Valsad’s Parsi Woman Seeks Court Help to Worship

A Parsi woman married to a non-Parsi has sought the Gujarat High Court’s intervention to avail the fundamental right to worship and to access the religious places of Parsis she was denied by her community after her marriage.

The Public Interest Litigation (PIL), perhaps the first of its kind, was admitted in Ahmedabad Thursday. The petition was filed by Goolrokh Adi Contractor, now Goolrokh Mahipal Gupta, resident of Valsad, who married a non-Parsi in 1991.

Following her marriage, she was denied entry to the Parsi religious temple, Agiyari, as well stopped from participation in Parsi rituals.

She approached the court Thursday seeking directions to the authorities of the Fire Temple in Mota Pariwad in Valsad and to other members of community to allow her in the Agiyari.

The respondents claimed that as per Parsi tradition, Parsi women married to non-Parsis are barred from entering religious places such as Agiyari and the Tower of Silence, the place for last rites of Parsi Zoroastrians. These women were also restricted from attending and performing certain rituals.

Goolrokh feared that the trustees of the Agiyari, which belongs to Valsad Parsi Anjuman Trust, would deny her entry even when her elderly parents die and would restrain her from performing their last rites.

According to the petition, Goolrokh continuously practiced Zoroastrian religion both before and after her marriage and has not changed her religion to Hindu. She contended that being an Indian citizen, barring her to follow her religion and to stop her from enjoying privileges of the religion were violations of the rights given by the Constitution of India.

She added that there was no scripture or text book denying Parsi women their rights to worship and practice the religion after marriage to a non-Parsi.

Earlier, the case was put before a single judge but he thought it to be of public interest and preferred it to be referred to a division bench. The next hearing of the case is scheduled on April 20.

Copyright Indo Asian News

  • K. Tamboli

    DESERVES IT, where was her parsi love when she married outside the community, I firmly believe the decision will be against the lady… The court would not want to hurt the entire communities religious sentiments.

  • Anti-Dhongidox.

    Why the community wants to be in the limelight of the press for all the wrong reasons? Are we not providing free fodder to sister communities to poke fun at us?
    Times of India of 26th carries an article about opposition to replacement of Tiles of the floor of an Atashbehram.It seems some vested interests have a long term view to to push their feet in all institutions of the community whose actions at present do not seem to be in the interest of the community. In all likelihood,soon the dust in the places of worship will acquire ‘heritage status’. .
    Opposing replacement of floor tiles is just ridiculous.No single organisation can claim to represent the ENTIRE community which is deeply divided.
    The TOI article indicates that this is a case of Opposition for the sake of opposition.

  • Nari Shroff

    I salute Goolrokh for having done something which should have been done years ago. I hope she has a good lawyer to represent her case. This case could be a landmark one if properly represented.

  • Jeannie Antia

    Are there funds to help Goolrokh fight her case? Do let us know!

    Arzan, any chance of sending her my mail address, so that I can offer her my aid ?

    Jeannie

    P.S. Hope she succeeds and sets an example to fight down the discrimination of Parsi women, their spouses and children.

  • rustom jamasji

    Gukrukhs fear about entry to the fire temple may be true. Nevertheless, she was an adult and thus should have known of the factors involving such fears when she decided her love involved much more than the sacrifices made by her ancestors to preserve a tiny community.

    To now blackmail the community just to suit her need shows the attitude of’ eating the cake and hvaing it too.

    She talks of constituional rights…does she go against the rules and forbidance with regards to hindusim. Can we see her challenging Hindu customs and rights of admission according to her husbands faiths.

    Does she think that ‘Rights of Admission, applicable to Hotels, restaurants, Conferences,Offices, schools, colleges,other religion’s laws , states and countries breach constituional rights.
    If so let us see if she is allowed to enter Mecca, or have the holy communion or enter hindu temples where there are laws and certain regulations.

    What about the constitutional right of a tiny community which has to preserve itself especially in an environment very condusive to fusing into a larger section?

    If she is above all that, has she given a thought of the ‘CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS of the founders , Donors of such places and makers of such rules.>

    Probably her ilk may feel that the wills,deeds and wishes set up by the givers of zoroastrian institutions and laws therein are not constitutional!!! and they do not have the right to lay rules to institutions they have founded with their personal monies and sacrifices.

    Mrs Gupta, please keep in mind the wishes and constititional rights of the makers and donors of institutions you want to use. They may be long dead, yet it is not anyones constitutional right to deny ,meeting their will. They too have constitutional rights that enables their rules being adhered to.

    I think its the case of me, myself and I that does allow her to neglect the wishes of the ones who donated and assets that can be utitlised by generations to come, albeit with a responsibility.

  • Arzoo Irani

    Nobody can deny an individual the rights to what they receive at birth, be it the country they are born in, the religion or the parents they are born to. Goolrukh will most certainly win the rights to practice the faith she was born into and did not give up to take up another religion. Denying the husband or the children is upto the authorities to decide and may be debated, but nobody can question her rights to practice her religion by birth-not voluntarily given up by her.

  • Keki Guard

    Here we are, this was bound to take place. But just refering to our history and origin of our religion.

    Our religion is as per the teachings of Lord Zarthustra, and as far as i kow King Gustasps was the first one to follow the same and from there on we got many followers, so basically people of different religion but who beleived in the teachings of Zarthustra started following and there on were called upon as Zorastrians.

    So my question to the learned one’s are from where has this thaught come of depriving a born zorastrian from entering our fire temples or religious sites.

    Some serious thaught needs to take place. It is high time that we should not deprive them of their rights, infact after marriage if a non – parsi groom or bride wants to follow zorastrianism should be rightfully allowed.

    With the changing times we need to change. Why outcast our own sons and daughters.

    Think !!!!!

  • Daulat

    According to the rules of the Parsee Panchayat, if she is practicing Zoroastrian religion she should be allowed although, I do belive whether men or women married out and have children after that, should be barred from the zoroastrian religious / paius place of worship. You made your bed you lie in it, do not share your bed with zoroastrians that is my theory. Make believe your own religion but respect our religious terms and condition which has been followed for years. Why did we leave Iran in the first place? To save our religion, and to refuse marring an outcast.

  • keki unwalla

    great & gusty goolrokh!

  • Siloo Kapadia

    Way to go, girl! I cannot applaude Goolrokh enough.

    It is interesting that when the very, very rich Parsis married to nonParsis enter the fire temples, the priests either don’t see them or, what is more likely, do not want to see them. They are afraid that their donations will be reduced. So in their case all is well. But for the not-so-rich, forget it!

    How shameful that the entire community is hijacked by a small group of crazies that make the so-called fundamentalists of other religions look sane.

  • Voice of Reason.

    I have observed many Parsi women married to non Parsis entering Mumbai Fire Temples after performing Kusti prayers.
    Do we have one set of rules for Mumbai and another for places like Bulsar?
    The inevitable conclusion is that less urban the centre, greater is the scope for such harassment
    I know of many Parsi women married outside regularly visit Iransha and other AtashBehrams.
    And what about unmarried Parsi women having easy virtues. Should she be allowed to enter? Apply your minds.

  • yas

    Life is full of changes – either change or perish. Thats the law of nature. This controversy will never attain a solution.
    Rival factions will be created who will waste endless amount of time in fire-fighting,name calling and accusing each sides.
    Love and religion are two aspects both contrary to each other – practice of not allowing female who marries outside is cruel and harsh. It has nothing to do with religion. Religion is a cover-up to protect the status-quo from change.

  • Anahita Makhania

    Type your comment here…
    Bravo Goolrukh! May your tribe increase.
    If Parsi men marrying non-Parsis can be allowed to practice the religion, why not the women? Why this discremination and double standards? Its high time the “custodians” of the religion change their thinking.

  • xerxes

    Getting Married outside the parsi community is destiny as marriages,birth & death are written in by the “ALMIGHTY”
    “Vidhi Na Lekh” as we all parsis know.If she committed any mistake by getting married outside then this leave that to ALMIGHTY ! If HE thinks she made mistake HE will punish her for that.But, who are we to judge this??? we are in the 21st century & this is Democracy where this is the land of the free. We should not judge peoples thoughts when it comes to religion.Don’t let the Law take care of it, leave it up to Ahura Mazda to take care of it.

  • All that Valsad Parsi Anjuman Trust has to do is to bring Vada Dastoor to testify in favour of the ban…and the case will be dismissed.

    I may sound very hash but as a woman i have a fair suggestion for Goolrokh if she happens to read this.
    No religion is worth so much of headache.
    Read the scriptures, do your homework before wasting your time and money. ALL religions are basically misogynist organizations run by men that outlines a subordinate, even subhuman role for women. Be bold and walk out of the pint size group that shows no respect for you or questions your integrity… Whose loss would it be? not yours.

