRANSLATED LITERALY AND HENCE WE HAVE TO IGNORE THEIR TRANSLATIONS AND ACCEPT YOUR EXPLANATION AS CORRECT. By saying so you have insulted such respected scholars and dasturs.These scholars are absolute authorities and hence even our present six dasturs in India, supported by B.P.P. and WAPIZ cannot contradict them.

    2)The above mentioned 21 Scholars have ALSO not referred to ‘HAFT KESHWAR ZAMIN” PHRASE everywhere in their translations, which you are harping on WRONGLY.

    3)I have not repeatedly used the word ‘KESHWAR’ AS ALLEGED BY YOU. in my article to establish Z religion for the world and not for a few. to make my point across .

    You are talking about my ignorance.I have no where given my translations or opinions any where in my article,but have QUOTED THE TRANSLATIONS OF LEARNED DASTURS AND AVESTA SCHOLARS,so how will my ignorance as alleged by you in any way affect my article proving that Zoroastrian Religion is UNIVERSAL.

    In your last para you say ” Hence Karshvares are not the divisions
    of earth as imagined by philological scholars. The term Karshvare is so derived because the six super-ethereal Keshvars are fiery orbs, where reside saintly souls who have gained Tane-Pasin, the last fiery-type body fit to reside in the fiery orbs of the six superethereal Keshvars.”

    This is irrelevant and IS NOT IMAGINED BY PHILOLOGICAL SCHOLARS as alleged by you.These over 30 scholars whom I have quoted are not imagining any thing. They have laid down the evidences from Gathas and prayers and have proved beyond a single doubt that “ZOROASTRIAN RELIGION IS UNIVERSAL AND NOT ONLY FOR THE PARSEES OF INDIA

    With warm regards,

    Ervad Khushroo Madon..

  • Byram Sidhwa

    llamedos has a point.
    Is Er. Bhadha a doctorate in Avesta or any other subject related to Zoroastrian theology or in any other mundane subject.
    Would Er. Saheb . BHADHA care to inform the title of his dissertatiuon which his submitted for obtaining his doctorate?
    Thanks in advance Er. Bhadha in case you are candid toi reply

  • barialaw

    Type your comment here…well it is about time the prominent in the community took a strong stand here. please, please do not let the respected BPP dictate who can and cannot enter this faith, or we will be destroyed and rendered extinct in short order.

  • piloo_2

    There are shares in various prominent companies held by Parsee shareholders who are no more and there are no legitimate claimants. Ditto for Banks, having crores as unclaimed deposits of Parsees who have left for heavenly abode.
    The aim of some shrewd operators in our community is that if the numbers of Parees get reduced, property will fall in hands of progeny of these shrewd operators. The writing on the Wall is clear as to their ulterior motives.of talking tall about racial purity (!).

  • phiroze

    RNR not again,
    Please read the last 2 paras of the article ie The application was dismissed first and the appeal’s maintainability is in doubt and to be argued.

    Mr Madon is free to pray for and at all places except only these three which are under the BPP.

  • phiroze

    Madon and his 21 gatha scholars,

    Zoroastrianism is the FIRST religion known to Mankind. If Ahura MAzda (GOD) wanted it to be UNIVERSAL as per their translation why did he send later Jesus Mohamed Moses at different times to start Christanity, Islam etc?

