Protest Against Jame Jamshed

The below is a copy of the letter to the Editor of Jame Jamshed.

This letter is written by good friend Ervad Marzban J Hathiram, who is the head priest of the Behram Baug Agiary and the editor of Frashogard.com

Marzban writes.

Hi Shernaaz,

I was shocked and disgusted to read yesterday’s edition of the Jame. While Jame has upset many heavily laden Sunday stomachs in the past, yesterday’s copy provoked a violent and virulent reaction which even antacids could not rectify.

As a well wisher of Jame I am at a total loss to understand the necessity of publishing the whole page trash. Are the resources of Jame in such precarious condition that you have to stoop to these levels? Or is it that there are powers above you who dictate what should go in the paper and what should not?

As a contributor, I am appalled to find my photograph in the same edition where this kind of rubbishy yellow journalism was practiced. Even the British tabloids would be proud of you!

As a priest, I am enraged that a totally anti-religious, vicious advertisement was allowed to be published in a community newspaper. Do perpetrators of crime publish advertisements after committing their dastardly acts? And do newspapers allow such glorification of an obvious evil? I mean, where are your ethics? On one page you have letters of the High Priests against this – and facing that you have such an advertisement? Was that just a coincidence or a sheer stroke of genius?

I also know for sure that a learned article by a close friend who really toiled to get that article to you in time was knocked off so that this whole page ad could be carried. And you did not even have the courtesy to let him know that the article was not being carried, whereas before you were sending frantic SMSs to get the article to you.

A community newspaper which has such a hallowed tradition, going back more than a hundred years, cannot allow such short sighted behaviour. You are encouraging the demise of our community by publishing such advertisements. You are shaking the faith of thousands of Parsis whose impressionable minds have been corrupted by such insidious acts. By doing so you are taking on unbearable levels of sin on your own soul! Do not let the pulls and pressures of your job compel you to take a course which WILL impact your spiritual progress for far more than a lifetime.

To say that I am very disappointed would be a great understatement. I am really unable to understand why you have allowed yourself to be used in this manner.

Ervad Marzban J. Hathiram
www.frashogard.com

  • Jeannie Antia

    Excuse me, Sir, what are you talking about? Do I understand right, your ego got hurt?

    But why should we all know about this – what sense does it make to tell the whole community reading Parsi Khaber?

    Jeannie Antia

  • Burjor Bharucha

    Dear Shernaaz,

    You would recollect our meeting at the Wapiz prize distribution function held at Cama Baug last month when I congratulated you for your being appointed as the Chief Editor of the Jame Jamshed. If you remember, I also told you your appointment of this now prestigious and the oldest publication has come to the entire community as a great relief and as a breath of fresh air. What a change from the departed predecessor of yours, who the whole commnity hailed as good riddence of bad rubbish. Rubbish is what Rusi Dhondy used to publish week in and week out. He had surely brought down the good image of Jame. The community bade him goodbye with the words ‘Rusi, you will not be missed’. Very true Rusi will not be missed ever, and ofcourse for very good obvious reasons.
    Shernaaz, the last Jame for the first time since your take over came as a bit of a rude shock to me and most of the commnity members. I personally could not believe my eyes when I read the horrenduous advertisement printed very prominently, of the irreligious navjote of Zinatra and Tushar D’souza whose father is a christian Mr. Savio D’souza and as per the customs and traditions of our sacred religion the children of a parsi woman married to a non parsi cease to be a Parsi and therefore cannot be initiated into the zoroastrian faith.
    This one advertisement has shocked the community and shaken the trust for a person who they looked upto as your appointment brought a lot of comfort and feel good factor as you were seen as the savior of the religion from the hands of the liberal destroyers.
    We do realize your compulsions for being unbiased and also to be responsible for the profitability of the publication but
    certainly you cannot cross the line either way and let down your own people who would stand by you under all odd circumstances.
    I sincerely hope you would realize the blunder which has been created by Jame and would expect you to take prompt steps to rectify the damage done so that the community at large would be re-assured. Your prompt and effective action would once again reassure us that Jame after all is still in the safe hands and is not vulnerable as was the case during the predecessor. Good luck and God bless.

    Burjor Bharucha.

  • Rashna_M

    Si,
    People are more shocked and disgusted to read Free Press Journal Advertisement page more or less every fortnight. And thousands are indeed disgusted to read community’s Soap Opera in secular press and then to explain the reason behind such nonsense to their non Parsee friends and colleagues.
    The text, tenor and tone of this letter to Editor of Jame clearly suggests that its Editor is expected to toe the line of the rabid few and forget Editorial independence. The demise of the Weekly as independent paper is now officially in black and white. Bravo for such democratic values.!

  • Rustom Jamasji

    Whilst the identity of sub christian/catholic community e.g Syrian christian etc will be and is protected by the D’Souza’s and the church and not fused even between sub caotgories , the Dsouza’s dont mind disrespecting the identity and distinctivness of the Zoroastrians that was created and passed on by a toil of 1000 years.

    Ofcourse the efforts to preserve the identity by other’s like the tribes in andamans, ladhak, Jammu, Kashmir , Himachal, U.A.E, Japan, Tibet, The Indegenious tribes of Australia, New Zealand, Canada, America etc have all etched rules out similar to the ones Zoroastrians took so as not to fuse ourselvs in a bigger, much more religious based environment. Only to be disregarded by those who claim they are doing it for Zoroastrianism so as to suit their personal agendas.

    Dsouza, ARZ, AZA etc by their act have also done to Zoroastrianism what they would think morally wrong to do do Hinduism, Islam or Christianity. The police would not entertain them if they would have done the same with respect to other community. Infact things would have been reverse then to keep peace and tranqulity as such an act against the Church, Imam or Pandit would have called for a forcefull reaction. But this was the Zoroastrian community and also AZA, ARZ and scores like Gupta and Dsouza would not mind fusing the Zoroastrian identity from within with that of their spouces.

    Another aspect is that incase another HINDU- Christian riot breaks out due to the conversion tactics of the chrisians like in Orrisa, Savio Dsouza and family,and Goolrukh Gupta ARZ, AZA will then be in hiding when a Zoroastrian colony comes under attack. Lastly the rioting communities will go their way and the minuscle Zoroastrian comunity will face the greatest danger as to survival.

  • Nemesis.

    Jame should also NOT publish any advertisement:
    =of abortion clinics,
    = of contraceptives,
    = of Sanitary napkins,
    = of scantly clad actresses etc etc,
    WHY, because a photograph of a reverend priests, sadhu, parson may also have been part of the same day’s news paper.
    And as everybody knows. News papers, after being read are treated as ‘raddi’ to wrap food items, garbage and these days even used to wrap soiled sanitary napkins by women in their periods. What an affront to priests, padres,etc whose photo is published simultaneously in the same issue! HOW SINFUL.(!)
    And if the Editor of Jame sincerely follows this advise then the community will replace Khordeh Avesta by Jame.

  • a.rustomjee

    Rashna,
    Yes it is the demise of the Weekly as an independent paper.
    What can you do? The Editor is expected to dance to the tunes of likes of tinpots who have clearly admitted that they have scant respect for editorial independence.They consider Editors of papers as their paid servants and as if they are paying Editor’s Salary from their pockets.
    Nothing better can be expected from such narrow and minds.
    In my view it is not the end of the weekly as an INDEPENDENT paper. Rather it is the initiation of process of the END of the News paper itself.
    And one suggestion, why a Hindu lady is allowed to insert matrimonial advertisements in Jame if we are to observe the “STANDARDS of puritan Parsees.?

  • Meher H

    I daily travel by local train to work and find many hutment dwellers answering the call of nature near the rail tracks and wiping their rear with newspapers due to acute water shortage. tch!
    God forbid, if they had used a copy of JameWeekly or WAPIZ page in FPJ fortnightly as these news papers are full of photos of our Saint Trustees and pendulum high priests.
    Tch tch!

  • piloo

    Those who have to hide their misdeeds and propagate their silly achievements want the liberty of the press to be curbed.Such autocratic minds expect everybody around them to be lame ducks. The fault lies in their upbringing.
    Let them decide the contents of the news paper including advertisements whensoever a photo of a Priest is published.
    And as for use Antacids, Pharma companies will be too happy for their sales will increase.

  • Boman Patel

    Thanks a million, Mr Burjor Bharucha for letting the cat out of the bag about the nexus between the Editor of Jame and WAPIZ. You have only confirmed the apprehension of many Parsi Zoroastrians about the predilections of this lady and your message comes as a reinforcement of this feeling.
    Perhaps the paper may soon undergo a name change viz WAPIZ Chronicle.At least then the average Parsi will receive a free copy of the propaganda paper.And let me tell you, I am no reformists, nor do I have any family member who has married a ‘parjaat’. Its just that I can not persuade myself to be called a fake Orthodox double dealer.