  • K. Tamboli

    We parsis are proud of the fact that we still keep our promise what we had made to the then king J.D Rana, of no conversation of any other individual into our religion, because of these promises we are here, how on earth can we forget that..

    its this simple, this women a deformist & a convertist is a selfish human being that is jealous because she or her loved onces have lost their rights over parsi-pannu, so if she claims that she also loves the religion and has a right over it then why on earth did she have to marry outside the community..Did she not remember the religion then?
    Selfish then & Selfish now is what this womans real character sketch is.
    Its this simple u cant run away from the music of what deeds u have done, u have to and have to FACE IT..
    Rest I hope the decision comes fast, as anyone with an scrap of an idea about the legal system would know that it is most probable that it would be in favour of the Valsad trust, as it would then also be applicable all over the COUNTRY to all other such institutions concerning the same. So let it be over once & for all, let the losers get their final nail on their coffins… Amin….

  • Siloo Kapadia

    Voice to Reason: Parsi women having easy virtues? What about Parsi men having easy virtues? Should they also not be given admittance, if that is indeed what you are suggesting.

    Yas: I agree 100%. Change or become extinct.

    Anahita Makhania: You asked “If Parsi men marrying non-Parsis can be allowed to practice the religion, why not the women?” Answer is that our religion is very sexist, more so than what we want to believe.

    K. Tamboli: You got it wrong deekra. Our ancestors promised not to proselytize, not to trun others away that want to join.

  • piloo.

    @ Ms. JAENNIE,Ms. Siloo, Ms.Anahita, Ms Frazna& Mr.Nari/Mr.Guard/Mr.Unwalla, Anti _Dhongidox, Mr.Arzoo,Mr. Xerxes & Voice of Reason.
    After reading the opinions of all you ladies & gentlemen, I have following points specifically for you.
    1 (a) Can a Navjote become invalid/derecognized
    after marriage with a non-Parsi?
    1 (b) If yes, then is it not gender discrimination more
    so when some priests are married to non-Parsees?
    2) Somebody talks of wishes of the original maker of the
    Trust. Trust being the owners of the Fire Temple.
    Can they show a Clause in the Trust Deed of a single
    Fire Temple which forbids entry of a duly Navjoted
    person, (but married outside the community)even
    though that person has NOT given up our religion
    after marriage?
    3)Who can make additions or alterations in a Trust Deed without intervention of a Court of Law? The Original maker of the Trust had never foreseen the present type of
    situation.
    4) Can anybody say to the Hon Court that they are observing the mythical promises to Jadi Rana without any physical document?
    5) As per the Tenets, a Zoroastrian is not supposed to
    recite prayers in presence of a Non-Zoroastrian.How do
    priestly class recite prayers in their own homes in
    presence of Kaamwali Bai , a cook or a non Parsi
    daughter- in -law or ghar jamai?
    With my own eyes, I have seen an aged Kaamwali Bai sweeping staircase of a Fire Temple in Fort Mumbai with a broom. I will not reveal the name of the Agiary as I do not wish to place the helpless Panthaky in a spot.
    @ Anti Dhongi:
    The Times of India report says that flooring of the Atashbehram has sanctity? We are expected to believe that Flooring on which persons, good /bad walked has ‘sanctity.’ Those who speak like this assume that all Parsis have lost their sanity and will follow this nonsense like herd of sheeps.
    A stage is reached when a broken chair in a fire temple will not be allowed to be replaced because many devotees sat on it and offered prayers, so it got sanctity!

    The issue is absurd. When Anjuman Atashbehram Mumbai was renovated, even the brass rods on Windows of Sanctum sanctorum were replaced. Why was the issue of sanctity not raised at that time?
    Similarly, Iranshah has undergone frequent renovation including replacing of wall tiles. Its premises have been refurbished even recently. Why was the issue of sanctity not raised then?
    Just as bluff of AZA guys was exposed some time back, now it is the turn of this group to be exposed once for all. The earlier the community gets rid of such organizations imitating political parties the better. Future generation will blame us for being silent spectators and allowing this blackmail unopposed. As a community are we not providing free of charge comedy to rest of the country?
    @Farzana: Who is responsible for the ‘headache’ – not the Religion but the Dagli Pugree wearing Ayatoolahs, sorry Ervards who want to take credit for being antiquated and for ‘reviving’‘dawn’ of dark ages. And the effort of Valsad lady will not be a ‘waste of money’, it will be a pioneering effort which will be a landmark in the history of our Community.
    Placed for rational discussion and NOT for hurling uncouth language.

  • Farzana

    As per my information ARZ has a draft of agiary in mind which is going to be open to all. The work towards building this agiary is stalled due to shortage of funds. If there are Parsis/nonParsis here, who think its a worthy project, they should make small /big contribution towards this project rather than spend money and time filing litigations like this against Nazi nuts.

  • Voice of Reason.

    Siloo Kapadia,
    You mistook my point. I have pointed out a lacunae that as per current convention a Parsi woman of easy virtues can enter a Fire Temple because she continues to carry her maiden surname whereas a Parsi female legally married to a non- Parsi is being deprived of legitimate entry since her surname has changed. In other words, an upright female is adversely discriminated but there is no restriction on an immoral person as per interpretation of
    pseudo scholars of the religion. I have not suggested gender discrimination.
    Have I made myself clear?
    Besides, you have further said” Our ancestors promised not to proselytize”.
    =Promised to whom ? *#
    = Did we promise that there would be no inter-communal marriages?
    =Did we promise that we will ostracize our own members for marrying out of fold?

    *# Evidence in history of Jadi Rana is as solid as that of Jack & Jill and Humpty Dumpty. And if even such a person did exist, he was probably no better than current day Ram Sena Chief Muthalik doing his bit of ‘dadagiri’ in those times, taking advantage of the situation which our then elders faced and so such ‘promises’ CAN NOT be a tenets of our Religion.
    Let me not be misunderstood, I AM NOT AT ALL suggesting that we proselytize.

  • K. Tamboli

    @Sillo Kapadia,

    Aunty, Our ancestors promised not to allow any one from the locals to convert to our religion or not to encourage the same, not turning one away would indirectly mean to encourage that, that is the case, and the proof to it is all these thousands of years passing by and still we have been doing that! Its not without a reason.

    If we bear your idea then the day would not be far away when our youths too as a cause of mix breed would look like burnt bread..

    Aunty I was also sad to find out, you advising some girl here about being open to marry a non-parsi on some previous forum. Aunty we had to literally escape iran thousands of year back as we wanted to be safe from this virus of conversation & u advise a girl here not to hesitate to marry outside.

    Well I dont know about your personal history aunty, but to challenge religion for personal selfness is a sin.

    Just what a shame would it be if we would destroy all the sacrifices made by our ancestors, all kept for us from thousands of years would go in vain in seconds, just because of some immature deformist movement, NO WAY!!

  • K. Tamboli

    Here is one article, I wish a few mature girls and boys could read it, paste the following link onto your browsers address bar, http://tenets.zoroastrianism.com/nomixmarr33.html
    It would surly help you realize certain facts!
    Its written by Mr. Ranina, Mr.Ranina is an Advocate of the Supreme Court and a leading tax expert of India. He was also a Trustee of the Bombay Parsi Punchayat and is a part of several other Trusts.
    Here he clearly exposes the dum, irresponsible & dreadful excuses of self-centered people of “love is blind”.

  • abdul aziz

    faith is most important than followers. first of all gulruk is un-faithful to faith. dont confuce by suits against religiouse institutions. it is black mailing. .

  • ANTI – Dhongidox.

    Farzana,
    I differ, Nazis were not nuts, as you state. They were disciplined for a cause of eugenics. They did not treat womenfolk of their OWN race as second class.They did not change their decisions based on wealth or status of individuals. I fully agree with contents of Siloo Kapadia’s post of 26th .

  • Namesake

    It is sad to see parsi population decline in such a way, women responsible for such kind of an acts cannot be legible for the communities support, she should be dealt in fact in a more stricter manner, So sad that these things are even needed to be discussed, hope she gets her better left punishment soon after the courts verdict, The trust then can takes its actions on.

  • Ahsan Rafique Butt

    The lady must not be allowed to enter religious places. Almost all the religions have the same stance on this issue. In fact woman is like an agricultural field and the sows the seed. When we say “as you sow, so shall you reap” it means crop will be of the kind its seeds was. So when the lady married a Hindu she allowed a non parsi to sow his seeds in her fields so being a human she haded her body and soul over to a hindu and now must follow his faith and must not make their children double minded. I do not understand why woman folk is raising voice in her favor, listen religion is religion and it must not be changed to suit somebody’s needs.

  • Sheraz Bhesania

    Congratulations Goolrukh. I wish you all the very best and I know you will win the case and set new standards for Parsi Women. We are born into a family, into a religion and it is upto us what we want to do and how we want to lead our lives. We were born in a Democracy, and our religion is based on Good Thought, Good Words and Good Deeds. We can practice our religion wherever we want and there is nobody – no High Priests or Panthakis or Panchayat Trustees who can stop us from saying our prayers in an Agiari or at home. Practicing our religion is our right of freedom and Lord Zoroaster never said that nobody could practice what he preached. We just have to look in our Agiaris and Doongerwadi to see that the gentlemen working there are not pure parsees. I was amazed when I went last year into our agiaris and atashbehrams to see these men and was told “aunty they have been converted because no paris want to do the cleaning, deliver chasni or work at the doongerwadi. Pretty soon we will not be having any Khandias and all you pure bred Parsis will have to carry your own dear departed ones into the Towers and see for yourselves what lies within. So Mr. Tamboli and others please wake up and face the changes to come as we Women start standing up and fighting for our rights. Hopefully, Goolrukh has a good lawyer and an intellectual Judge who doesn’t believe in bribes and under the table exchange to pass a History making Judgement. All the Parsi women – married to parsis or non-parsis – are with you and will be praying for you. With Ahuramazda’s Blessings you will definitely win the rights to pray wherever you want.