  • Religious but Rational

    Mr. PHIROZE.
    READ MY POST OF 28TH ULTIMO. I HAVE CLEARLY SAID THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE IN COURT CASES. AS SAID BY SOMEONE ELSE, YOU SEEM TO WANT YOUR NAME TO APPEAR AS THE LAST WORD.
    THE NEXT QUESTION IS B.P.P. IS THE ‘EMPLOYER’ OF A PARTICULAR PRIEST. IN OTHER WORDS IS THERE IS A EMPLOYER -EMPLOYEE RELATIONSHIP SUBSISTING BETWEEN A PERFORMING MOBED SAY MR. ABC AND B.P.P.
    IF SO WHY B.P.P. MANAGER AT TOWERS OF SILENCE DOES NOT INCLUDE PRAYER CHARGES OF RECITING MOBEDS IN THE BILL?
    NEXT QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE POSITION OF
    ER. JAL.BALSARA IF B.P.P. IS THE EMPLOYER. IS HE NOT THE ONE WHO PAYS THE RECITING MOBEDS. IN THIS REGARD THE STAND OF CEO OF B.P.P BECOMES MOST PERTINENT. THE STATEMENT OF B.P P. CEO I AM REFERRING TO IS IN REGARD TO MATTER OF ALLEGED MISCONDUCT OF ER. JAL BALSARA AND THE FUNERAL OF A PARSEE FEMALE WHO HAD SUPPOSEDLY GIVEN UP ZOROASTRIANISM AND YET THE PANTHAKI OF VATCHA GANDHI FIRE TEMPLE HAD ARRANGED FOR GEH SARNA. ON BOTH THESE MATTERS THE STAND OF B.P.P. WAS THAT THEY DO NOT PROVIDE PRIESTS/HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ARRANGEMENT OF PRAYER CEREMONIES . SO PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT B.P.P. IS N O T THE EMPLOYER OF RECITING PRIESTS BUT IT IS THE PANTHAKI OF THE CONCERNED FIRE TEMPLE AND IN CASE OIF DOONGERWADI IT IS ER. JAL BALSARA.
    DO NOT TAKE A STAND THAT YOU KNOW ‘EVERYTHING OF ALL THINGS’. LEARN TO RESPECT KNOWLEDGE OF OTHERS EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO YOUR LIKING AND SET BELIEFS.

  • Voice of Reason

    R but R & others.
    According to a person who has opted to call himself Phiroze (may be his genuine first name) & Er Bhadha, all others are ignoramuses/duffers/reformists and Phiroze & Bhadha alongwith self made ‘HIGH’ priests and a coterie of WAPIZ have the knowledge and authority to interpret Religious texts and their thinking should become FIRMANS.In the process they even want to ignore and insult the Scholars of eminence like late Dasturs like Jamaspi Jamaspasa,/Dastur Kanga/Dastur N.D. Minocherhomji,
    Bhadha & Phiroze fit the bill to be labelled as despots with distubed minds full of arrogance.

  • Zerxes.Dordi

    A very ‘intelligent point has been raised by Phiroze that if Ahura Mazdawanted our religion to be universal, ‘why did he send later Jesus Mohamed Moses at different times to start Christanity, Islam etc?’
    Any proof that Ahura Mazda was responsible for sending Jesus & others?
    An identical question can be raised that why have so many ‘babas’ come on the scene, if the respective Religions were perfect.???

  • phiroze

    RBR,
    As Trustees of these institutions, the BPP trustees have excercised their powers under instructions of the High Priests. Please read the last line of my post again.
    You have raised the question of employer/employee relationship not me.
    I shall take a stand and you nor anyone else cannot stop me. You may not agree if you do not like it but you cannot hide from the truth.

  • Religious but Rational

    MR. PHIROZE,
    YOU CAN TAKE AS MANY STANDS ON AS MANY ISSUES THAT YOU DESIRE. BUT YOU CAN NOT I REPEAT YOU CAN NOT FORCE YOUR FIXED IDEAS ON OTHERS. NOR CAN YOU STOP THE MARCH OF TIME.
    THE FACTS REMAINS THAT ZOROASTRIANISM AS A RELIGION IS SPREADING ALL AROUND THE UNIVERSE AND PERSONS EMBRACE OUR FAITH DISREGARDING OBJECTIONS FROM PERSONS LIKE YOU AND YOU CAN NOT DO ANYTHING. THATS THE HAR & PLAINFACT YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH. HOWSOEVER IT IS DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO SWALLOW.
    WHAT IS THE AUTHORITY OF YOUR ‘HIGH’ PRIESTS OVER THE MIND / SOUL/ FREEDOM OF OTHERS?
    AND THEIR ‘HIGHNESS’ DOES NOT ALLOW DISCRETION TO DISCRIMINATE. BETWEEN TWO SET OF INDIVIDUALS.
    YOU ARE FREE TO REPLY ANY IRRELEVANT TEXT BUT I WILL JUST IGNORE IT AS TRASH.