  • Firoz adas

    Mistakes happen by everyone, I don’t really think she should be talked on by this manner, in the end here it was just an ad! And anyways its been just some time since she has taken the charge.. I think we all should have some patience…..
    Rest she will do the best….

  • farzana

    Jeannie, righto, its not just ‘ego’, its elephant size ‘EGO’.
    I think HATHIRAM is taking his name too seriously.

  • Voice of Reason.

    If I were in her place as the Editor,out of a modicum of self respect for the profession, I would have tendered my resignation ascribing the reason as interference in Editorial independence.

  • beroz

    Beecharo BRAG BRAG Burjor Bharucha TYPICAL OF WAPIZ mentality is under an impression that he represents the voice of the whole community!! as if thats not loony enuff, he also thinks, anyone he shakes hands with, automatically becomes his lap dog!!!

  • Dorab Unwalla.

    Boman, instead of thanking Bharucha it would be better if you had carefully read the contents oh Hathiram’s letter to the Editor of Jame as reproduced hereabove.
    The sentence ‘……………………whereas before you were sending frantic SMSs to get the article to you.’ tears open the charade and facade of the News paper presenting balanced views. If one has ‘friends’ such as this, does one need an opponent to expose the facade?The paper is intended to be a mouthpiece of WAPIZ wallas who want to misrepresent that they are the voice of majority of the community.
    NOTHING OBJECTIVE OR IMPARTIAL CAN BE EXPECTED FROM THIS PAPER.

  • Noshir H. Dadrawala

    By allowing ARZ to air their views in Jame as a ‘Paid Advertisement’ Jame has:
    1) Editorially distanced itself from ARZ’s liberal views – A paid advt. cannot reflect the policy or stand of the newspaper.
    2) Been fair and allowed the other side to express it’s views.

    This is my personal view and readers are welcome to differ with me.

    Noshir H. Dadrawala

    P.S. I write this in my individual capacity and not as a BPP Trustee nor as a long-time correspondent of Jame.

  • Hormuz Batliwala

    Ha Ha! One advertisement and the orthodox go crazy. But rubbish for several months printed by WAPIZ in the Free Press Journal by the same orthodox and they expect others to read that.

  • Ketayun

    As things stand, the so called Navjote ceremony is done.
    The children have worn their Sudro-kasti.
    The priest has received his hefty pay packet.
    The guests have enjoyed the meal and the celebrations.
    The well wishers are congratulating each other and the parents for their “victory” over the orthodox “bigots”.
    ARZ has received its two minutes of fame for having worked out the logistics and managed to complete the ceremony with no untoward incident.

    Now what………???
    The children are confused. They cannot follow what to do with their newly invested kurta and rope.
    The fire temples will not permit them inside. Why so, when their own cousins and friends who are pure Parsis can visit them, they ask ? GOD is everywhere, he can be worshipped at home, in the school, on the playground reply the parents. Then why go through this mock ceremony in the first place, they will ask, maybe not now but when they grow up.

    Imagine the fate of these innocent children. What wrong have they done ? Why should they be meted out this step motherly treatment by their community ? What is their guilt in all this excercise ? Do the parents understand what they have brought upon their own children ?
    Sooner than later these children will turn into rebels. They will hate being a Parsi, or anything associated with Parsis. They will remove their kurta and rope in no time and start asking uncomfortable questions. That will be payback time for the parents and they will have no one for their support and no answers to give.
    What goes round comes round.

  • Dear All,
    We the people has to changed as per the time. I am very sorry to state that the Parsees are modern only in outlook & when it comes to Religion,they are still the same as the old timmers.
    I do not personely see any harm in performing the Navjote of the Childern whose father is not a Parsees.
    When those highly qualified Parsees think that it is wrong, then may i ask them that why do they go to Hindu Temples, Dargha & if you all parsees go to see i had personely seen many Parsees Attending the Wednesday Novena at The Mahim Chruch, at that time why are the so called learned Persons of the Parsees Comunity stopping all the Parsees from going to all the other places of worships.
    I myself was a very devout parsee once aupon a tme, I always used to go to our Fire Temples only & not to any other places of worships, but when i lost my Parents in this ungrateful world, there were many Parsees who were hunting me down for the simple sake of my Parents Properites. I was never allowed to sleep in peace by those so called undecent Parsees to whom my family & specially myself has done so many good deeds for the community, i personely used to take those Parsees to the most Respected Figure among the Parsees & that was non other than Mr. Jimmy Guzder in this way i had done a lot for the upliftment of those Parsees & in return what i got? all the worst type of abuses, all the worst typ of Nightmare & no Peace, this is the type that i got rewarded by some of our family close freinds, I do not wish to name all those who has only brought misery to me & had also made we Brothers & Sisters fight among our own slves.
    In the Holy Book Zend Avesta it is not written that stab those people who gave you all the best Facilities & above all who had helped the families of the Parsees who were unable to meet the end & were unable to get a full square meal a day.
    What ever has happened with me & my Family of we Brothers & Sisters, I pray to God that Please see that it dosent happen with other people.
    There is nothing wrong in performing the Navjote of other childern whose dad is not a Parsee is not a sin in the eyes of the God, but to steal somebody peace of mind & stab somebody in the back is the most severest of sin in the yes of the god.
    I am writing this, as i do feel that i should not wirte such things against my once a best religion, but than i thought that let those people who has done the gravest of mistakes by stabbing & taking away some thing which is very percious to all the Humans & that is ones childern which has complled me to write it.
    Most of all i am asking to the whole Parsee Comunity that will all those people who has snatched away my pericious jewel & that is my Daughter, will they be able to get me back my Lovely daughter?
    Please do see that when you point a finger at somebody than one should also know that the Remaining Four Fingers are pointed towards that particular Person.
    With Malice towards all.
    I hope that the People of Parsee Comunity would see all the troubles & Trauma that i & my Family of Brothers & sisters has gone Through.
    Hope that those people for whom i has been complled to write do read it & stop their unholy habits of breaking up other Families.
    May Ahura Mazda give those Parsees peace & joy.
    Ronnie Patel

  • Rashna_M

    Dorab,Boman and others
    Every advertiser goes for cost benefit approach while expending on publicity. Leave this typical case apart. What about Jewellers, Caterers, Florists etc.After spending in thousand in one insertion, the figure would go into lakhs annually. With limited circulation, do the Advertisers like Jewelers, Hoteliers,Caterers get any additional patrons due to publicity in this vernacular paper.
    Would it not be better if they print Parsi calendars and distribute the same particularly in places like Fire Temples, since Calendars are 12 month publicity.
    It is time evaluate rather than being sentimental in this hard times.

  • KERSSIE WADIA

    Dear all,

    KHSNAOTHRA AHURAHE MAZDAO

    A few relevant points:

    1.The said advertisement in the Jame Jamshed has been inserted by the couple whose children were initiated into Zoroastrianism, and not by the ARZ.

    2. While criticizing this simple factual advertisement, the so called orthodox seem to forget that Jame Jamshed is not their personal property. These orthodox also seem to forget the regular WAPIZ publicity page in the FPJ, and the rubbish printed therein. Yet the liberals aren’t perturbed.

    3.We at ARZ are pleased that we have been able to uphold the wishes of the Maloo/D’Souza family with the very able support from Dr. Kuresh Zorabi, and Ervad Firoze Kotwal. When the families have decided to follow the religion of Zarathushtra, who are we to object ? The mental agony this couple and their children were put through by the so called orthodox was indeed phenomenal, but it was their faith in the powers of Ahura Mazda that made them sail through.

    4.The Constitution of India guarantees LIBERTY OF BELIEF, FAITH, AND WORSHIP to every Citizen. Article 25 of the Constitution of India categorically grants this right to every citizen.
    We are glad the Mumbai Police and other authorities, very ably assisted this wonderful couple, and their lovely cute little children in the exercise of their fundamental right. Moreover in this particular case, the children’s mother is a Zoroastrian. So, what’s the issue ? What’s illegal about these Navjotes ?

    5. Ketayun in her comments above refers to the sacred Sudreh and Kushti as ‘ Kurta ‘ and ‘ rope ‘. We at ARZ are shocked !!
    We do not know if the so called orthodox are shocked as well.

    6.ARZ does not work for “two minutes of fame” as wrongly stated by Ketayun, above. In case people are not aware I would like to inform all concerned that ARZ works for the message of Asho Zarathuastra, and seeks no fame. “My religion must survive in my country” is the motto with which all ARZ workers work.