  • a.rustomjee

    VOICE OF REASON is justified in doubting the credibility of
    Jadi Rana story.The date of authorship of Kisse Sanjan is recorded as 969 YZ 1599 A.D which is SEVERAL CENTURIES after the supposed events are assumed to have occurred. The account is in verse, in highly verbose manner like Arabic and Persian poetry. Only the conclusion is authored by a Parsi Priest by name Sanjana.So it qualifies to be as authentic and reliable as Jack & Jill and
    Humpty Dumpty characters as VOR as mentioned.
    We are unnecessarily creating controversies and blaming each other for Court Cases. Can we not be flexible?
    Are all workers in ALL FIRE TEMPLES PURE PARSI ZORASTRIANS?
    To-day,One weekly column in a Gujarati daily suggests that the community should call a cease fire to all controversies for next 5 years.But in reality it suggests one way concessions and t for what is rumored by some as due to ‘personal’ relations.

  • Farzana

    Anti dhongee, you are right, i would’ve called them Talibans, after all they too are men of inferior intelligence who “oppress” their women purposefully and willfully under the pretext of misogynist religious laws, and like abdul aziz, they too cannot back up their ridiculous ill-founded opinions, but than if FAKE Orthodox Parsis choose to act sick like Talibans, than what was the big deal about ‘saving’ Zoroastrianism, instead they could have cheerfully stayed back in Persia and peacefully converted to Islam.

    I also agree with Voice of Reason… If there was any agreement drafted between the Hindu King and Zoroastrians from Persia, i would like to see the blueprint. And for those who are cocksure of this said agreement, i would like them to explain presences of ‘DUBRA’ chasniwalas in Agiaries.

  • NEMESIS

    When I write on this portal, some call me outcast and ask me not to interfere. What about Abdul Aziz. Why no one has complained and asked him to mind his business? Or is it a an alias of a Parsi?

  • Daulat

    It is the duty of every true Zarathushtrian to obey the Divine Laws and to ensure that none of them are violated. consciously or otherwise. In this context, it would be appropriate to refer to a Stanza from the Ushtavaiti Gatha (as translated by Prof. Irach Taraporewala). in which our Prophet Zarathushtra said:-

    “Me has thou chosen to fulfil this task.
    Those who obey Thy Rules shall be Thy Friends,
    The rest I ever will regard Thy Foes.”

    The degeneration of the community, if at all there is, could be arrested by following the footsteps of our great forefathers who rarely broke communal ties in wedlock. We have to be grateful to them for having prevented our community from becoming extinct.

    As the number of Parsis decline, the greater is our responsibility to ensure that mixed marriages are avoided. If we do not follow the examples of our forefathers, our community will gradually disseminate in the vast ocean of humanity and all the sacrifices made by them to preserve our lofty religion and ancient heritage, will be set at naught.

    Conclusion

    While the declining numbers is a cause of concern, the one and only solution to this problem is for Parsis to have a change in attitude and to bring up their children as true Zarathushtrians, so that when they grow up, they marry within the community. The need for religious education is, therefore, paramount, both for the children and the present generation of parents.

    Parsis must take a conscious decision to have as many children as they can. The standard of living of our forefathers was never as high as it is today, given the fact that only the head of the family used to work at that time. Yet they had several children, even when they had to go through the most trying financial difficulties. While the modem-day Parsi is more materialistic than before, it has to be realised that children are the invaluable gifts of God, far more precious than all t.he wealth in the world!

    The key to the survival of the community is entirely in the hands of the present generation of Parsis. IF WE DECIDE TO MARRY WITHIN THE COMMUNITY and if each couple has at least two children, there will be a perceptible INCREASE in our numbers in the coming years.

    After all, if just about a thousand people who came to India in the 10th century could multiply into more than 100,000, the present population of Parsis could multiply into a million people.

    Apart from merely increasing in numbers, we need to motivate ourselves to ensure that the present generation of Zarathushtrians becomes more dedicated and religiously better informed, so that we are Zarathushtrians not only by birth but also by conviction.

  • ANTI – Dhongidox.

    Mr. A. R. Butt:
    I am leaving it for females of my community to offer replies to your beliefs but I can not resist informing you that
    Parsee men cannot get a Tallaq easily by uttering this word three times. The long wait in Courts ultimately compels them to become over-religious and that is the reason why Parsees have dime a dozen “full baked “ Scholars uttering whatever comes into their ‘holy’ minds. Our ‘Scholars’ can not reflect why their own marriage broke down but are ever ready to offer unsolicited advice.

  • Farzana

    Just to clarify, the word ‘TALIBAN’ used by me in my above comment, is an ADJECTIVE to describe a segment of the fundamentalist in society and it has no bearing with ISLAM as a religion.

  • K. Tamboli

    There is a new community coming up, its known as ugly breeders, here we have women from our own religion defying our very basic rules made by our great leaders thousands of years back then, they defy the very DEAD SURLYY MADE promises back then to the great king J.d Rana which are the reasons for our very existence, these women for e.g : They marry a outcast guy, does her dirty mixed breed dance, & blows onto the world her unneeded mixed breed NON-PARSI children. These women, of majority in fact, they realize their GRAVE mistakes, then they try to come back to the community with gory begging bowls and then as usual they are deservingly kicked off, because these thin skinned women are literally plucked out of our community & their small small filthy egos are tearfully damned, so that is the reason why they mainly turn to their useless and ineffective so-called revolts, but they forget that they have NO RIGHT to revolt once they are thrown out of our pure religion, NOR DO HER CHILDREN have the right….. say for e.g: A dum women from our religion marries a outcast guy, further on has a daughter, her daughter feels jealous of our religion and wishes to take advantage of it by the help of her mothers relations, then too she cannot do that, cause she is already a outcast herself.

    MORal: SO MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS or we will hav to teach ya how to do that…

    Daulat I Greatly agree with you & your well defined post, your post itself is a proof that parsis do not want other people to enter into their religion…. but sad to say, some humans are such illiterate class of rabbles that they dont even know very well and commonly know facts, such as facts supported about J.d rana from Gov of Guj, Our Great High Priest, various books, oh so many of them…. Not only that this breed is so jealous that they seem to suggest us that we should have stayed back in Iran & should have converted ourselves to Islam(GOD FORBID). They seem to suggest us this because they already are a thrown out trash & therefore themselves destroyed they also want us to be destroyed…. This can be suggested by an outcast only…
    They themselves now are in a low profiled religion so therefore they cannot bear to see us in high graded one….
    This sentiment is known as simplified Jealousy…
    I just ask them one question, if you are so against us then why don’t you get lost, out of our issues that is…
    Why should the community pay for the stupid women doing these mistakes, and their ridiculous daughters/sns following the same?? NO WAY….

    We pure Parsis(means the term which dull mix breed cannot understand), in order to save our religion left Iran as we were forced into conversations, in order to not do that we took up a huge journey which ended up in Sanjan, Till today we don’t allow conversation and keep our breed unique, and thus therefore we are still safe, we will follow the same forever… no matter as to any screwloosed wreckage may suggest anything rubbish as herself/hmslf..

  • NEMESIS,
    I can understand your feelings,
    The name of the game is, to use the terminology of one ‘divine’ orthodox ‘Different strokes for different folks.’ So grin and bear it.

  • To Daulat,
    Please do not mistake me. I am not being critical of you but if homilies like one you have delivered could solve the problems then surely such problems ought to have vanished by now. You may be aware that similar solutions as suggested by you with all good intentions were given by earlier generations too. But sadly, the problems of our “Kaum” have increased in last two decades rather than getting solved. When major surgery is the need of the hour, Band Aid is no substitute. Otherwise, we should stop grumbling when others willingly enter our faith in the West. Bickering is not serving any purpose. Let the community be divided once for all like Jews have split and then exist on the principle of live and let live.
    Agree?

  • Farzana

    Is it not odd that the great Parsee Othodox bandwagon is seeking and getting support from members of a religious denomination which wanted our own forefathers to convert and embrace their faith or face the sword, some 1300 years ago and these present day Bawa orthodox claim to be progeny of those who fought against forefathers of those who are now giving rickety support. They must be really making their forefathers proud , ney?

  • Farzana

    Quoting Tamboli ==> “MORal: SO MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS or we will hav to teach ya how to do that…”

    Will you please elaborate on this?