  • Religious but Rational

    VOICE OF REASON.
    I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU. SUCH CHARACTERS ASSUME THEMSELVES TO BE SAVIOURS OF RELIGION AND MASTERS OF DESTINY AND SOUL OF OTHERS.

  • Byram Sidhwa

    My hats off to Rational but Religious for raising a very apt legal issue of employer employee relationship.It requiresa thinking mind.
    Men like Phiroze will try to terminate employment of servant of his neighbour. How far valid and enforceable that can be will be known even to a school boy of VI grade.
    It is time to ignore bakwas of persons like Phiroze. Dears all take such posts without logical replies as a pastime and just ignore the person who can not deal with point wise issues and adopts an attitude of a a 19th century headmaster of a rural/village school – . I urge -Just plain IGNORE posts of such persons with carryover of baggage of ideas of great grandfathers and who in 21st century can NOT read the writings on the Wall. Keep it up R but R.

  • Rémi

    First:
    “that if Ahura Mazdawanted our religion to be universal, ‘why did he send later Jesus Mohamed Moses at different times to start Christanity, Islam etc”

    Advocating that God decides of the advent of new religions implies that God also decides of fall of religions. Hence God would have wanted Zoroastrians in the Sassanian Empire to become Muslims after the Arab invasion, and the ones who disobey God’s will would not be the ones you think of.

    Then:
    “the BPP trustees have excercised their powers under instructions of the High Priests.” So should we understand that trustees are nothing more than handymen who carry out what high priests decide in the backstage? An interesting perspective indeed…

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    As a student of Zoroastrianism I would be oblidge if Er. Bhadha would help me with giving the details of the unknown newly retrieved books from where he refers. Also just to make a point we here only believe in what the Gathas are teaching us and not what some unknown person at some unknown time way after Zarathushtra had written and with what intention(?). Anyway atleast first provide us with what you say you have and we shall see the authenticity of it later.

    KHSHNAOTHRE AHURAHE MAZDAO

  • phiroze

    VOR,
    Atleast I have the courage to use my own name unlike a coward like you who hides behind so called reason. This is a bolg where evrybody is free to air their views. You have the choice to disagree or agree using your so called reason. Does that make you a despot / arrogant is for you to reason.

  • phiroze

    Zerxes Dordi,

    Do you really want me to answer this? Are you claiming monopoly over Ahura Mazda for the Zoroastrians / PArsis. Now we know why its so easy to become a baba in these times.

  • Zerxes.Dordi

    I never knew that books of other Religions viz Bible,/Testaments/ Gita/Grant Sahib make reference to Ahura Mazda, as one Phiroze wants us to believe.Now I fathom why Byram Sidhwa suggests that one should not enter into a wasteful argument with a knowledgable (?) person . Got it Byram.

  • Voice of Reason

    I can understand the shortcomings nay handicap of Phiroze in his express inability to rationally counter argue the points raised by me and others and he is sadly mistaken if he assumes he will be able to silence my sane and rational voice by misusing the word coward against me. Usage of such derogatory adjectives is NO SUBSTITUTE for rational debate based on facts. But as they say those who are short on facts resort to name calling to derive self satisfaction of having given a ‘reply’ for sake of record. Pity such a person for his ‘bhankas’ unlimited..

  • Shaimak Madon

    While I state my own name in full, I see no reason to call those who use their moniker as “COWARDS” as Phiroze has done.
    By the way, Phiroze if those using such monikers are cowards, you can not say that you yopurself are bold/courageous, for amongst Parsis alone there must be at least 2,000, Phiroze, Phiroz, Pheroze,Firoze & Feroze. So their identity too remains under burkha.
    If for a moment you are imagining that those using such terms as Voice of Reason & R&R are scared, then I must conclude that you are under some wrong illusion.

  • phiroze

    Zerxes,

    Thanks for again making a fool of yourself. Thanks to Byram for making you fathom to keep quite around those not as foolish as yourself. Maybe Byram can also make you fathom that Ahura Mazda, God of the Bible, Allah of the Koran, Wahe Guru of Granth Sahib, Bhagwan of Bhagvad Gita are the same entity. Even Ahura MAzda seems to have given up on you from your KNOWLEDGE of Him. You may never know!!!!