    7. We firmly believe , AHURA MAZDA NEVER FAILS.

    KERSSIE WADIA
    ARZ

  • farzana

    Kersee, very well written.

  • KERSSIE WADIA

    KHSHNAOTHRA AHURAHE MAZDAO

    Mr. Rustom Jamasji, above, states “Dsouza, ARZ, AZA etc by their act have also done to Zoroastrianism what they would think morally wrong to do to Hinduism, Islam or Christianity. The police would not entertain them if they would have done the same with respect to other community. Infact things would have been reverse then to keep peace and tranqulity as such an act against the Church, Imam or Pandit would have called for a forcefull reaction”

    My comments:

    1.Mr. Rustom Jamasji, by making sweeping statements you cannot condemn the purely religious and legal act done by ARZ and others.

    2.You also needs to realize that if such an act was done to other religions stated by you, the children would have been welcome into that religion happily with open arms.

    3.Your allegation on the Mumbai Police is baseless, untrue and malicious. ARZ is truly grateful to the Mumbai Police, and all other government authorities who have helped the MALOO / DSOUZA family uphold their fundamental rights guaranteed to them by the Constitution of India.

    AHURA MAZDA NEVER FAILS

    KERSSIE WADIA
    A R Z

  • Farrokh Umrigar

    Bravo Ervad Hathiram. You have really spoken like a true Zorastrian and from the heart. We most certainly support you.
    The likes of Jeannie Antia and others are just foul mouthed and ignorant persons who can only think of spitting venom at those who want to uphold their tradition and follow the tenets of the religion that they follow.

    As for Ms Meher H. – Well what can I say about a lady who has a great time looking at all those poor hutment dwellers answering their call of nature. Cant you even show that much sensitivity to give some privacy to those poor people? Thank your lucky stars that you were born in a community that has given you so much that at least you can fart in privacy. The same community which you are trying to destryoy.
    Dear Ahuramazda, forgive these ignorant fools for they know not what they bark.

  • Mazda

    Hello kerssie uncle,
    So are you the same person from ARZ about whom I read that is dumbfoundedly trying to erase our culture and community?

    When trying to do so you have lost thousands of cases?

    You try help people in converting from dalits to zoarastrians? Please dont do that, we dont wish to become like you….

    Is it not true that in your own office various trustees are accused seriously of using the(already less funds) funds in a wrong manner, who knows for personal use!

    Is it not true that you that you or your toxic organization is involved in various cases that are creating havoc in the community?

    Is it not true that you are interested in communities money more then the community?

    It is to own knowledge that you are trying to cheat people by collecting money on an account of building a fire temple for all, in the end you have no plans…

    Thanks…

  • Meher H

    @To person who calls himself Umrigar,
    When you undertake travel do you do so with your eyes shut?
    As for your praise of Hathiram, you ‘Umrigar’ are one such person who believes that one whom you praise will be future ‘High’ Priest. After all as the old saying goes, birds of the same feather flock to gather.
    And since your future high priest has become a spokesperson on behalf of the derelict Priest of Doongerwadi and will be ensuring that his defence of this priest is published in JAME of next week, DIRECT the Editor that no advertisement of non Parsi product or service is printed. Else it will once again ‘offend’ your hero.

  • Farrokh Umrigar

    Meher H.
    Thats exactly my point. I keep my eyes open as well as my conscience to which you have shut your doors. Dont involve those poor persons and exploit their vulnerablity. Keep your vulgarity to yourself. Besides, I dont just call myself Umrigar I am one and only Farokh Umrigar. Ushta Te

  • N.T. Fekamfek.

    Meher Dikra or Dikree,
    Not all travel by train as you appear to. Some take to WALKING short distance like between Parel to Dadar and it is also good for health, you know. Is is a substitute for medication.

  • Ketayun

    Mr.Kerssie Wadia, I have used the terms kurta and rope as they have been described by a non Z. Our non Z friends do not know the actual names and hence refer to them this way. They don’t mean any offence or insult to our religious items. Since the D’souza family is totally non Z they obviously may use the same terminology.

    You firmly believe “AHURA MAZDA NEVER FAILS”. I have a few queries if you don’t mind.

    1. Why has Ahura Mazda failed you in inserting weekly ads in Jame after January 2010 ?

    2. Why did Ahura Mazda fail you when the two renegade priests of ARZ, Madon and Mirza were debarred by BPP for praying at Dungerwadi.?

    3. Why did Ahura Mazda fail you when the illegal Navar of a Russian was being held at Sanjan ?

    4. Why has Ahura Mazda failed you in constructing a cosmopolitan fire temple at Malad for all and sundry although the land is available for free to your ARZ group?

    5. You say the D’souza family has inserted the Ad in Jame. Why would that family spend lakhs / thousands on a full page ad just to thank a handful of people? I am sure these same people could have been thanked verbally or via mail letters saving this extraordinary expense.

    6. Several such mock Navjotes are being held everywhere where the father is a non Z. They do not advertise or blow their trumpets and the children may probably be entering fire temples surreptiously. In this case now that the matter is out in the open, do you as founder of ARZ guarantee that the D’souza children will be permitted inside any fire temple in Bombay where they reside?

    7. What is the difference between paid WAPIZ ads in the FPJ and paid ARZ ad in the Jame ?

    8. You call this act “purely religious and legal”. Is this your own opinion or does it bear religious sanction from our High priests?

    9. How much do you charge for such “purely legal and religious” Navjotes ?

  • farzana

    Mazda, firstly what exactly you MEAN by culture. Vandalizing a private property and doing dadagiri in a small town may be YOUR CONCEPT OF CULTURE.

    As for ‘thousands of cases’, CAN YOU MENTION AT LEAST ONE case filed by ARZ in ANY Court of the country. It will be a source of information for ALL. If you can NOT mention even ONE case, it is time for you just learn the art of keeping cool with Rashna Concentrate. And also let us know which ‘case’ filed by ARZ HAS CAUSED ‘HAVOC’ since we are knowing of NONE.

    Similarly, please inform for the knowledge of all on this portal the NAMES of DALITS converted by Kersee or ARZ. As far as I know, offering prayers as per religious tenets can not erase CULTURE or COMMUNITY! OR ARE YOUR outbursts outpourings of a frustrated toxic DRUJ mind???

    As for your allegation about the Association ‘misusing’ the donations, please let everybody know, how much contribution you or persons belonging to your type of ‘thinking’ have contributed towards ARZ? And If you are so confident about the allegations of misuse of Funds, what has stopped you to approach the Office of Charity Commissioner? Go ahead,for your information the address of Charity Commissioner is- Dharmada Ayukta, Dr. Annie Besant Rd, Worli, MUMBAI 400018…. show your nerves, i shall gladly provide you stationery for the same and the Postage as well. It is another thing that you like a typical “BOLD” will NEVER DARE TO disclose your identity or address for the fear of being pulled up for slander and libel.
    Your comment is therefore more of your ‘contribution’ to be in the good books of those who are Tour Conductors to a country from where our forefathers were persecuted and had to flee. And what about such Tour Conductor demanding contributions for a so called ORPHANAGE for Zoroastrians (!).

    First learn to clean your own stable before attempting CALUMNY which happens to be the signature unZoroastran ‘virtue’ imbibed in persons like you. AND I DO NOT BLAME PARENTS OF ANY BODY UNLIKE YOUR COTERIE.

    BTW its well known that ARZ does not depend on cold drink concentrate manufacturer for arranging wining and dining as was done to attract crowds at Dadar Parsi Gymkhana some months back, where as per the plan, mikes had were managed to be switched off to evade responding to genuine questions.

  • Disgusted Humdin.

    Ketayun.
    Your messages leaves a reader bewildered.Your own parents must have spent considerable amount to induct you into our Religion and you are pretending to be a champion of orthodoxy disparagingly calling kurta &rope while hinting at Sudreh and Kusti. When you give your own ‘Kurta’ to your Dhobhi (Washerman) what do you refer to sudreh as?
    It is this obnoxious language which gives a really bad name to the entire Orthodox.Even Hindus know the meaning of Sudreh and if your banter was directed towards D’Souza family, let me say,you displayed extremely poor tastes while expressing your disapproval.
    By the way Ketayun, as and when you enter a Fire Temple, have you ever asked any Chasniwlla ,if he is wearing “Kurta” and Rope after having his actual Navjote performed ?. And if the poor chap answers in the affirmative have you asked:
    a) the name of his BOTH parents,

    b) the Name of the Priests and the place such a Navjote was performed.

    If you have not undertaken such an exercise in the past, please do so in at least 5 Fire Temples, next time and you will be transfixed with the results.
    I am not a member of any Association, rightist, leftist, neo Nazi or Reformist but a simple but broadminded humdin disgusted with your brand of hypocrisy.It is people like you who give a handle to Reformist lobby to ridicule the faithful.