  • Farzana

    Quoting Daulat==>
    “Parsis must take a conscious decision to have as many children as they can. The standard of living of our forefathers was never as high as it is today, given the fact that only the head of the family used to work at that time. Yet they had several children, even when they had to go through the most trying financial difficulties. While the modem-day Parsi is more materialistic than before, it has to be realised that children are the invaluable gifts of God, far more precious than all t.he wealth in the world!”

    So Daulat, how many children do you have?

  • Farzana

    Quoting Daulat ==> “After all, if just about a thousand people who came to India in the 10th century …..”
    ————————————————

    “A thousand people came to India in the 10th Century”
    Interesting! can we see the proof of your statement?

  • Rémi

    Following blindly the pledge to JD Rana is not only put into question by reformists, but by some of the most orthodox too.
    As a proof, here are some quotes from an article by Ervad (Dr.) Hoshang J. Bhadha entitled “Diclosing the Wealth of Z tarikats”, to be found on http://www.tenets.parsizoroastrianism.com :
    “Those promises given by our forefathers to Jadi Rana was for abiding by the local customs and traditions of that time. Though anti-Zarathustri in its contents, they were accommodated and followed to meet the local demands. Now, the time has changed.”
    and
    “We deeply respect those promises but one must not forget that they were purely political and out of obligation and conveniences WHICH DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A PART OF OUR SACRED TARIKATS.”
    I am sure that few of you would consider HJ Bhadha as a reformist. The promises to JD Rana can be adjusted to fit our times, according to such an orthodox Parsi. There is not one single orthodox point of view, and so it would be hard to claim that there is one ultimate religious verdict on this political topic.

  • beroz

    Mr. Tamboli Saheb: From your style of writing I can feel that you are seasoned person with at least more than six decades of experience in the University of Life and your zest for retaining our cultural and religious roots has impressed me and my hostel friends a lot. It is difficult to gain knowledge from persons like you who are very few.
    I would have sent you an E Mail if I knew your E Mail address. As you know, life for Parsis is hard in absence of reservation for job opportunities for our community. Left with no alternative I have taken up employment in a Call Centre. Life is hectic. Life in a hostel is difficult. My family is conservative.
    I have developed a liking for a non Parsi colleague. I would not like myself to be denied entry into Fire Temples as I am devoted to my faith. So as a solution, we have decided to take a joint housing loan and live to gather. At the moment we have no plans for a family.
    What is your advice. I will remain a Parsi and at the same time would be able to participate in our Religious ceremonies.
    Instead of replying here can you please send your views about my idea on my email directly, which is berozm@gmail.com.
    Thnkin you in advance for your favour.

  • Remi, that was an awesome discovery:)

  • Daulat

    Farzana, my dear I have more then what you have. All by one zoroastrian father. You are very rude to ask such question but I am proud to answer them.
    Actually, I have four living and 1 Miscarriage. Also a proud Zoroastrian grandmother of 5 and looking forward to many more when my other two gets married, who are seeking a zoroastrian boy. I hope this answers your question.

  • daulat

    Farzana, in olden days zoroastrians had 9-13 children approximately. Multiply that by 990, less 10 who had no children or less. Then mutiply by the years that we came from Iran till today(may be less in this Stain age), you will have your answer, my dear.

  • Rajesh

    Hi Gulu, nice to see you fighting for what you believe is right and for your rights!.
    Doesn’t matter what others have to say!
    Wish you the best on your next hearings.
    Rajesh.

  • Daisy

    Marrying, Zarathushtri man or woman, to a Zarathushtri only is commanded in our religion in the Vendidad, to preserve the spiritual strength of the Aryan Mazdayasni religion, and the ethnic identity of the Zarathushtri Aryans. For the Zarathushtri, ethnic identity and religion are synonymous, as declared in the Vendidad by Ahura Mazda Himself – the Mazdayasni faith was revealed by Ahura to the Aryans under King Jamshed, thousands of years before Zarathushtra, and was meant only for the Aryans of Iran.

    As such, there was no “conversion”, because the Aryans of Iran were already Mazdayasnis when Zarathushtra came, and Zarathushtra was RE-REVEALING THE ORIGINAL FAITH, along with the AGUSTO VACHO – previously unheard of words of Ahura Mazda, such as the most powerful Ahunavar (Yatha Ahu Vairyo). The Fravardin Yasht also says that the Righteous of every nation in this world are present in heaven in the form of Glorious Fravarshis. Thus, the Righteous of every religion go to heaven, all religions are equal, and it is folly to convert. Conversion goes against the Master Law of Ereta (righteousness) itself, because God has given us birth in our respective religions, to adore Him in them, and not to mistrust His Judgment and rebel and go over to another faith. For, each faith leads ultimately to God. Thus, the Zarathushtris do not convert other people, but they rely on MARRIAGE WITHIN and INCREASED CHILD BIRTH to increase their numbers.

    We firmly believe that when the Saoshyant comes, the final spiritual battle between the forces of good and evil will commence, resulting in the utter destruction of evil. Ristakhiz, the ressurection of the dead will take place – the dead will rise, by the Will of Ahura Mazda. The world will be purged by molten metal, in which the righteous will wade as if through warm milk, and the evil will be scalded. The Final Judgment of all souls will commence, at the hands of Ahura Mazda the Judge (Davar), and all sinners punished, then forgiven, and humanity made immortal and free from hunger, thirst, poverty, old age, disease and death. The World will be made perfect once again, as it was before the onslaught of the evil one. Such is the Frashogad (Frasho-kereti), the Renovation, brought on by the Will of Ahura Mazda, the Frashogar.
    And all sinners punished

  • daulat

    piloo. 29 March 2010 at 7:41 am

    “Let the community be divided once for all like Jews have split and then exist on the principle of live and let live.”

    Piloo, if that’s how you feel, then why don’t you preach a new religion on earth and become a woman high priest and increase “a” religion which will not be “Zoroastrian nor Mazdayasni religion” but create something completely different and increase your clan of “a” religion and place of worship, where all your “soda lemon mixtures and kudhi khichrie’s can go and worship. But live and let live and let our Pure Atash burn for ever, as it has done for thousands of years. Amen!! Good Luck!

  • Farzana

    It was a simple question dear Daulat out of curiosity. Thanx for the reply.

  • Farzana

    Daulat my Grand father had two wives..and nine children… seven daughters and two sons, who were all not well educated as per the status today…not because my grand father lack the intentions to educate them but because he did not have means to educate them…Those times were different… Ppl lead simpler lives…free from vanity… in modesty… without much technology around. Today, times have changed….We are living in different times… with different outlook in life…We all have our individual priorities … individual ways of seeing things…right? like you think producing more children per family like they have amongst Muslims and Hindus will solve the problem of shrinking community!! … well… may be in quantity… maybe not in quality…

  • Farzana

    Daulat, my Grand father had two wives..and nine children- seven daughters and two sons, who were not well educated as per the status today…not because my grand father lack the intentions to educate them but because he did not have means to educate them…Those times were different… Ppl lead simpler lives…free from vanity… in modesty… without much technology around. Today, times have changed….We are living in different times… with different outlook in life…We all have our individual priorities … individual ways of seeing things…right? like you think producing more children per family like they have amongst Muslims and Hindus will solve the problem of shrinking community!! … well… may be in quantity… maybe not in quality…

  • piloo

    To Daulat:
    I do not lay claim to be a saint or a scholar, so no question of me becoming a priest. Many well wishers within the community are now tired and disgusted with the needless controversies which only divides the already tiny community.
    If you recall Parsi history, there used to be allegations and counter-allegations between Kadmis and Shenshai sects,Right.
    Do we have such conflicts now.?
    Similarly let those who want to claim being more pure have their institutions for worship and allot a few to those who are considered mixed breeds or inter married. Do you want the present impasse to become a perennial feature?
    Can you or I or for that purpose anybody reverse the things that have happened in the Society.?
    As for your sarcasm about Soda Lemon mixture, does it not exists now? Just by shutting one’s eyes, the problem does not get resolved or disappears.
    Is it not a fact that in large cities like Mumbai, inter faith married Parsi women attend all Religious ceremonies in Fire Temples.and this is NOT done surreptitiously, mind you.It is only in small hamlets that such issues are raised.
    Who perform menial tasks in our Religious institutions full time even in Mumbai? Certainly not ‘pure’ Parsis.Mostly such workers are of variety Soda lemon as you choose to refer them in contempt. This point has been made out innumerable times but conveniently overlooked by likes of you. WHY EVADE A FACT?
    I do not think that any sacrilege has been committed by me in suggesting an end to controversies. Have I ?
    Holy Fire remains unaffected by sight of its devotees and nothing on this earth can cause Holy fire to be defiled.Thats my firm belief,If yours is different then thats your view to which you may adhere and witness such messy arguments till eternity.

  • Roshtomy

    Hey please do not convert or let any other convert in, it destroys us, already week is our parsees numbers, please marry a parsee and born a parsee too.
    Be True to your religion, it will really help you in return, have faith in god, he does not want us to convert. This is his wish.

  • Rohinton

    Farzana,

    In your above comment , are you are saying that your grandfather who had two wives and nine children was more concerned with quantity rather than quality ??