  • CONTRA-DHONGI

    Phiroze assumes that all those who write under pen names are so scared of scarecrows who author yellow journalism in FPJ each fortnight that persons like Voice of Reason &
    R but R do not disclose their full names for being ‘victimised’ !
    LOL.

  • Shaimak Madon

    Ir seems our friend PHIROZE has proceded on French leave from this portal. Wishing him well.
    Any way, was reading current Jame Weekly in which BPP Chairman has said that ‘wise leadrers of the past never faced such blatant and defiantly sacrilegious acts against our religion’.Extra strong words coming from a Trustee of standing for nealy two decades convenientlly forgetting the Uthamna of
    J R D Tata and Wadia Navjotes took place during the time of earlier Boards of Trustees (of which he too was a member) but wisely that Board did not precipitate matters by issuing a fatwa and ironically those High Priests who are now pro fatwa would have themselves been declared ‘renegades’ had the earlier Board of Trustees been men of similar predilections.
    Or is it that the author of this craftily worded statement assumes that ALL members of our community suffer from senile DEMENTIA and have forgotten such ‘exceptions’.???

  • phiroze

    Shaimak,
    My friend I was indeed on a vacation to Iranshah and other anjumans of Gujarat. Thank u for your wishes. I am glad to report that things are looking good in these places. My offer to you and others to know my identity is still open. Most of these pen namers have skeletons hanging in their cupboards so are reluctant to come out in the open. I have no fear of facing such.

  • Shaimak Madon

    Phiroze,
    Thanks for your willingness to reveal your identity. Please hereafter post messages in your full name.If you want to communicate with me directly,then let me know and I will gladly let you have my E Mail address on this forum. O.K.?

  • Voice of Reason

    S.Madon,
    Sir,
    You seriously expect this guy to disclose his real identity?
    History has established that all those who brag about being bold and brave and allege that others have skeletons in cupboards are themseves hesitant to disclose their own identities. Perhaps their own cupboard is bare and are too ashamed to open and show to others. Cheers for your post of 4th November. Finding persons with name of Phiroze will be like finding a needle in haystack.
    WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PERSON writing under a pen name or an assumed name or only under his first name.Before calling others as cowards, such ‘brave and bold’ should think of what is in store in their own backyard.

  • Religious but Rational

    Sentiments expressed by Voice of Reason are very apt. We are not concerned if whosoever is expressing his jurassic and fossilised views is actually having name of Pervez or Phiroze or Rustom or Sorab or Behram. It is the contents that matter. By the way my queries dated !st instant could not be refuted by any one on this board.

  • Religious but Rational

    My offer to you and others to know my identity is still open – so writes a person Phiroze and you Shaimak Madon are simple enought to believe that.Such brave(!) call others cowards and such like refrains to pretend to be brave but their bravado is all empty and remains only verbal only. Has so called Phiroze contacted you Mr. Madon? Sentiments expressed by Voice of Reason are very apt. We are not concerned if whosoever is expressing his jurassic and fossilised views is having his genuine name of Pervez or Phiroze or Rustom or Sorab or Behram.No prizes for guessing his true identity.

    It is the contents that matter. By the way my queries dated !st instant could not be refuted by any one on this board.

  • phiroze

    Shaimak,
    When I came to this blog for the first time a couple of months back I observed that most of the bloggers were either using only first name or were hidding behind pen names (Majority) hence I used only my first name. I dare so called voice of reason/ RBR/ZZ and such to a face to face meeting anytime.

  • phiroze

    Shaimak,
    Most of these pen namers are Muslims turned neo Zoroastrians of Iran who are running scared of the their government due to their anti national activities. They do not belive in any of the rituals and say that what we Parsis follow is not true Zoroastrism and claim to be the real followers of Zarathustra. There is a bunch of them on facebook. Beware of such wolves in sheeps clothing. Parsis have nothing to do with these muslims.