  • sunosh

    Katayun I perfect agree with you, the non z family must not be even knowing who our prophet is. Forget about following our religion.
    KERSSIE WADIA ARZ has done a sinful activity, today he has converted a Christian, tomorrow he will convert a MUsLim, the same people who years before almost killed us. It must be a betrayer such of his kind who had informed the Arabs about our secrete escape from iran and then many of our boats were bashed. We came all the way to protect ourself, but people like him waste all the efforts done by our ancestors.

  • Mazda

    Are you a self appointed servant of Kersie or something else? I don’t know to what drama of modernity would they go to.
    You need to clear you knowledge, say just like right now itself you are trying to defend the defenseless who does not have guts to defend himself but claims to do good for the other’s. I would like to inform kersie and his puppet that we all are not blind, your bad deeds can’t be kept hidden much, your days are numbered.
    I am already cool, I never require any thing, may you do, because you are scared and angry that you cannot defend the lies known as Arz..
    I don’t know why are you so frustrated with the conversion line related to dalit, are you scared of certain open facts to which they can go or is it your personal issue?
    Do you think the public is fool? Do you think we believe in Arz? please come out of your dream world. Charity Commissioner, good idea for sure, but the fact is this, there are certain evil minds of likes of yours which help them out to MAKE FAKE BILLS by which they eat not only their money but also of our communities minorities which believe in them by sour mistake.
    I will be honest here, I am loving you frustrations which signals our victory.
    I must appreciate your indirect submission to the fact that you are some how related to Arz connection, that’s why you called your friends in here and are busy being their mom, caught you with your pants down.
    After reading your statements it feel like you are a string attached to a torn kite know as Arz going down in sewage.
    Please don’t talk about parents here, its disrespectful to bring in such lewd arguments here, SHAME ON YOU. I really actually don’t wish to pay attention to you now, you have made me so sad na, with your WEIRD comments. If you cant bear certain fact then its not worth getting personal, I wonder why are you getting personal, If you are wrong and can’t establish something its ok, go ahead & learn to forgive yourself.
    Yes I know Arz is self-sufficient, in the end thief’s do earn good.

  • piloo

    As an after thought Ketayun has stated that she mentioned Kurta and Rope while referring to Sadra and Kashti since D’Souza’s would term it that way,
    Madam, ON THIS BLOG you were NOT addressing D’Souza’s. You were on the blog meant for members of Parsi Zoroastran Community in particular. Your attempt to escape from your insulting reference to what is sacred for Parsees WILL NOT CONVINCE EVEN a 10 year OLD. You may be deceiving your own self if you think you have managed to ‘convince’ anybody by your ‘clarification’

  • Voice of Reason

    Kerssie Wadia,
    I think what Rustom Jamasji means by his sentence is that those in authority always support the majority and not the dissenters. In that way he is candid enough to admit that the rigid members of Parsi community who opposed this Navjote initiation are in a MINORITY. We must congratulate him for this bold and candid remark.
    @Disgusted Humdin: I fully concur with you observation about Ketayun’s outrageous remarks.All should condemn such perverted sense of irreligious behaviour.

  • Ketayun

    Why is it that questions addressed to Mr. Kerssie Wadia are being answered by his Chamchas and Chamchis? I am not interested in hearing from ANYONE ELSE except Mr.Wadia.

    Since Mr.Wadia is founder of ARZ he should be having his answers ready, after all my question are quite simple and straightforward. In case he does not check this site frequently, I can mail them to Jame Jamshed which he must be reading regularly and he can answer me there.
    Thank You.

  • Rational guy

    Today’s situation in Parsi community which appears to be full of chaos, disorder, no leadership, vested interests and attempt to malign each other.

    Reminds me of Sassanian era around 500+ AD where reform moments like Mazdakism and Manichenism emerged to protest against the high handiness of corrupt Priests and worthless Kings. Although the Sassanian and Priest cartel succeeded in winning temporarily by subjugating the reformers with the use of force, in the end Islam swept the whole kingdom and Sassanian along with their Priests were thrown in wind.

    Definitely history appears to be repeating here – I think the only beneficiaries of this feud will be Maharashtra Government, BMC hawker mafia who will use the feud to capture the vast properties managed by old trustees.

    It is sad that types like Ketayun who take pride in temporary
    suppression by fascist forces she associate herself with, fails to read the writings on the wall. Ahura Mazda never fails, he has given his verdict to Sassanians and Nazis. Now its due to Khojeste Mistree and his Ku Klux Klan of kurta -rope wearers who think they are God ordained arbiters of Ahura Mazda.

    You called the D’souza Navjot ‘fake’, but where does it say in Gatha that Navjot has to be performed to be a practising Zoro? ALL navjots are fake inventions by later Priestly class to keep their relevance.

  • Meher H

    KETAYUN HAS ASKED IF THE SAID NAVJOTE HAD “APPROVAL OF HIGH PRIESTS”
    DO HIGH PRIESTS GIVE APPROVAL? IS KETAYUN’S OWN NAVJOTE DULY APPROVED BY A HIGH PRIEST? DOES SHE HAVE A CERTIFICATE IN THIS REGARD?

  • Disgusred Humdin

    Ketayun, You are free to question Wadia on this forum or in Jame. I am least concerned. But since you have chosen this forum, I have asked you to find out if Chaasniwallas in Agiaries adorning Kurta and Rope have got their Navjotes actually performed and about their parentage. Meher has also observed a point that I missed regarding approval of high priest before getting a Navjote performed. I am not aware of such a proviso. Please do enlighten all on the blog in this regard..
    If you do not have logical answers to queries, please say so or at best keep quiet. But you add to your attributes when you call other person as Chamchas, etc since I had made it clear that I owe no allegiance to any Organisation or group. Nevertheless you may pursue your questions with Wadia. I have no issues on that right of yours but correspondingly it is your duty to reply questions made by independent boarders and addressed to you instead of foul mouthing by calling other boarders “CHAMCHAS.”

  • Nemesis.

    Dear Mazda,
    This refers to your post of 24th instant and I am reminded of the couplet from Shakespeare
    “The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
    But in ourselves, that we are underlings.”
    You too must have read this as you seem to be product from a church affiliated School.
    I had expected an interesting and animated MATCH between you and a person who seems to be your bugbear. But adas oops alas you disappointed everybody on the portal.
    You ventured to state in your post of 23rd April on ARZ about thousands of cases filed by ARZ. and when your bête noire asks you to mention just one and leave mentioning remaining 999, you CAN NOT MENTION ONE CASE. Why did you pay a compliment to Office bearers of ARZ for filing thousands of cases when they are unable to finance even solitary suit.
    Your opponent asked you to name the case which according to you caused HAVOC. And you choose an easy way out – Digress.Where has your original zest disappeared?
    You alleged that Dalits were inducted into Zoroastran faith. WHY DID YOU GIVE CREDIT FOR THIS TO ARZ is hard to be understood. Why I ask, should you endow false credit when this has happened before this Organisation was even conceptualized. This can be seen in most places of Religious Worship in the form of SAFAI WORKERS. Now this lady who has been bothering you, may claim some sort of a award imagining herself to be equivalent of a Medha Patkar or Setalwad.
    And by the way, those living in the same complex are enjoying at your expense and it is rumored that they have even given up on watching I.P.L. matches and prefer reading your fiasco here.
    Dear Sir, you badly need a respite because your multiple identities may cause split personality which is a serious disorder. Take Care. At least for the sake of the constituency which you assume you represent.

  • Khari

    Baname Khuda…

    I 100% agree with you katayun, the SO CALLED navjote was a big joke itself, the two priest destroying the children’s life are actually themselves banned! Even after the navjote the children won’t be allowed to enter any agyari.

    Why did their mother have to do such a cruel thing with those cuties, why!

    Arz is an fraudulent Organization, consisting of no facts or standards at all.
    Here is a brief on the said organizations & its dramatist jokers, this link proves everything needed to be so.. http://tenets.zoroastrianism.com/WarningARZ_1.html

    Regards Yazad Kha.

  • farzAna

    Mazda, You have miserably failed to substantiate any of your imaginary allegations. I salute your “Victory”. And why are you so agitated when according to you ARZ is going down the sewage? You ought to be rejoicing but your tone reveals agony and frustration… Or is it that you have ‘reservation’ even in sewage!!!

  • KERSSIE WADIA

    Mazda,
    It appears some wrong facts about ARZ have gone into your mind. Please let me explain:

    1. Neither ARZ nor any of its trustees have ever filed any case against any person. Therefore your statement that we have lost thousands of cases is totally untrue.