  • Farzana

    Quoting Rohinton ==> “In your above comment , are you are saying that your grandfather who had two wives and nine children was more concerned with quantity rather than quality ??”
    ——————————————————————-

    As ive ALREADY explained, hundred years ago ppl had different mindsets, different ways of viewing things, a different lifestyle and different social and economic needs from what we experience today.

  • B.Patel

    Hello all, I found Miss Beroz’s question very apt.
    Unfortunately, I’m not an expert on the subject as many here are. It would be nice to read someone like Tamboli Uncle or Daulat Aunty replying to Miss Beroz’s query.

  • ANTI – Dhongidox.

    It is really creditable that more and more individuals are speaking out their minds and speaking out loudly for what they see with their eyes. Congrats Sheraz Bhesania. Now you may perhaps be at the receiving end from petty minds who will call you as indulging in ‘nit picking’ and being a part of the ‘coterie’ out to uproot the ‘roots’ whatever that means, by a handful of self seekers out to portray themselves as messengers exclusively appointed by the Lord to interpret the tenets of our Religion. Anybody questioning the credentials of these disciples of devils are branded as anti religion.
    I expect more and more of likes of Ms. Bhesania to shed their inhibitions and freely express their disapproval of religious mafia, who are holding our community to ransom and are squarely responsible for the present state of affairs.
    Now coming to the main object of this my post. My fellow Zoroastrians, I would be doing a great injustice to my faith which I hold sacred, if I did not draw your attention to two letters appearing in the Parsi Tari Arsi Column this Sunday of Mumbai Samachar. The ex CEO of B.P.P known for his plain speak has disclosed what was already being said by rumor mills over a period of time. Please make it a point to read Parsi Tari Arsi of this week to enable you to distinguish between rank opportunism, misuse of priestly discretion for material gains and Scholarship. Those who repeatedly emphasized on the Scholarship implied that quid pro quo and opportunism should be overlooked because of the Scholarship possessed by this person. Much has been said by self styled Scholars about Priestly class in our community being given scant respect by the laity. Those who complain in this regard should learn a practical principle of life that it is not just putting on a White Turban that qualifies for respect and reverence, for if one expects reverence to be showered, the same has to be earned and not demanded just because such a priest underwent hardship in a Madrasa during younger days. To use the words of this ‘great’ Scholar himself – a perpetual feature on this portal, one does not become a Gandhi by putting on a Gandhi cap.
    As for likes of blogger Daulat, all I can say is that just as we cannot purchase a dozen eggs for
    Rs 1/ as was possible in 1945, similarly just talking of past and basking in past glory is not going to resolve the present day issues. Is Daulat aware of the cost of education of a single child besides the cost of upbringing and satisfying the ever growing wants of kids in this era when MNC’s create ‘wants’ via Commercial ads. It is time to consider the conditions of the past as sweet dreams of the bygone era and be prepared to face current nightmarish problems with novel solutions rather than expecting that problems will resolve themselves on their own. Inaction is an attribute of lethargy and fear of facing truth.
    If required let there be a poll within the community on the issue of how many of us want to stick to ‘assurances’ mentioned in the parable of King Rana. That will expose how many sincerely believe this parable rather than congratulatory post of fictitious boarders on this blog
    It is time to ring out the old and ring in the new. Fellow Zoroastrians instead of praying to the almighty in Fire Temples to bestow you material comforts and to solve your mundane problems, pray before the Sacred, Holy Fires that our community is hereafter guided by men of foresight and wisdom and not by petty politicians who are out to make hay while the Sun shines.
    Posted with all sincere and honest intentions for the larger good of our humdins.
    Khshnotare Ahure Mazdao.

  • Mr.Tamboli, Many persons have asked some questions why our Parsees are not observing following promises to Jadi Rana like our women not draping saress any more, marriages taking place in mornings contrary to the promise. Remy has pointed out certain facts. If your parents have imbibed in you religious training then why do you hesitate to attend these questions.Are you under confident??
    Holding out veiled threats does not convert or convince somebody to blindly believe what you say without proof.No body is scared of such veiled threats. So give up your primary school teacher approach. Attacking parents of others who are rational and farsighted only shows what one’s OWN PARENTS have taught.
    Have you not read the many posts about mixed breed workers in Fire Temples ? In a place like Panchgani, it is possible to bully others but in Bombay your primary school master approach will make you look silly and all the more so after some time.
    It seems that this blog is read even by skullcaps known for taliban way of life and by educated members of other communities and they will mistakenly assume that all Parsees as retrogade as you.

  • Dr. Boman Patel

    Mr.Tamboli, Many persons have asked some questions why our Parsees are not observing following promises to Jadi Rana like our women not draping saress any more, marriages taking place in mornings contrary to the promise. Remy has pointed out certain facts. If your parents have imbibed in you religious training then why do you hesitate to attend these questions.Are you under confident??
    Holding out veiled threats does not convert or convince somebody to blindly believe what you say without proof.No body is scared of such veiled threats. So give up your primary school teacher approach.Attacking parents of others who are rational and farsighted only shows what one’s OWN PARENTS have taught.

    Have you not read the many posts about mixed breed workers in Fire Temples? In a place like Panchgani, it is possible to bully others but in Bombay your primary school master approach will make you look silly and all the more so after some time.
    It seems that this blog is read even by skullcaps known for taliban way of life and by educated members of other communities and they will mistakenly assume that all Parsees as retrogade as you.

  • Farzana

    Quoting Tamboli ==> “@farzi parsi, elaborate ?? Elaborate what, something that you did not want to understand or were AFRAID TO???”

    AFRAID of what? I dare you to spell it out.

    If you think you’re going scare us away with your stupid threats, you are badly mistaken.
    On the contrary, I’ve copied all your comments with veiled threats and i will not hesitate to use it against you, if and when needed.

  • Farzana

    Moderator. Once again your cautionary note not to make personal attacks and use of derogatory language has been thrown to winds by a boarder titling himself as K Tamboli. I trust you have ascertained genuineness of this boarder and his E Mail Id.

  • NEMESIS

    I am advised to ‘grin and bear it’ for being called an outcast. Fine, I will but no one body can stop me from my fundamental right to speak out the FACT that some earlier very active boarders have gone into hiding and have taken new identities so that:
    1) their Original identities as “Scholars and authorities” is not spolit. and
    2) With new identities they can take liberties to show their Bhindi Bazar and Kala Chowkie origins.
    If they think they are very clever, no?

  • Daisy

    Farzana
    There may be quantity of children in those days, which is today for our own benefit that we are good in numbers and quality of life style in olden days was excellent. Even with sukki daar & rottli, our forefathers were religiously powerful, bhunnar gunnar, happy and children were disciplined not with the cane but just by showing aankh no doro and khunkhar. I am what I am today with the education that my parents gave me. I am proud to be a thorough Zoroastrian. There is a saying “Vaaka valo tem vullo” “Tumaro. payo majboot hovo joiey, koi ni mugdur su key tumney tori nakhey”

  • daulat

    abdul aziz 28 March 2010 at 12:10 am #
    “faith is most important than followers. first of all gulruk is un-faithful to faith. dont confuce by suits against religiouse institutions. it is black mailing. ”

    Abdul, I salute you, even non Parsee respects our religion. Shame on you those who do not obey our laws of Ahura Mazda.

  • Rohinton

    Farzana,

    Remember that this very ” different mindset ” that was more concerned with ” quantity than quality ” eventually produced
    you !!!!

    Are you then suggesting that Parsis also concentrate more on ” quality ” rather than ” quantity ” ?????????????

    That is very enlightening, indeed !!!!

  • a.rustomjee

    AT 5.10 p.m. A MEESAGE IS POSTED BY ONE DAISY.
    THE SAME CONTENTS ARE REPEATED AT 5.24 BY A PERSON POSING AS DAULAT. THIS IS A CLEAR CASE OF TRYING TO IMPRESS BY “QUANTITY” .
    READERS ARE EXPECTED TO PUT HORSE BLINDS. OR IS IT THAT THE PERSON WHO POSTED THESE MESSAGES FORGOT HIS/HER ACTUAL NAME. THIS TYPE OF AILMENT SHOULD NOT AFFLICT A BHUNNAR GUNNAR.
    DADARJI PARDON SUCH BHUNNAR GUNNARS.

  • a.rustomjee

    .”Tumaro. payo majboot hovo joiey, koi ni mugdur su key tumney tori nakhe’
    REALLY SAW THE ‘FOUNDATION’ OF ‘BHUNNAR GUNNAR’
    WHO BREAKS LAWS OF AHURA MAZDA IS FOR ALL TO SEE!