  • Shaimak Madon

    Phiroze,
    Here I am not speaking on behalf of any person using a pen name or first name. I am referring to you a pure Parsee more specifically to your post of the 11th to the effect that you had no fear and your offer to me and others to know your identity was OPEN. Having said so, I suggested to you that henceforth you should post all your views mentioning you name in FULL.(Read my post of 11th inst.) In fact I even went to the extent of suggesting that we could have one on one exchange of views and that you were free to obtain my E Mail address from the Moderator. Then why this hesitancy in disclosing your own identity.?
    You have given an issue to those whom you label as converts of convenience to equate you with them. Are you scared of being criticised for your views that you express and your friends and neighbours knowing about it ? You can not justify remaining partially hidden without a genuine reason.In fact even if you are residing in a Charity Block, you views as they are should earn goodwill of the Trustees. So why this apprehension for unfathomable reason.I leave it to your conscience to decide but by only mentioning your first name does not place you on a higher pedestal than those usiing their acronyms. Thats my view, sorry if that is not liked by you but I beleive in calling spade a spade.

  • Religious but Rational

    The imagination level of “Phiroze’ is astonishing. Probably it refelcts the teaching imparted by elders of his time.
    As for me, I am a young female and a child from both parents being staunch Parsee Zoroastrians. I am a firm faith in Zoro prayers and for the information of over suspicious Phiroze have has by Navjote ceremony performed by my parents over a decade and ahalf back. That does not mean that I should lock my mind and believe all mumbo jumbo that persons like “Phiroze’ incessantly attempt to brainwash. The reason for my penning my messages as Religious but Rational is that it reflects my outlook and at the same time enables likes of ‘Phiroze’ to demonstrate their vast ‘intellectual ability’ in calling me a convert scared of Mullas of Iran though I am a Parsi Zoroastrian and an Indian citizen by birth. And of course resident citizen of India.
    If we have such gem geniuses with label of orthodox ,what shall we call petty minded bigots? Perhaps the poresent rulers of Iran are more tolerant than alpro soi called Phiroze.
    Our forefathers escaped Persia and landed on Indian shores to escape persecution and here we have a ‘Phiroze” obliquely admiring Mulla regime of present day Iran and Ahmadinejad by saying that“Most of these pen namers are Muslims turned neo Zoroastrians of Iran who are running scared of the their government due to their anti national activities”. In short the person who calls himself “Phiroze ‘considers repressions of Mulla regime as NATIONALISTIC and those opposed to it as anti national. !!!

  • Voice of Reason

    I thought we were discussing serious issues on this forum but we have a Judge in our midst who assumes that all those individuals who post their independent views are ‘Muslim convert (LOL). Phiroze or who so ever he/she is needs to know that just as he has a reason not to reveal his identity, similarly others too have their reasons. Firstly I am myself married to a Parsi Priest a navar martab at that.- though he is not a practicing Priest as a profession. I hold my own views on our Religion and for avoiding acrimony in family life, I am giving vent to my views using the title – Voice of Reason.
    The least I expect Phiroze to do is to aplogise for his far fetched remark. But since he is an ardent admirer of present day regime in Iran and calls persecuted Zoroastrians there as anti nationals, I think an apology would be too daunting for men of Phiroze’;s calibre. to offer. That is for born gentlemen to gracefully accept their blunders.

  • phiroze

    Shaimak,
    My offer for a face to face identity disclosure is always open to all. Emails do not reveal the true identities either. My views are not only known to my family and friends but they respect the same. We often have healthy arguments on the same and repect each others views.
    By the blessings of Ahura Mazda, right guidance of the elders of my family and my own hard work I was never and never will be dependant on Any Kind Of Charity so I have no fear to speak out against anyone who is wrong as per what I was taught by my elders and my beliefs.

  • phiroze

    RBR,
    The operative word of my post is MOST! Your irrationality reflects the teachings of your elders perfectly. Even Ahura MAzda will have a rough time saving Parsis from rationals like your elders and yourself. Suggest you get your oblique rationality checked if u think I care for what happens in Iran. There are enough irrationals on this blog to keep me entertained. In short you are absolutely irrational.