    2.You have also stated that ARZ has helped dalits convert to Zoroastrianism. This statement is also totally baseless and untrue.

    3.You have further stated that “in your own office a lot of trustees are seriously accused of using the (already less funds) funds of the trust in a wrong manner”. Please note that this statement is also totally incorrect. All the trustees of ARZ are people with an impeccable and exemplary record of conduct both in their personal and public lives. Never ever has any of our trustee been involved in any such act.

    4.You have also stated, “you and your toxic organization is involved in various cases that are creating havoc in the community”. This statement of yours is also fully untrue because as explained above we have not filed any case on any person.

    5.You have additionally stated,”You are trying to cheat people by collecting money on account of building a fire temple for all, in the end you have no plans…” YES, we are collecting monies for building a Zoroastrian Center/fire temple for all. But we are not cheating people in any way. All our activities are above board.

    I hope I have cleared your apprehensions. May God bless you.

    KHSHNAOTHRA AHURAHE MAZDAO

    KERSSIE WADIA
    ARZ

  • Boman.

    Will anybody inform from where all u people get articles on tenets Zoroastrianism.com? What about those who have no computer in their homes? Is it meant only for net savvy? But then internet came recently so how can old religious literature be on net? What about books?
    I thought such contents would be in book form. I tried in Strand Book shop. No luck. Same at Oxford Book shop at Churchgate.
    So I went to hawkers near Dadabhai Navroji statue but still no luck.
    If this literature is only available on internet then it must be surely of recent one quoting names to misguide the reader.
    Views of a coterie can not be views of old Scholars. I agree with one Scholar here who has stopped writing here. He said that one can not learn religion from internet or books or lectures.So contents of Tenets reliability doubtful.

  • Darayas Malegam

    Dear Kerssie ,
    I have been reading the various responses and I agree as far as getting dalits into zoroastrianism is concerned

    Were it not our fore fathers who impregnated poor adivasi women , made them a victim of their lust and then got the navjotes of their offspring performed ? The parsi is reponsible for creating a new race and the funniest part is that the members of the same community scream ” PURITY ” ! that too after excepting their fruit of lust into the community –

    The man on top position does not give any one the right to discriminate against my zoroastrian sisters

  • Darayas Malegam

    When will people understand the difference between a conversion and an initiation ? ARZ HAS CONVERTED NO ONE NOR HAVE THEY EVER ENCOURAGED CONVERSION. A child when born is NOT from any relegion , that is why there is an initiation call it navjote , communion , janoyi or what ever – The DSouza navjote as it is being called was NOT a conversion but an INITIATION of two children who embraced ZOROASTRIANISM . So I would request those who are busy bashing trhe Dsouza family to stop !!!! Nothing happens without Gods will so when GOD has embraced the children who are all of YOU to condem them and their Navjote ??? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone , look at your own inner selfs and then point a finger at another .

  • Jeannie Antia

    Darayas Malegam, I really like your comments:

    Were it not our fore fathers who impregnated poor adivasi women , made them a victim of their lust and then got the navjotes of their offspring performed ? The parsi is responsible for creating a new race and the funniest part is that the members of the same community scream ” PURITY ” ! that too after excepting their fruit of lust into the community –

    The man on top position does not give any one the right to discriminate against my Zoroastrian sisters.

    I always wondered why some Parsis are so fair like Europeans and then again others are dark like Indians normally are.

    I so agree with you: Our Prophet Zarathustra would have loved everyone without discrimination of skin, wealth, health, race or grace! It’s the condition of the heart that makes a man a man and a lady a real woman!

    Thank you for your words. The first fine words I’m reading on this site!

    Jeannie

  • Mazda

    farzana I won’t be replying you due to your over abusive manner that I just encountered, even bringing in parents from no where! I was very sad.
    Nems I did not understand a thing.

    Kerssie WAdia Uncle, I would like to have freedom to ask you few questions, won’t exceed five, but one by one.. Hope you do have courage & will to answer them. You way writing impresses me, though there are certain emails in which I figured out different patterns. I wish you can answer the same in precise(yes or no) and then in details if wanted and if needed by you yourself.

    Uncle Do you support conversation of a juddin to Zoroastrianism, In short would you support conversation? Would you help one no matter what in this regard..

  • Behram Aga

    @Boman
    What you have mentioned can only be expected. When you ask for religious books in an outlet selling fiction / general books that is the obvious reply you will get. Its like walking into a toy shop and asking for sanitary napkins.

    For religious literature you could browse through the library at K. R. Cama Oriental Institute. The articles on that website have been scanned from old magazines / newsletters and manuscripts and some have been written by present day scholars and Vada Dasturjis.

  • Jeannie Antia

    Mr. Mazda, what bad manners: why call people and when they are not your uncles and aunties!

  • Jeannie Antia

    didn’t get printed well so once again:

    Mr. Mazda, what bad manners in calling people uncle and auntie when they are not your uncles and aunties!

  • farzana

    Its ok sweetie Mazda, you could have simply said you have nothing to reply.. Anyway you’re forgiven.

    @ jeannie, he is trying hard to be sarcy 🙂

    Behram Aga, nice to see you here :)) cheerz :))

  • Rohinton

    Mrs Jeannie Antia-Wimmer,

    Stop being so condescending !!!!!
    ” Uncle ” and ” Aunty ” may not be used in Germany, but they are routinely used in India to address people.

    However un-cool and un-Western these terms are to you, you should learn to show some respect and tolerance for other peoples’ ways, even if YOU NO LONGER follow these ways.

    And speaking of manners, you should learn some yourself…..
    you have posted a ridiculous and unwarranted comment
    ( one of many !!!) on a post that was honoring Mrs.Katy Dalal who had just passed away !

  • Rustomji Edulji Sethna

    Jeannie and Farzana,

    Is it a coincidence that you both comment at about the same time and pat each other on the back?

    In all your commenting on Parsi Khabar, I have never seen you both say anything positive.

    If you really dislike the Parsi way of life as it exists in the current way, why don’t you move on and do your own thing?

    Why come back again and again and find faults, negativism and ridicule people here.

    What you think is frivolous, stupid and demeaning, is dear to thousands of people.

    Just because it does not suit your sensibilities, it does not mean that everyone else is wrong.

    At its most basic level, its about the choices we make. And here the options are not necessarily opposites…as in good/bad right/wrong.

    My sincere request to you both and to another commenter Siloo Kapadia too……..try to inject some positivity in your demeanor on this website and people will be willing to listen to you, without getting ticked off or mentally shutting you out of the conversation.

  • Jeannie Antia

    Dear Rustomji, thank you for your lines. Le me confirm to you for sure that Farzana and myself are the most positive ladies imaginable. It’s just that both of us belong to the Parsi Zoroastrian Religion and get shocked by all these old fashioned Parsi Zoroastrian mind-backwardness.

    If the younger generation doesn’t stand up and starts crying for Change, Freedom and Liberty – things will never change!

    Besides, God gave Me / Us a mind to think, a mouth to open and a heart to stand up !

    I love being a Parsi – please don’t misunderstand it. I just don’t take any brainless stuff like not letting people into MY fire-temples and telling ladies when they are in their special days to please leave the rooms when people are praying and all this

    … please pardon my words … PLEASE ….

    and all this SHIT !

  • Farrokh Umrigar

    Dear Mr. Sethna,
    You are great. You have really put those two Obnoxious (Jeannie Antia and Wimmer) in their proper place.

  • Ketayun

    @Kerssie Wadia, founder of Association for Removal of Zoroastrianism (ARZ)
    Why have my nine simple questions posted on 23rd April not been answered yet ? Why have you shown your discourtesy to a lady?
    Has AhuraMazda failed you again to answer these questions?
    When shall I receive my answers?

  • Dorab.Unwalla

    Rustomji,
    This is not an apology for what these ladies say on this blog.But in my view the comments being made by these ladies represent their OWN points of view which may not be pleasing or soothing for all but it is totally unbelievable when you state that ‘What you think is frivolous, stupid and demeaning, is dear to thousands of people’.
    Dear Sir, you or a dozen like you claim to represent THOUSANDS at a time when a joke is being circulated on SMS’s that besides tigers Parsis need to have PROJECT to be saved.Our community in India has still not reconciled to Women power. I do not agree with ALL that they blog but I can not ask somebody to curb their liberty, nay right to express.

  • Jeannie Antia

    Liberty, Humanity, Equality + Love = FREEDOM !

  • Rustomji Edulji Sethna

    Jeannie…

    Zoroastrianism is the religion. The term Parsi is cultural.

    The fire temple does not belong to you. It was built by different people and they set the rules for use. So, your say “MY” fire temple is not valid. Raise money and build your own and do what you want in it. Profess and practise your own version of Zoroastrianism.