  • Farhiz

    I have read all the comments; and as I write this today, I have even read Jame’s Headlines. The verdict is out, Gulrukh is lost; SO IS OUR DEMOCRACY. Gulrukh (or Neha, for that matter), I am pained to see your fate, as the depth to which our community is sinking.
    By the way, for all concerned, I am Ervad Farhiz Panthaky. BA in Avesta Pahlavi (that should significantly explain my knowledge of religion), MEd, and SET (Education), and persuing a PhD in Education. I am a teacher, and a Teacher Educator for over twenty years (just to explain, I am no dim wit).
    Is loving an individual from another sect a crime? Seriously, all those self appointed judges, this is for you. Think about this: YOU WOULD ACTUALLY PARDON A THIEF, OR EVEN A MURDERER; BUT NOT A LOVER… IF HE BE OF ANOTHER FAITH. It is ok, if I spend my life with a dog, but not so ok if it be with a human of another faith.
    What is religion? I have done a deep study of scriptures from across faiths, and the best definition of religion (of course, my choice) came from an example that I read in a jain philosophy. It said: It is the religion of water to quench one’s thirst. (This is strikingly impressive)
    Rethink, religion then is synonymous with ‘duty’, or its relates… It is religion of dog, to practice dogginess, it is religion of Hindus, to practice hinduism, It is religion of Zoroastrianism. It is religion of HUMANS TO PRACTICE HUMANITY. IT IS RELIGION OF INDIANS TO PRACTICE INDIANNESS….
    Now, at a time, I am so many: Zoroastrian, Indian, Maharashtrian, Human! Which one should I practice, and preach? ALL, of course. 
    But at times, one conflicts the other. Atsuch times, I need to prioritise. ME, AS A HUMAN, AND AN INDIAN, WILL FAR BEAT, ME AS A ZOROASTRIAN, AND A MAHARASHTRIAN, AND A LECTURER, AND A PRINCIPAL….. BUT, THEN OF COURSE, THIS IS MY CHOICE, you may choose your own.
    Our zoroastrianism affords freedom of choice.
    I encourage my fellow Zoroastrians to make ‘right’ choice. Because,as Stephon Covey would put it: ‘in these choices, lie your destiny’ (8th Habit)

  • Farhiz

    I have read all the comments; and as I write this today, I have even read Jame’s Headlines. The verdict is out, Gulrukh is lost; SO IS OUR DEMOCRACY. Gulrukh (or Neha, for that matter), I am pained to see your fate, as the depth to which our community is sinking.
    By the way, for all concerned, I am Ervad Farhiz Panthaky. BA in Avesta Pahlavi (that should significantly explain my knowledge of religion), MEd, and SET (Education), and persuing a PhD in Education. I am a teacher, and a Teacher Educator for over twenty years (just to explain, I am no dim wit).
    Is loving an individual from another sect a crime? Seriously, all those self appointed judges, this is for you. Think about this: YOU WOULD ACTUALLY PARDON A THIEF, OR EVEN A MURDERER; BUT NOT A LOVER… IF HE BE OF ANOTHER FAITH. It is ok, if I spend my life with a dog, but not so ok if it be with a human of another faith.
    What is religion? I have done a deep study of scriptures from across faiths, and the best definition of religion (of course, my choice) came from an example that I read in a jain philosophy. It said: It is the religion of water to quench one’s thirst. (This is strikingly impressive)
    Rethink, religion then is synonymous with ‘duty’, or its relates… It is religion of dog, to practice dogginess, it is religion of Hindus, to practice hinduism, It is religion of Zoroastrianism. It is religion of HUMANS TO PRACTICE HUMANITY. IT IS RELIGION OF INDIANS TO PRACTICE INDIANNESS….
    Now, at a time, I am so many: Zoroastrian, Indian, Maharashtrian, Human! Which one should I practice, and preach? ALL, of course. 
    But at times, one conflicts the other. Atsuch times, I need to prioritise. ME, AS A HUMAN, AND AN INDIAN, WILL FAR BEAT, ME AS A ZOROASTRIAN, AND A MAHARASHTRIAN, AND A LECTURER, AND A PRINCIPAL….. BUT, THEN OF COURSE, THIS IS MY CHOICE, you may choose your own.
    Our zoroastrianism affords freedom of choice.
    I encourage my fellow Zoroastrians to make ‘right’ choice. Because,as Stephon Covey would put it: ‘in these choices, lie your destiny’ (8th Habit)

  • xyz

    Please teach religion to 7 trustees of BPP. They are just wasting money in frivolous court cases. They do not have any other work to do except come to office on every wednesday and chit-chat and eat and do time pass.

  • xyz

    Please teach religion to 7 trustees of BPP. They are just wasting money in frivolous court cases. They do not have any other work to do except come to office on every wednesday and chit-chat and eat and do time pass.

  • Darius Khambatta

    Very nice Farhiz Panthaky. Thats the first sensible Ervad ive heard (rather read) talking in my entire life.

  • Darius Khambatta

    Very nice Farhiz Panthaky. Thats the first sensible Ervad ive heard (rather read) talking in my entire life.

  • RATHESTAR.

    I AM PROUD OF SUCH PRIESTS WHO BOLDLY SHARE THEIR LEARNING UNLIKE HYPOCRITES WHO TOE THE LINE DICTATED BY A FAKE MAGI.

  • RATHESTAR.

    I AM PROUD OF SUCH PRIESTS WHO BOLDLY SHARE THEIR LEARNING UNLIKE HYPOCRITES WHO TOE THE LINE DICTATED BY A FAKE MAGI.

  • RATHESTAR.

    DAULAT.-And  in those “GOOD OLD DAYS’ BPP did not start a fertility clinic because there was no need for it. Is it not ‘breaking time tested Tradition’ of not having Fertility Clinics.?
     What about artificial insemination. Is it ‘preserving Boonak Pasbani”? Much is public domain of Parsee Couple having adopted children from orphanage, one boy and another girl..Both Children from two different biological non Parsee parents and their Navjotes were performed some 16 years or so ago.Both the youngsters frequent a certain Dadar Fire Temple. So it is better for persons like you and another wiseacre calling himself “I LOVE ….’ to keep quiet or you both will end up saying “I LOVE BEING RIDICULED’

  • RATHESTAR.

    DAULAT.-And  in those “GOOD OLD DAYS’ BPP did not start a fertility clinic because there was no need for it. Is it not ‘breaking time tested Tradition’ of not having Fertility Clinics.?
     What about artificial insemination. Is it ‘preserving Boonak Pasbani”? Much is public domain of Parsee Couple having adopted children from orphanage, one boy and another girl..Both Children from two different biological non Parsee parents and their Navjotes were performed some 16 years or so ago.Both the youngsters frequent a certain Dadar Fire Temple. So it is better for persons like you and another wiseacre calling himself “I LOVE ….’ to keep quiet or you both will end up saying “I LOVE BEING RIDICULED’

  • Piloomani

    Mrs.Neha Gupta (alias Mrs.Goolrukh Gupta) has shamed our great and submissive community by going to the Court for gaining undue publicity.  She has not only changed her name but also by marrying according to Hindu Traditions converted to Hinduisum.  At present her parents are very much alive than why has she gone to this extent and stooped to such a low level.  Many prayers of the departed (when her parents die) can even be conducted at her residence if her Hindu family (husband’s) allows or even at a private hall.  This has been done even in the case of Mr.J.R.D.Tata.  She is supported by the reformist group, the rabid Parsi feminists groups, pseudo-securalists and her husband who is a Hindu.  Her main motive does not appear to be prayers for the departed (parents when they die) but some other ulterior motive.  It is this kind of attitude of most of the  Parsi ladies and well as support from reformist and foolish Parsi men which has led to the total downfall of this community even though Lord Ahuramadza had endowed our community with enough resources for the well being and flourishment of our community.  Looking at the above and the support she is getting from many Parsis, I believe the sacrifices of our forefathers have gone down the drain.  Perhaps it is time for the Parsis community to convert enmass to Shia Islam which is now followed by 99% of Iranians, even Qataris and Arabs of Iraq who were previously Zoroastrains.  Atleast then we can have some community sense instead of the Parsi community which is like a rudderless mob.

  • Piloomani

    Mrs.Neha Gupta (alias Mrs.Goolrukh Gupta) has shamed our great and submissive community by going to the Court for gaining undue publicity.  She has not only changed her name but also by marrying according to Hindu Traditions converted to Hinduisum.  At present her parents are very much alive than why has she gone to this extent and stooped to such a low level.  Many prayers of the departed (when her parents die) can even be conducted at her residence if her Hindu family (husband’s) allows or even at a private hall.  This has been done even in the case of Mr.J.R.D.Tata.  She is supported by the reformist group, the rabid Parsi feminists groups, pseudo-securalists and her husband who is a Hindu.  Her main motive does not appear to be prayers for the departed (parents when they die) but some other ulterior motive.  It is this kind of attitude of most of the  Parsi ladies and well as support from reformist and foolish Parsi men which has led to the total downfall of this community even though Lord Ahuramadza had endowed our community with enough resources for the well being and flourishment of our community.  Looking at the above and the support she is getting from many Parsis, I believe the sacrifices of our forefathers have gone down the drain.  Perhaps it is time for the Parsis community to convert enmass to Shia Islam which is now followed by 99% of Iranians, even Qataris and Arabs of Iraq who were previously Zoroastrains.  Atleast then we can have some community sense instead of the Parsi community which is like a rudderless mob.

  • RATHESTAR.