  • Byram Sidhwa

    Did I not tell you all in advance by my post of 2nd Nov hereabove that you are wasting your time discussing an issue ? “. I urge -Just plain IGNORE posts of such persons with carryover of baggage of ideas of great grandfathers and who in 21st century can NOT read the writings on the Wall. Keep it up R but R.” That hold true for rest of you intelligent folks. Do deliberate amongst yourselves on this portal but ignore those having 18th Century mind in a 20th Century body living in 21st Century.
    It is easy to call others cowards and thus pat one’s own back as brave and show false willingness to mention their full identity but when called upon to show his true identity such ‘bold and brave’ will start displaying theit ‘true colors’.
    If we all make it a point to ignore such handful of ‘protectors’ they will soon disappear in to oblivion.

  • Zerxes.Dordi

    ‘Emails do not reveal the true identities either’ -Select quote from Phiroze is a piece of confession shall we assume?

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    To all
    Why do we give Mr. Phiroze so much importance, if still one needs to know his identity and since our friend here Mr. Phiroze is reluctant to give his identity I may do the needfull.

    Name Phiroze Panthaky (Navar)
    Father was the panthaky of Nargol Agyari

    But the most important thing is he not only pens down his thought as Phiroze on Parsi Khabar but also writes from his own ID (Phiroze Panthaky) on Facebook and a special ID called as Firoze Kanga on Facebook as he is scared of the repercussions for the same.

    KHSHNAOTHRE AHURAHE MAZDAO

  • Religious but Rational

    Dear Z Z..,
    It is not that one wants to give importance to this individual, it is the hypocrisy of calling those using nick names as cowards/irrational etc and pretending to be holier than thou that caused annoyance. Any way, he has established the saying ‘pot calling the kettle black’.

  • phiroze

    ZZ RBR BS ZD,

    This proves that I am not, was never and will never be a coward like you all to hide my true identity. I have no skeletons in my closet like you all do. Just one clarification Firoze Kanga is not my id. Now lets see if you all have the guts to come out in the open with your true identities else my calling you all cowards is justified. Today Parsis have the most to fear from the likes of you. ZZ I am awaiting your response on FB. Pls acknowledge the source of your info, our common friend on FB.

  • phiroze

    ZZZ,
    Please show me the alleged repercussions I am supposed to be scared of. You all are the ones running scared hiding your identities. My offer for face to face meetings is always open to cowards like yourself. I fear no man although a couple of your thugs Safa Bidavi on FB tried to scar me with taekwondo pose on his FB profile pics.

  • Shaimak Madon

    Phiroze/Firoz, you are free to flatter yourself with self compliments. Pleasure all yours.But the fact of the matter disputably is you did not disclose your identity on your own but got exposed, that’s the sum and substance. Apart from calling others cowards, you have nor covered yourself with any glory as far as actual contents of your posts which contain only invectives and foul words.

  • Zarathushtra Zarthosti

    Dear Mr. Phiroze Panthaki

    Saheb Let me once and for all get a few things straight,

    1 ) Nobody here or on facebook has ever stated that you are a coward and also I bring your ID to light does not prove you are very brave or Holier since you didnot do so anyways.

    2 ) If you say Firoze Kanga is not your ID then you need not fear of the repurcussion I talked about.

    3 ) We all on Parsi Khabar and all my likes have never said we will give our identity here so question of you calling us cowards doesnot arise.

    4 ) You may keep waiting for my response because you do not understand them and get confused by them as stated by you. the reason simply because people like you read my response and all I provide with their eyes wide shut.

    5 ) I am not answerable to you so I donot feel the need to acknowledge any thing, accept to make you understand that it was obivious with your style of writting eg. YO! ZZ, OYE! ZZ and date and time of post on all the three site although you deny of one had given away your identity.

    6 ) Inspite so many good people giving so many good reason you always tend ot get personal just like the name provided here in your post (Safa Bidavi). Are you telling me a profile picture of some one in taekwondo pose on his FB profile does not give you a good night sleep.

    Sir all the evidence provided by me are the true facts and not some made up illusions of my mind, yet let me put this clearly that we are not on a frenzy to convert anyone into Zoroastrianism but importantly the discrimination done towards the interfaith married ladies and their children, also in some cases towards men cannot be justified what so ever. It is time when people from our community come together and fight against this very inhumain way and uproot it from its roots and the light of truth prevail forever.