    Dorab….sorry to say but the majority does not want what Jeannie preaches. If that was the case, the majority would have voted for another set of trustees at the last BPP election. The very fact that this did not happen means something.

    Rules and Laws are meant to be obeyed. If you dont agree, change the laws in a democratic manner.

    And yes Jeannie can say what she wants, where she wants. You should read the last line in my comment above.

    Calling “all this SHIT” does not make me take the writer very seriously.

  • Jeannie Antia

    Sir, may I introduce myself! I am in direct line from an old Dasturji family ! Besides my forefathers built many fire temples and we have always been a family of donation! My grandfather paternal side was a well known Professor at the University in Bombay / India. When my beloved grandfather maternal side retired the streets were right up to Napean Sea Road blocked with people saluting to him!

    Never will I shut my brain or mouth – never will my heart get cold!

    Jeannie Antia
    born in Bombay

  • Rustomji Edulji Sethna

    Jeannie, thank you for the background information.

    So, if you are a trustee of any fire temple that your family built then you have the power to make the rules for that fire temple.

    Go ahead and do it. And I am sure there will be a lot of people who will thank you for it.

    However till that happens, follow the rules that are put in place by those who built fire temples and run/maintain them as per the wishes of the builders/donors.

  • Rustomji Edulji Sethna

    A proverb that would sum it up

    “Put your money where your mouth is”.

    Raise your own money, build your own fire temples, set your own rules and live happily ever after.

  • Jeannie Antia

    Rustomji Edulji Sethna

    Please do not speak to me directly on this blog any more. I wish to have no more communications with you!

  • Mr,Rustomji,
    Its nice to say such words, but it is very hard to deigest the Truth. Even i am of the Opinion that there is nothing wrong in Performng the Navjote of an outsider, if that person wants to convert into your Parsee fold.
    First of all look at the Population of your Parsee Religion, if there is no marriage & if you do not allow any outsider to get convert, than it would be another 5 or 7 years before your Religion is wiped out from this earth.
    Then the People would come to know & learn all about the Parees from the world Museum that there was once upon a Time there was a Race Called “Parsees” who were only Modern in outlook & Narow Minded when it comes to Religion.
    My Sincere Request Please do allow others to get convert into Parsees & save the Once The Religion of the Great Aryans.

  • Jeannie Antia

    Ronnie, what wonderful words! Save The Religion of the Great Aryans! Let’s open our hearts and hands to everyone who wants to belong to the Zoroastrian religion. Ahura Mazda will bless them!

    Jeannie

  • piloo

    Mazda seems to be undecided in his question which reads ‘Uncle Do you support conversation of a juddin to Zoroastrianism, In short would you support conversation?

    What may I ask is illegitimate in conveSATION. Afer all it is a democratic fundamental right to talk/converse on any decent topic.There is liberty enshrined in the constitution to talk, discuss. Even our religion does not have something akin to Maun Vrat or not talking. If however Mazda has misspelt and means CONERSION than I for one believe he is asking a wrong Wadia.In my opinion the appropriate Wadia to answer such a question will be the one who was inducted into Zoroastrian fold with the blessings of our respected High Priests.And I assume he is non resident.

  • piloo

    Dear Ronnie,
    I disagree, we can not allow conversions in the same manner the Church does of Adivasis with inducements. That simply is not permissible but if one parent is a Parsi Zoroastrian and the other parent has no objection,then the child should not be denied the right to follow the path of Zoroastrianism.

    As for comments of R.E Sethna, I can only say that his own ancestors would not have borne the cost of Fire Temples now in existence. I agree that provisions of the donors who paid for construction and setting up of Fire Temples have got to be observed. But are they being sincerely observed. Go to any Fire Temple and one finds apparent mixed breeds as ‘Cleaners”. Do we have two set of rules i.e. selective application. I concede the proposal of Sethna that rules have to be changed in a democratic way. So there is a doctrine to change the outdated clauses of a Trust with aporoval of goverment authorities like Charity Commissioner. Persons like Jeannie can approach such authorities provided persons like Sethna assure that they will not set up a couple of dummy individulals to object against such changes with the old battle cry of religion in danger. Let us take a balanced approach like educated and a law abiding community which of late has been portrayed in poor light after Sanjan episode of imitating sone fringe groups of other faiths out to use brawn instead of reasoning.

  • farzAna

    Jeannie, just do what your heart tells you, not any Sethna. Though I concur with Sethna that change has to be democratic. For that reason, are we not supposed to stimulate public opinion. righto? We are doing just that. 🙂 But I don’t understand why he is so upset with us, ladies. Curiously he has no problem with any gentlemen here who air similar views. I think Sethna thinks as WOMEN, we can’t hold any independent opinion and should cow down to his wishes!! Don’t you think he is a TRADITIONAL stereotype living in wrong times??? tssskk tssskkk !! Sad, we can only pity such PETTY minds!! And continue with our good work!!:)) Cheerz

    Now the person who calls himself RUSTOMJI EDULJI Sethna, realise one thing, – elections to BPP which were held in Mumbai were confined for Parsis living in India more particularly western part of the country only. That cannot be considered a litmus test to construe that ‘your type’ are in ‘majority’. Zoroastrianians are world over, and you and your views can NOT represent ALL. So stop speaking on behalf of THOUSANDS, unless you have a MANDATE from THOUSANDS to show us here.

    Further, for that matter BPP is a Trust and Trustees were elected for administering the vast properties.Thus,the Trustees cannot arrogate and usurp power to frame religious fatwas based on advise of “High” Priests who are themselves not elected democratically from their own Mandals but assume ‘highness’ based on the principle of Tolas or even heredity. One could have understood legitimacy of the directions of a Single High Priest elected by a democratic process like the Pope in Vatican. Whereas the Catholic church has a vast following with a single Pope, our tiny community of around 55,000 is having 6 cardinals. These cardinals mostly reside in Mumbai in luxury and not in their own territorial jurisdiction which is a further irony. While their sycophants here preach us DEMOCRATIC VALUES!! Wonderful!!

    And since you Mr .Rustomji EDULJI Sethna have boasted about Victory BPP election, I assume you must have exercised your legitimate franchise during BPP Elections.But to your dismay,I have to just inform you that one of the candidates who contested this election in 2008 was kind enough to have provided me a copy of Voters List, both Donors and General which I have preserved. Despite diligent and repeated search I do not find YOUR august NAME in the said lists. What does one make of this? Another Fake profile of a Coward man!! Lovely!!

    Lastly if as you say, Fire Temples are supposed to function as PRIVATE CLUBS, they should formally issue membership passes for the same and stop calling them Fire Temples. And you and the persons belonging to your coteries would have to obtain from Chasniwalas in the Fire Temples a certificate from their respective priests who supposedly performed their Navjotes that their Navjote was performed validly with date, place, name of performing priest. Are your ready?

    And FINALLY for your Information, Sethnaji, Ive decided to keep stimulating public opinion here and everywhere i choose to as a Democratic right guaranteed to me under the constitution of my Country. Got it!! Whether YOU like it or not.

  • farzAna

    Ronnie, im still not sure if Parsees in India follow Parsism or Zoroastrianism!! Strangely no where in the world Zoroastrianism is practiced the way Parsi tribe seem to practice here.

  • Jamshed H. Bastani

    Rustomji Sethna,

    Well said, I could not have put it better. Agree that there is too much negativity on this blog because of which so many good people who were writing in here have left and we are now left with these negative minded individuals who will ridicule evryone and anyone who have differing viewpoints. I believe one of the reasons could be that these individuals have inter married and are now desperately looking out for support and legitimacy. Or else they might be having close relatives who have gone astray and are now out of the Parsee fold.

    Non Parsees look upon this situation with eager eyes as there are very few Parsees and plenty of Parsee assets. Which is why every Tom, Dick and Larry wants to convert. Our misguided humdeens then give into this game not knowing that they are commiting harakiri. We trust our traditional humdeens and scholars can knock some sense into them.

  • Rashna_M

    Mr. Sethna,
    Are you trying to suggest that B.P.P. elections or the candidates who were successful represented a Religious agenda? I do not remember this. You are mixing up property administration with Religion. In all the Election meetings, the theme was allotment of flats or alleged favoritism.And if you know the personal family life of those elected, many of them have close relatives who are married out.
    The Electoral system by adult franchise for B.P.P. has been a curse. Have you found any constructive work being done? B.P.P.is like Jharkhand government – marriages of convenience have taken place just to retain power. There are records to show what all false promises were made like tenancy instead of leave and license and reconstruction of dilapidated buildings.
    I would certainly prefer an impartial administrator than the present set of Elected representatives whose achievements for welfare of the members of the community are a big Zero.