    Piloomani. For your information, Uthamna of late JRD was conducted at Bombay Doongerwadi and was attended by former Finance Minister and current Prime Minister of India.. Please verify your facts before making a statement that prayers for this departed sould were held in a private Hall.

  • RATHESTAR.

    Piloomani. For your information, Uthamna of late JRD was conducted at Bombay Doongerwadi and was attended by former Finance Minister and current Prime Minister of India.. Please verify your facts before making a statement that prayers for this departed sould were held in a private Hall.

  • Piloomani

    RATHESTAR.  Your facts are totally wrong.  Prayers for Mr.J.R.D.Tata were held at Bombay House Auditorium conducted by Parsi Priests and attended by all community members.  I was employed with the Tatas at that time.  As a lady, I was even aware that during the Prayer service some ladies who were in periods had attended the ceremonies  as in their religion they do not observe it.  Also, please note that prayers for Mr..Naval Tata were held at Doongerwadi.  Also, Mr..J.R.D.Tata was buried in his family’s cemetery(Tata family cemetry) in France.  Mr.J.R.D.Tata had died in Geneva and his body flown to Paris for burial.  Please do not misguide.  I as an employee of Tata had the correct information.

  • Piloomani

    RATHESTAR.  Your facts are totally wrong.  Prayers for Mr.J.R.D.Tata were held at Bombay House Auditorium conducted by Parsi Priests and attended by all community members.  I was employed with the Tatas at that time.  As a lady, I was even aware that during the Prayer service some ladies who were in periods had attended the ceremonies  as in their religion they do not observe it.  Also, please note that prayers for Mr..Naval Tata were held at Doongerwadi.  Also, Mr..J.R.D.Tata was buried in his family’s cemetery(Tata family cemetry) in France.  Mr.J.R.D.Tata had died in Geneva and his body flown to Paris for burial.  Please do not misguide.  I as an employee of Tata had the correct information.

  • RATHESTAR.

    Piloomani,
    You are free to ascertain facts from Er. Rohinton Peer, Panthaky of Dadysett Agiari at Fort before saying that my facts are totally wrong. Late father of Er. Royinton Peer lost his Panthakyship of Tata Agaiary because he refused to buckle under pressure. For your benefit I am posting a link for you to read ”
    http://www.indiarightsonline.com/Sabrang/india1.nsf/38b852a8345861dd65256a980059289d/ad954df95a845567e5256b2c004515c6/$FILE/bac04002.pdf. READ FOR YOURSELF
    Just because you say you were employed with Tata Group does not mean that whatever you know is all encompassing. After reading the link, I leave it for you to decide whether I misguided or you as an emplyee of Tatas did not know historical facts.

  • RATHESTAR.

    Piloomani,
    You are free to ascertain facts from Er. Rohinton Peer, Panthaky of Dadysett Agiari at Fort before saying that my facts are totally wrong. Late father of Er. Royinton Peer lost his Panthakyship of Tata Agaiary because he refused to buckle under pressure. For your benefit I am posting a link for you to read ”
    http://www.indiarightsonline.com/Sabrang/india1.nsf/38b852a8345861dd65256a980059289d/ad954df95a845567e5256b2c004515c6/$FILE/bac04002.pdf. READ FOR YOURSELF
    Just because you say you were employed with Tata Group does not mean that whatever you know is all encompassing. After reading the link, I leave it for you to decide whether I misguided or you as an emplyee of Tatas did not know historical facts.

  • RATHESTAR.

    READ http://www.indiarightsonline.com/Sabrang/india1.nsf/38b852a8345861dd65256a980059289d/ad954df95a845567e5256b2c004515c6/$FILE/bac04002.pdf before saying that a Tata employee you know better .
    Enquire from Er Royinon Peer of Daysett Agiary why his father had to relinquish Panthakyship of Tata Agiary before saying to somebody not to ‘misguide’.

  • RATHESTAR.

    READ http://www.indiarightsonline.com/Sabrang/india1.nsf/38b852a8345861dd65256a980059289d/ad954df95a845567e5256b2c004515c6/$FILE/bac04002.pdf before saying that a Tata employee you know better .
    Enquire from Er Royinon Peer of Daysett Agiary why his father had to relinquish Panthakyship of Tata Agiary before saying to somebody not to ‘misguide’.

  • Rashna

    Ms. Piloomani, It is just laughable when you say that you even knew that some ladies attending Prayer Service for JRD were in their periods. How did you know?
    As for your comment on Rathestar’s post, I may just add that I recall having seen  in Newspaper a photo of the then Union Finance Minister placing a garland on the portrait of  JRD, placed at Doongerwadi Bunglee and  his Uthamna was indeed conducted at Doongerwadi, duly ‘approved’ by one of the High Priest. So check you facts before  attempting todistort history.

  • Rashna

    Ms. Piloomani, It is just laughable when you say that you even knew that some ladies attending Prayer Service for JRD were in their periods. How did you know?
    As for your comment on Rathestar’s post, I may just add that I recall having seen  in Newspaper a photo of the then Union Finance Minister placing a garland on the portrait of  JRD, placed at Doongerwadi Bunglee and  his Uthamna was indeed conducted at Doongerwadi, duly ‘approved’ by one of the High Priest. So check you facts before  attempting todistort history.

  • phiroze

    I would rather go with what Piloomani who was working with the Tatas at that time says rather than some newspaper report. 

  • phiroze

    I would rather go with what Piloomani who was working with the Tatas at that time says rather than some newspaper report. 

  • phiroze

    Late Ervad Rustonji and Jalamai Panthaky would be sadden by your above post Farhiz.

  • phiroze

    Late Ervad Rustonji and Jalamai Panthaky would be sadden by your above post Farhiz.

  • Piloomani

    RATHESTAR,
    I as an employee of Tatas had attended the prayers alongwith my Parsi and non-Parsi colleagues.  It was held in Bombay House Auditorium.  I need not go to any link when we were present at the so called prayers..  What I am most surprised is your utter denial that such prayers were held at the above mentioned place.  I see no harm if the prayers were held.  Even in old days prayers were held for departed not necessarily in Agiaries then why unnecessarily create a controversy.  Also, the Tatas have always broken from tradition and have shown scant respect for our learned dasturs and they have mainly supported the non-Parsis, so if the prayers were held what is wrong and Why Deny.  It is possible that additional prayers were held at Doongerwadi also.  BUT CERTAIN PRAYERS WITH PARSI PRIESTS WERE ATTENDED BY NON PARSIS AND EVEN NON PARSIS LADIES IN PERIODS HAD ATTENDED THE PRAYERS.  THE LADIES WERE NOT AT FAULT BECAUSE IN THEIR RELIGION THEY DO NOT OBSERVE ANY SUCH CUSTOMS OR TRADITIONS.  This will always happen once the non-Parsis attend our prayers.  Otherwise, for their sake we should forgo most of our traditions and customs, ie. taking bath, doing Kusti, ladies during periods do not attend prayer ceremonies anywhere, etc.
     

  • Piloomani

    RATHESTAR,
    I as an employee of Tatas had attended the prayers alongwith my Parsi and non-Parsi colleagues.  It was held in Bombay House Auditorium.  I need not go to any link when we were present at the so called prayers..  What I am most surprised is your utter denial that such prayers were held at the above mentioned place.  I see no harm if the prayers were held.  Even in old days prayers were held for departed not necessarily in Agiaries then why unnecessarily create a controversy.  Also, the Tatas have always broken from tradition and have shown scant respect for our learned dasturs and they have mainly supported the non-Parsis, so if the prayers were held what is wrong and Why Deny.  It is possible that additional prayers were held at Doongerwadi also.  BUT CERTAIN PRAYERS WITH PARSI PRIESTS WERE ATTENDED BY NON PARSIS AND EVEN NON PARSIS LADIES IN PERIODS HAD ATTENDED THE PRAYERS.  THE LADIES WERE NOT AT FAULT BECAUSE IN THEIR RELIGION THEY DO NOT OBSERVE ANY SUCH CUSTOMS OR TRADITIONS.  This will always happen once the non-Parsis attend our prayers.  Otherwise, for their sake we should forgo most of our traditions and customs, ie. taking bath, doing Kusti, ladies during periods do not attend prayer ceremonies anywhere, etc.
     

  • Piloomani

    RATHESTAR
    Also, the prayers were held at around 3.45 pm and there were many priests who were paid handsomely.  I cannot recollect the exact date since it is long time and a trifle matter.
    Nevertheless, the prayers were conducted in front of a cosmopolitan congregation.  It is possible that these were ADDITIONAL prayers he being a very rich man for his non-Parsi staff to attend.  Also, I am not contesting your claim of prayers being held at Doongerwadi.  I am only claiming that prayers for the departed are regularly held even outside Doongerwadi and in private places.

  • Piloomani

    RATHESTAR
    Also, the prayers were held at around 3.45 pm and there were many priests who were paid handsomely.  I cannot recollect the exact date since it is long time and a trifle matter.
    Nevertheless, the prayers were conducted in front of a cosmopolitan congregation.  It is possible that these were ADDITIONAL prayers he being a very rich man for his non-Parsi staff to attend.  Also, I am not contesting your claim of prayers being held at Doongerwadi.  I am only claiming that prayers for the departed are regularly held even outside Doongerwadi and in private places.