    ATHA ZAMYAT YATHA AFRINAMI

    KHSHNAOTHRE AHURAHE MAZDAO

  • Zerxes.Dordi

    From:Zerxes,
    To Phiroze
    This refers to your post of the 18th and I cannot but state that you did try to hide your identity for reasons best known to your conscience . It is not in my upbringing to call others cowards as is your habit. So I leave it to your conscience why you did attempt to hide your identity and yet made a claim of being bold. I am not on Face Book because I consider it as a waste of time. I cannot fathom what you imply by asking others to reveal their ‘true’ identity. Do you want to read Voter’s ID Cards or Passports of others which nobody in his right senses will furnish to a Mr. No Body like you. Importantlly, do assess others by your own standards.All these days your guilty conscience made you call other cowards so as to pose yourself as ‘transparent’ but you were as transparent as a Bar Soap and not Pears Glycerin Soap.
    Expressing difference of opinion gracefully is one thing but pretending to be more honest and upright by calling others cowards shows the ‘class’ to which one belongs. That’s the characteristic trait of all those who brag being conformists/traditionalists etc.
    Your identity has been exposed by Z.Z. and that’s the bitter pill you have to accept. In the hindsight, I feel Byram Sidhwa was right when he counseled that your posts should be ignored. In future make an effort to introspect and visualize the consequences of your reckless remarks and utterances for I feel your writings have become, for others a source for banters, taunts and counter issues which you will find beyond your ability to tackle.

  • phiroze

    Shaimak, I made my reason for using only my first name very clear. Besides I was always and still am ready for a face to face meeting anytime with anyone. You are welcome to your opinion.
    Xerxes, I too am going to take byram’s counsel and ignore all your posts henceforth. I do not aspire to be of your intelectual class either. ZZ betrayed my family’s trust by his so called exposing of my identity and has admitted this himself to my family. It is indeed beyond my ability to tackle someone of your enlightenment. May the force be with you.

  • phiroze

    ZZ,

    I feel only an insolent person would use this monicker.

    Why do you need to hide your identity? If you are true to your religion what is there to be scared of?

    Your point no 4 is an appology of an excuse.

    I have nothing to fear of anybody hence the question of hidding my identity does not arise. You or those like you have not given a single good reason ever.

    You were the one talking of repercursions so I had to show you that I can stand up to the likes of Safa.

    Your evidence and facts do not stand the test of simple common sense let alone our religion. As of now we stand united against all the lies and half truths you Madon Moos etc are trying to spread. I am commited to uproot all the heretics whoever and wherever they might be

    ATHA ZAMYAT YATHA AFRINAMI

  • CONTRA-DHONGI

    All this while, I have been enjoying the verbal exchange between many boarders and a person oops a bold/brave person who claims that he has no skeletons in his closet.etc, etc.
    THEN WHY IN HIS POST of 22nd addressed to one S. Madon,THIS PERSON BY NAME PHIROZE states ‘ ZZ betrayed my family’s trust by his so called exposing of my identity and has admitted this himself to my family” IN OTHER WORDS, PHIROZE WANTED TO CONCEAL HIS IDENTITY AND HIS INTENTION WAS TO NOT REVEAL HIS FULL NAME.

  • Boman Patel

    Phiroze.
    The fact that you mention in your post of 4.37 p.m. on 22nd that you had nothing to fear. Will you please reconcile this statement with one made at 2.54 alleging that ZZ betrayed your family trust. Does this not show that you actually wanted to hide your identity and that one close confidante of yours disclosed this to ZZ. So in reality you were afraid of revealing your identity, isnt it? Be a true Zoroastrian and concede this to clear your conscience however belatedly.

  • phiroze

    Please go back further to my post to Shiamak and you both will know why I used only my first name.

    By pointing to zz, I am trying to caution everyone about the dangers of believing nameless bloggers. Then again hows one to know that Boman Patel is actually Boman Patel. My conscience is crystal clear and my offer for face to face meeting is always open. I am sure a person wanting to hide his indentity would not make such open offers consistently.