  • Rustomji Edulji Sethna

    @Dorab and Ronnie and Rashna_M

    I don’t claim to represent thousands. I speak as one of them. Big difference. The last BPP elections had two distinct groups. The traditionalists and the liberals. From what I remember they did campaign as a group on each side of the divide. And one side had 5 of 7 candidates elected and the other side just one. Thousands of people voted at the elections. And they did speak with their vote. Whether we like it or not BPP is a body that is beyond just property administration. The liberal group had on their agenda a lot of things that had to do with non Parsis and their status/acceptance. Which you will agree are religious issues. So there is no easy way to separate them.

    Yes we are a very few left, but that is no argument to trample the rights/traditions/practice of the majority of that very small minority. And as people often say, there may come a day when we are so few that it all does not matter. Let us cross the bridge when we come to it.

    @Piloo

    I agree with you that the situation in fire temples is not the ideal. And I don’t have an answer to that. But yes I agree with you that there is a big disconnect there.

    @Farzana

    I could care less if you were a lady or a man. The internet knows no sex. And the only reason I wrote to you both is, because unlike some others here who rail away, you both also contribute a lot of thought provoking comment. As much as this promotes conversation, your tone and demeanour is so negative that its difficult to get past that and see what you really want to bring to the table. Once again please read my concluding paragraph in the very first comment.

    As regards me voting in the BPP, I did not vote. And I am not registered. This is because during the period of registration, I was stationed outside of India for a period of three years. However I don’t think that being an eligible voter is necessary to comment on this website. You are just proving my point. Trying to constantly find faults or negativity in others seems to be something you relish. What I write does not have any relevance to whether I am a voter or not. Another lady on this comment thread does not even live in India. And hasn’t done so in years. She still leaves to opportunity left to ridicule the BPP. Why? Why not just move on? Set up a “Punchayat” type of organization wherever you call home, set your own rules and do your thing then. I am surprised that you would waste your time going over some voter list just to check whether I am registered or not ! And as regards me being a fake….you can check with Arzan and Mehernaaz and Shirin here at Parsi Khabar. I and my family are know to them and the Wadia family for the last three generations. So please drop this conspiracy theory act.

    You can write what you want, and say what you want. No one will stop you. However what you do and how you do it, speaks a lot about who you are. And the internet never hides that.

    And lastly

    @Jeannie the same way you will speak your mind so will I. And I will address you directly. I don’t think you like it when a spade is called a spade. Everyone can talk the talk. Now its time to walk the walk. Let’s see some actions after all these big terms about liberty and freedom etc. I am sure Parsi Khabar would love to publish news of a new fire temple for a new Zoroastrian age. Channelize your energy towards that. That I am sure will make your forefathers proud of you.

    And you can have the last word if you so feel the need. I am out of this comment thread for now.

  • Jeannie Antia

    I requested you not to correspond with me directly any more! Glad you decided to go out of the comment thread – since there is no substance in all your comments! The followers of Zarathustra will never die out, Mr. Goodeljee Behramjee Firozjee Sethna-Bhaijee. Not as long as there are Lady Amazons like Farzana and myself riding swiftly on Ahura Mazda’s wild and free horses! I bet on it – you will again want to comment! Ahura Mazda loves you, Sir! Ahura Mazda loves everybody – no matter of colour, status, gender or race!

  • Mazda

    Kerssie Wadia Uncle please replace the word Conversation to conversion, hope you don’t use that to skip the questions..

    Piloo

    Thanks for the help, but I still wonder what you meant in your large paragraph to mention a single mistake.

    Jeanni Antia you just called yourself a wonderful women, do you know who praises himself/herself?

  • Rohinton

    Dear Mr.Rustomji Edulji Sethna,

    Thank-you for caring enough to speak up.

    I would just like to add here, that from Mrs Jeannie Antia-Wimmer’s comments you would think she has brought her children up as Zoroastrians and Zoroastrians only.

    But, no, they are BOTH, Zoroastrian and Christian !!!

    “Half-hearted” in the practice of the religion , but “fully devoted” in her attacks on our way of practice of our religion.

    As for Farzana….she wonders ” if God does exist ” on another post ( Dr.Firuza Parikh), yet she relentlessly continues to ATTACK our practice of the Zoroastrian religion !!!!!

    Their intent here, I am sorry to say, is not what they profess but something quite the opposite.

  • Rémi

    I would just like to react to the post of Jamshed H. Bastani 28 April 2010 at 3:32 pm:
    “Which is why every Tom, Dick and Larry wants to convert.”
    This point is totally relevant in India where Parsis’ achievements are well-known.

    Here in France, very, very few persons have ever heard of Parsis and Zoroastrianism. The man Zoroaster is known from Nietzsche’s Book “Also sprach Zarathustra”, but the religion in itself is a mystery for 99.9% of my fellow citizens. Some have a vague idea of Dakhmas.
    Just a little survey to Parsis living outside India: How many of your non-Parsi friends or colleagues had heard of Zoroastrianism before?

  • Byram Sidhwa

    What is there to congratulate Rustomji Sethna for.
    He says ‘ I don’t claim to represent thousands. I speak as one of them. Big difference.” How does he know what is in the minds of THOUSANDS when he says he was stationed outside India.
    And he further compromises addressing Piloo by saying
    ” I agree with you that the situation in fire temples is not the ideal. And I don’t have an answer to that. But yes I agree with you that there is a big disconnect there.”
    If he has no answers to stark reality then he should avoid preaching.
    Any way I appreciate that this person has the wisdom to indirectly admit that our community practices double standards while accepting half Parsis as menial workers in Fire Temples.

  • farzAna

    Sethna, I’m going to exercise my democratic right to freedom of speech anyway. Just read, even the Supreme Court of the country has upheld the right of actress Khushboo to express her personal views. You are free to read my views as ‘negativity’ if they do not suit you. I feel the same about your comments here, but that won’t stop you from airing your thoughts, than who are you to stop me or anyone here??
    Feel free to mentally shut me out of your conversation if you so desire.

    Regarding your disapproval at Siloo and Jeannie’s comments on BPP makes no sense, unless there is some policy here that says only those living in Mumbai can comment on functioning of BPP!!

  • Edulji Munshi

    What are you constantly arguing about? When will we accept that we are human beings. There were some persons in the very distant past who decided to expound a theory. Our birth into Zoroastrianism is by chance and this religion is also a theory. The end result is that all religions preach good words, good thoughts and good deeds.
    Any human being who can accept that he is first that and next a citizen of a geography (created by human beings) should only think that he is of a particular religious sect by accident of birth. S/he practices what parents teach which is called ‘conditioning’. S/he is too young at that time to question what is taught.
    But as a person grows in age and becomes a free thinker with the ability to choose, things change. That is why people have different views. And, instead of an arranged marriage or any union with relatives, it does seems logical that marrying someone of your choice because of feelings is a better bet for a lasting relationship, even though there is a difference in the language and content of the prayers one recites. If both parties to such a marriage jointly choose that the child should be a Zorostrian, so be it.
    It may interest you to know that I am personally aware of a Dutch lady and a British girl whose parents refrained from teaching religion to them as children. They told their respective child to grow up, decide upon what she would feel is best and embrace that religious philosophy.
    This constant argument is getting the community nowhere; what is required is a young, 21st century-aware group to handle the BPP as administrators of the vast estates, just like the country needs similar approaches to governance. Unfortunately, we have bigots with us and corrupted old men in government.
    This is a great forum which I have found today.

  • Rashna_M

    Dear Mr. Jamshed Bastani,
    I recollect that one of your previous posts, you had mentioned that you were quite aged and sought assistance of your grandson to post messages here on your behalf. In your post of 1st March you have mentioned the condition of Z College. I am a frequent visitor to Saronda Nargol area. Assuming that you are residing in that area, I was keen to meet you since I too am equally concerned about our community affairs. But on enquiries in these areas amongst prominent Iranees, I was told that no senior person with your name is living in these areas. Can you provide your full address so that in our future journey, we can have the privilege of discussing similar issues.
    Have a good day Sir.

  • Rohinton

    Mr.Edulji Munshi,

    Your comment, “instead of an arranged marriage or any union with relatives ……” is ridiculous, to say the least !
    Are you suggesting that if one marries a Zoroastrian it is only
    as an arranged marriage or as a union with relatives ?

    And yes, your Dutch lady and British girl – which two different religions did the parents follow ? Christianity and Christianity ?