  • RATHESTAR.

    Piloomani.
    Who wrote these words “RATHESTAR.  Your facts are totally wrong.  Prayers for Mr.J.R.D.Tata were held at Bombay House Auditorium conducted by Parsi Priests and attended by all community members.  I was employed with the Tatas at that time. “?
     And your sentence “Please do not misguide.  I as an employee of Tata had the correct information” lies in tatters that you refuse to check authentic rebuttal of your false and bloated ego.
    Why do you refuse to see the Link. Is it not because your pompous claim as an authority being A TATA EMPLOYEE lies exposed by the Link? 
     No wonder that Tatas these days employ  more non Parsees because of persons who claim to be in their service do not know the correct facts.

  • RATHESTAR.

    Piloomani.
    Who wrote these words “RATHESTAR.  Your facts are totally wrong.  Prayers for Mr.J.R.D.Tata were held at Bombay House Auditorium conducted by Parsi Priests and attended by all community members.  I was employed with the Tatas at that time. “?
     And your sentence “Please do not misguide.  I as an employee of Tata had the correct information” lies in tatters that you refuse to check authentic rebuttal of your false and bloated ego.
    Why do you refuse to see the Link. Is it not because your pompous claim as an authority being A TATA EMPLOYEE lies exposed by the Link? 
     No wonder that Tatas these days employ  more non Parsees because of persons who claim to be in their service do not know the correct facts.

  • RATHESTAR.

    You Pillomani, if you never intended to contest my  claim of Uthamna of JRD helsd Doongerwadi then how do you justify your earlier following sentences:
    1)”RATHESTAR.  Your facts are totally wrong. ”
    2)”Please do not misguide.  I as an employee of Tata had the correct information.’
    Who  wanted to misguide?
    @Phiroze: Refer to o Jame Weekly of that date? If not does it mean that you do not trust your own mouthpiece?

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    Reply

  • RATHESTAR.

    You Pillomani, if you never intended to contest my  claim of Uthamna of JRD helsd Doongerwadi then how do you justify your earlier following sentences:
    1)”RATHESTAR.  Your facts are totally wrong. ”
    2)”Please do not misguide.  I as an employee of Tata had the correct information.’
    Who  wanted to misguide?
    @Phiroze: Refer to o Jame Weekly of that date? If not does it mean that you do not trust your own mouthpiece?

    Like
    Reply

  • RATHESTAR.

    Thank you Rashna for exposing falsehood.

  • RATHESTAR.

    Thank you Rashna for exposing falsehood.

  • RATHESTAR.

    So Phiroze, You may not believe a news paper  but will you also not believe another Ervard from your own profession viz Er. R. P.Peer about what injustice was done to his late noble father?

  • RATHESTAR.

    So Phiroze, You may not believe a news paper  but will you also not believe another Ervard from your own profession viz Er. R. P.Peer about what injustice was done to his late noble father?

  • Barak Aga

    It is indeed a fitting tribute to J. R. D. Tata (son of a French mother), that Cyrus Mistry (married to a Muslim lady) has been selected to be at the helm of the Tata Empire.
    None of these self-proclaimed “pure breeds” born out of consanguineous, endogamous and incestuous unions can ever aspire to attain the heights and gain the respect that J. R. D. Tata and Cyrus Mistry have gained.

  • Barak Aga

    It is indeed a fitting tribute to J. R. D. Tata (son of a French mother), that Cyrus Mistry (married to a Muslim lady) has been selected to be at the helm of the Tata Empire.
    None of these self-proclaimed “pure breeds” born out of consanguineous, endogamous and incestuous unions can ever aspire to attain the heights and gain the respect that J. R. D. Tata and Cyrus Mistry have gained.

  • Rashna

    Piloomani,
    Nobody is interested in knowing the time (3.45 pm) when  the ceremony was held. That (timing)does that establish that what you first stated, rather denied that uthamna was performed at Doonderwadi. You were not only wrong completely, though I am not saying intentionally but the tone and tenor of your claim (I WAS A TATA EMPLOYEE) bordered on outright false arrogance.

  • Rashna

    Piloomani,
    Nobody is interested in knowing the time (3.45 pm) when  the ceremony was held. That (timing)does that establish that what you first stated, rather denied that uthamna was performed at Doonderwadi. You were not only wrong completely, though I am not saying intentionally but the tone and tenor of your claim (I WAS A TATA EMPLOYEE) bordered on outright false arrogance.

  • Rashna

    I strongly suspect  this Piloomani is a shadow(imaginary character) of this phiroze who is scared to put his name on certain comments.

  • Rashna

    I strongly suspect  this Piloomani is a shadow(imaginary character) of this phiroze who is scared to put his name on certain comments.

  • Er.Adarbahman

    In any caee it is BOLTI BANDH both of piloomani/phiroze.Good job, Rashna and of course Rathestar. Keep it up.These persons want to pen cock and bull stories as history for future.

  • Er.Adarbahman

    In any caee it is BOLTI BANDH both of piloomani/phiroze.Good job, Rashna and of course Rathestar. Keep it up.These persons want to pen cock and bull stories as history for future.

  • Piloomani

     Barak Aga

    Please note that Mr.J.R.D.Tata achieved his position as he was born in the rich Tata Family.  He was born with a golden spoon.  There are a lot of industrialists, emirs, kings etc who inherit their positions.  There is nothing great about that.  He was born lucky.  He had never gone through the rigours of lower middle class.  He gained respect only because he was rich  and born in Tata family.  What heights are you talking about.  The Parsi priests had always to buckle under the Tatas money power.

    Compare him to Mr. Bill Gates (Microsoft) , Mr. Dhirubhai Ambani (Reliance) , Mr. Narayanan Murthy (Infoys), Mr.Steve Jobs who achieved their greateness from scratch.  Neither were they Parsis nor were the offsprings of mixed breeds nor did they have golden spoons.

    Unfortunately, the Parsis of today only worship money power.  Hence, Mr.J.R.D.Tata is taken as a role model.

    The Parsis should find a role model who has started from scratch and not somebody who has had an inheritance.

  • Piloomani

     Barak Aga

    Please note that Mr.J.R.D.Tata achieved his position as he was born in the rich Tata Family.  He was born with a golden spoon.  There are a lot of industrialists, emirs, kings etc who inherit their positions.  There is nothing great about that.  He was born lucky.  He had never gone through the rigours of lower middle class.  He gained respect only because he was rich  and born in Tata family.  What heights are you talking about.  The Parsi priests had always to buckle under the Tatas money power.

    Compare him to Mr. Bill Gates (Microsoft) , Mr. Dhirubhai Ambani (Reliance) , Mr. Narayanan Murthy (Infoys), Mr.Steve Jobs who achieved their greateness from scratch.  Neither were they Parsis nor were the offsprings of mixed breeds nor did they have golden spoons.

    Unfortunately, the Parsis of today only worship money power.  Hence, Mr.J.R.D.Tata is taken as a role model.

    The Parsis should find a role model who has started from scratch and not somebody who has had an inheritance.

  • kashmira lobo

    Congratulations Goolrukh. I wish you all the very best and I know you will win the case and set new standards for Parsi Women. We are born into a family, into a religion and it is upto us what we want to do and how we want to lead our lives. We were born in a Democracy, and our religion is based on Good Thought, Good Words and Good Deeds. We can practice our religion wherever we want and there is nobody – no High Priests or Panthakis or Panchayat Trustees who can stop us from saying our prayers in an Agiari or at home. Practicing our religion is our right of freedom and Lord Zoroaster never said that nobody could practice what he preached. We just have to look in our Agiaris and Doongerwadi to see that the gentlemen working there are not pure parsees. I was amazed when I went last year into our agiaris and atashbehrams to see these men and was told “aunty they have been converted because no paris want to do the cleaning, deliver chasni or work at the doongerwadi. Pretty soon we will not be having any Khandias and all you pure bred Parsis will have to carry your own dear departed ones into the Towers and see for yourselves what lies within. All the Parsi women – married to parsis or non-parsis – are with you and will be praying for you. With Ahuramazda’s Blessings you will definitely win the rights to pray wherever you want. This time dear Goolrukh we (i.e. all parsi Girls married to other caste but not converted their religion) will be able to go to Agiary. I was illuminated by my own family after 12 yrs of marriage as a parsi daughter in law who was suppose to be daughter in law and her family put wrong alligations as well as they made my dear father against me by making me outcaste only because i was married to a person for another religion & they didnt allow me to see my father’s last face by not informing about his death & they even performed his last rights without me. Now they are in trouble & they make their lawyers to call me for compromise which i have denied & planning to move futher as i & my husband believe in good deeds reaped earlier will help us in future.
    Goolrukh if you need any help please contact me 9029520236 or email kashmiralobo@yahoo.co.in why dont we form a group of all parsi girls married outcaste and stand united. i would like to talk to you personally so please send me your contact number.

    ALL THE BEST
    WE WILL WIN
    REGARDS
    KASHMIRA LOBO