    Also, your sentiments are extremely fine on paper.
    In reality, (and I speak here from my experience of the Inter-married Parsees and Zoroastrians in the U.S. Darbe Mehr) the children of the Inter-married Parsi/Zoroastrians follow BOTH their parents’ religions even AFTER their Navjotes and we have this constantly thrown in our faces, along with “threats” that they will decide on which religion to follow
    depending on how well they are accepted by that particular group !!!!!!
    In the meantime, they continue to avail themselves of all the benefits associated with both the religions and treat the Darbe Mehr as their personal property from which they can “hound out” Zoroastrians who do not pander to their
    half-religion theory. The result is that our children, who are fully Zoroastrian are forced to find other avenues for the worship of their ONLY religion !
    From the vicious, obnoxious behaviour of these Intermarrieds, I have concluded, that in reality, they follow neither religion!!!
    Not the remotest chance of any good thoughts, words or deeds from these particular individuals !
    I correct myself here, they do scream and shout about socio-economic issues on the stage and in the newletters because they need these ” community service ” requirements for college admissions !

    Also, in my experience of other mixed-religion families, I have noticed that religion gets replaced by spirituality, and sometimes by a complete distancing from any religion. This is not a bad thing, but please do not delude yourself that this is going to promote the Zoroastrian religion !

  • Farrokh Umrigar

    Mr. Munshiji,It is ignorant people like you who not only keep on arguing but trying to prove your kakko kharo. You say that we are born into the Zoroastrian religion by chance.What chance are you talking of? You think this a game of Roulette or Matka? I wonder if you even believe in God? If yes then please know that it was the almighty who has decided to send an individual in this world to follow the x y or z religion and if you dont want to follow His wishes and want to take the law in your own hands then so be it. You are most welcome to your views but please dont force it down our throats. The tenets of this religion are being followed by the Parsis since over a thousand years and all our Vada Dasturjis and scholars cannot be wrong. Just because some people who are influenced by the West and want to be defiant does not mean that we should toe your line.

  • farzana

    Edulji, Your comment read wonderfully. Heres what I believe- There is one race -Human race and one religion-Humanity. All Religions are ideas or concepts that a group of ppl agree with. Nobody is born superior on basis of his parent’s religion. The problem with persons like Umrigar is that they get upset when somebody does not agree with their concept of kharo kakko. They want everybody to behave like sheep so that they can lord over the sheep a la sheep dogs who want to be listened to all the time.

    As far as I know, Ahura Mazda translates to ‘Great Wisdom’. Where do we find this GREAT WISDOM? in sky? no, its within us!! Ahura Mazda lives within us. Ahura Mazda is our conscious…our great Guide who guides us in our travel though our life. It is this ‘Wisdom’ of ours that gives us freedom to choose between Good & Bad, Right & Wrong. And what we choose decides the consequences of our actions. That is our reward.
    Ahura Mazda is same reality with creation, he is not separated from it. We are part of him and He/she is part of us. Interestingly in Gathic Dialect, Mazda is Feminine, while Ahura is Masculine.
    Ahriman is a CONCEPT too, a state of mind. Not a person or angel like this Satan. For me these are different conceptions. Men can be victorious over Ahriman by adopting Good thoughts, Good words, Good deeds, and one who does that is a Zoroastrian, rest are not whether they are born from Zoroastrian parents is immaterial.
    Again, i must say, these are my thoughts, and you may choose to contradict them.

    Do you know why a big Ganesha sits on a tiny mouse? Ganesha like Ahura Mazda symbolizes Wisdom. Mouse is a symbol of greed. A Big Ganesha ie our good Wisdom is needed to keep our human greed in check.
    Man fight wars over Gods, issue fatwas in name of God, but only if man spend little time understanding their God… In Buddha’s words- Look within, thou art the Buddha.

  • farzana

    Rashna, ive heard of one Jamshed Bastani purportedly living in a Parsi Colony near Elphinstone. Dunno if he is the same gentleman. You know aapri Bawa community is so small, we all know each other like mama maasi na kaka na saggaas…Kaun panyo kauni satte, ney kaunna kauni satte divorce thayeeya.

  • Jamshed H. Bastani

    Rashna_M

    I would have gladly invited you over to my place at Dahanu but for the unwarranted remark of your comrade by name farzana who has put in a very crude comment about me. I do not stay in any Parsi colony, I have my own house. Hence my family members disapprove displaying any personal information on this blog. Therefore lets just remain as strangers.

    I remember a comment made recently by Rustomji Sethna with regards to blogger Farzana,
    Quote “You can write what you want, and say what you want. No one will stop you. However what you do and how you do it, speaks a lot about who you are. And the internet never hides that.” Unquote
    How true.

  • Rashna

    No, no, Farzana.
    This gentleman, I remember sad in his earlier posts that he was residing somewhere near Nargol Saronda.He also has a wife named Rati.
    You are confused.

  • Darayas Malegam

    Dear Mr Sethna ,
    You are right in telling us that the ones for change should build their own fire temples and you know what SETHNA , ARZ and those of us who truly believe Zoroastrianism is a Universal religion are collecting funds to build our own fire temple and Mr SETHNA …once the fire temple is complete you are most wellcome …for the spiritual nature of your being is Universal , the temple will stand for the Universality of what Zoroastrianism teaches and encourages you to practice .
    You talk of Good words , good thoughts and good deeds but in reality it is ego , pride and prejudice ….Hope yr not upset with me expressing my views
    God Bless

  • Darayas Malegam

    @ Farzana …..Rarzana loved the line you wrote
    ” in Gathic Dialect, Mazda is Feminine, while Ahura is Masculine ”

    To all you discriminating hypocrites out there Ahuramazda is incomplete without Ahura AND Mazda —- so is the zoroastrian community incomplete without its females so stop discriminating !!!! Love everyone as your own …..Does a Banayan tree ever dirscriminate when giving shade in the heat ? does the rain discriminate as who can drink its waters ? does Love discriminate between love and the lover ? Then why do you “PURE PARSIS ” have such an impure and un natural doctrine ? why do you replace embrace with a shove , why do you replace acceptance with rejection ? why do you replace oneness with divisions ? WHY WHY WHY CANT YOU ALL BE IN THE LIKENESS OF THE GOD WHO CREATED YOU ?
    When will you realise that Heaven was not built by Parsis for Parsis ? When will You realse that there is more to your evolution than the BPP and the dokhma …when will you learn from our Morther earth to love , to share , to sustain and to provide without hesitation , doubt , fear or discrimination ?

    You recite the Sarosh Baj daily ” Ahunem Vairim Tanum Paiti ” There exists nothing greater than AHUNEM or AHUM or OM —–there exists nothing but oneness !!!!! then why my beloved ones do you chose to live in division ???? Wake up now before its too late .

    Love Everyone As Your Own .

  • Byram Sidhwa

    Dear Edulji Munshi,
    If I were you, I would just say to people like Umrigar that the world of ALL PARSEES is not restricted to ghettos or colonies where they reside.

  • Hosi.Pardiwala

    Mr. Rustomji Edulji Elusive Sethna.
    Like any other bold of your class you disappeared as if you were a number 9 batsman with instructions to hit sixers.
    You and your ghost writer label all those who point out flaws as REFORMISTS and ask them to establish their own Fire Temples and Punchayat etc.
    Whose ancestors from the side of great Orthodoxy established Mazdeyasni Monastry that your Staunch saviours ransacked. If money for the same was not from your ancestors then you have trespassed on SOMEBODY else property. And the School where D’Souzas performed the Navjote did NOT BELONG to ancestors of your savior brigade either. HAVE YOU ANY ANSWERS?

  • Jeannie Antia

    My mind is on holiday out in my wonderful big garden full of tulips and spring flowers!

    I wish everyone a wonderful weekend!

    Jeannie

  • Rashna_M

    No Jamshed Uncle, I do not know Farzana from adams so she is no comrade of mine. I have even corrected her arrogant remark. Just read my post of 9/17 a.m. of to -day.You cant do this. I am disappointed. Any way I have my cousin having a wadi in Dahanu and I will be visiting them this week end.

  • Rustomji Edulji Sethna

    Hosi

    I have nothing more to add to this discussion. Hence I had clearly stated that the previous comment was the last one. That fact still remains.

    As and when I will see something amiss I will bring it up. Thank you.

  • Rashna_M

    And Jamshed Uncle, I always make it a point to visit the Fire Temple when ever I visit Dahanu , so well maintained. No.? Since you are so religious minded you too must be visiting it regularly.Good Night Uncle.

  • Farrokh Umrigar

    And Byram Sidhwa,
    You have certainly confirmed yourself as a yellow coward who does not have the guts to speak out for yourself.
    Does Munshiji really need people like you to speak out?

  • Rashna.

    I AM MISSING YOU Mr. JAMSHED BASTANI as wel as your friend  Rutomji Edulji Sethna. Awaiting your come back.

  • Banyan Tree

    V well said