Speak Your Mind: Open Thread

This is the very first time we are trying this idea. This is an open thread for discussion. Speak your mind. Anything and everything, topical or off-topic can be discussed in the comments. No personal attacks and no vulgarity. Say….

  • Anonymous

    If there was one Parsi dish that you could eat daily what would it be ? For me it would be bhakhra and kolmi na kavab.

  • If there was one Parsi dish that you could eat daily what would it be ? For me it would be bhakhra and kolmi na kavab.

  • Rohinton Dastoor

    Bhakhra and kolmi-na-kavab makes two dishes, not one!!!!

  • Rohinton Dastoor

    Bhakhra and kolmi-na-kavab makes two dishes, not one!!!!

  • Subbod

    In India, tons of knowledge each humankind holds especially Parsi’s. An attempt should be made to capture this and/or those individuals should be given a platform to share.

    It is said that one humankind life & his/her experience can generate 10 books of 1000 pages knowledge that can be used and/or used as reference by next generation and next to next.

    Parsi Khabar must think on this aspect and take corrective actions before these individuals wither away with the knowledge.

    Knowledge could be any type : Habits, process, food making, food serving, marriage, social cause, country, law, justice, media, sports, entertainment, business, production, music, religion, gossips, etc. etc.

    Phadke S. N.
    I am not Parsi but highly inspired by Parsi’s.
    Thanks to Dr. Cooper, Mr. Panthaky, Dr. Naushad, Mr. Farhad, Dr. Aga, Mrs. Anu and Mrs. Meher from I learned many things. Without being taught & told.

  • Phadke

    In India, tons of knowledge each humankind holds especially Parsi’s. An attempt should be made to capture this and/or those individuals should be given a platform to share.

    It is said that one humankind life & his/her experience can generate 10 books of 1000 pages knowledge that can be used and/or used as reference by next generation and next to next.

    Parsi Khabar must think on this aspect and take corrective actions before these individuals wither away with the knowledge.

    Knowledge could be any type : Habits, process, food making, food serving, marriage, social cause, country, law, justice, media, sports, entertainment, business, production, music, religion, gossips, etc. etc.

    Phadke S. N.
    I am not Parsi but highly inspired by Parsi’s.
    Thanks to Dr. Cooper, Mr. Panthaky, Dr. Naushad, Mr. Farhad, Dr. Aga, Mrs. Anu and Mrs. Meher from I learned many things. Without being taught & told.

  • Dr.Arnavaz Havewala

    have you heard about the rewards given to indian cricketers after winning the world cup?

    each one of them gets rs. 2 crore, is the buzz, and the man of the match, the man of the series, gets more.
    WOW!!!!!!!!!!

    and what reward does the govt. of india give to the polecemen or jawans who are killed in the line of duty, fighting naxalites?
    rs. ONE LAKH only.

    what a tragedy…and how very unfair!

    its not surprising, considering this, that our policemen and jawans get demoralised.one of them even stayed away from duty for an extended period of time, as he was posted in chhatisgarh.

    what do all others who read this email feel?

  • Dr.Arnavaz Havewala

    have you heard about the rewards given to indian cricketers after winning the world cup?

    each one of them gets rs. 2 crore, is the buzz, and the man of the match, the man of the series, gets more.
    WOW!!!!!!!!!!

    and what reward does the govt. of india give to the polecemen or jawans who are killed in the line of duty, fighting naxalites?
    rs. ONE LAKH only.

    what a tragedy…and how very unfair!

    its not surprising, considering this, that our policemen and jawans get demoralised.one of them even stayed away from duty for an extended period of time, as he was posted in chhatisgarh.

    what do all others who read this email feel?

  • Dr.Arnavaz Havewala

    i would eat khichdi, macchino saas.
    its yummy. and i dont think anyone makes it like our parsee women.
    by the way, how can you ask for only ONE parsee dish?
    it would be more fun to ask for FIVE.

  • Dr.Arnavaz Havewala

    i would eat khichdi, macchino saas.
    its yummy. and i dont think anyone makes it like our parsee women.
    by the way, how can you ask for only ONE parsee dish?
    it would be more fun to ask for FIVE.

  • Hombil

    Very good idea, provided an idea by someone does not result in a debate!

  • Hombil

    Very good idea, provided an idea by someone does not result in a debate!

  • Hombil

    Very good idea, provided an idea by someone does not result in a debate!

  • Kunwalla

    very natural, the first post has to be food………

  • Kunwalla

    very natural, the first post has to be food………

  • Anonymous

    Debates are OK. Infact here they can go in any direction, while on a post, we try to keep them to the topic.

    And….debate…..we Parsis…..never !!!! 🙂

  • Debates are OK. Infact here they can go in any direction, while on a post, we try to keep them to the topic.

    And….debate…..we Parsis…..never !!!! 🙂

  • Anonymous

    Dr….

    I completely agree with you. All sportsmen should be treated equally as should other people who serve the country.

    The politicians are using taxpayer rupees to dole out gifts and favors, as if they are coming out of their own pockets.

  • Dr….

    I completely agree with you. All sportsmen should be treated equally as should other people who serve the country.

    The politicians are using taxpayer rupees to dole out gifts and favors, as if they are coming out of their own pockets.

  • Anonymous

    Keki…come on….if there is one thing that all Parsis unite on….its Food ! I’ve never heard a traditionalist or a liberal crying foul over dhansak, or patra ni macchi, or “cutles-kavab”.

    Maybe that should be the main item on the agenda to get everyone together. A full belly will cool tempers and saner discussion would follow.

  • Anonymous

    Rohinton point noted…..OK…what are your two favorite dishes.

    By the way….you didnt answer the question 🙂

  • Keki…come on….if there is one thing that all Parsis unite on….its Food ! I’ve never heard a traditionalist or a liberal crying foul over dhansak, or patra ni macchi, or “cutles-kavab”.

    Maybe that should be the main item on the agenda to get everyone together. A full belly will cool tempers and saner discussion would follow.

  • Rohinton point noted…..OK…what are your two favorite dishes.

    By the way….you didnt answer the question 🙂

  • Anonymous

    I love macchi no saas with rotli…..like in lagan nu patru. And you are right. I have never tasted a similar dish in other cuisines.

  • I love macchi no saas with rotli…..like in lagan nu patru. And you are right. I have never tasted a similar dish in other cuisines.

  • Anonymous

    Subbod….very valid suggestion. Our aim at Parsi Khabar here is to keep an archive of news that involves Parsis in the online media. And at the same time provide a platform for people to discuss and debate.

  • Subbod….very valid suggestion. Our aim at Parsi Khabar here is to keep an archive of news that involves Parsis in the online media. And at the same time provide a platform for people to discuss and debate.

  • Barak Aga

    On one hand, the pseudo-orthodox in India claim that Zarathustra did not start a new religion, did not convert people to his faith, and that He merely REFORMED an existing religion.

    On the other hand, they label the adherents of Zoroastrianism as “REFORMISTS” and indulge in “Reformist bashing”.

    1) If the religion as given by Ahura Mazda was perfect, why did Zarathustra have to reform it?

    2) Or was it that the religion given by Ahura Mazda was so flawed that Zarathustra had to reform it?

    3) Was Zarathustra insubordinate to Ahura Mazda? Did Zarathustra think he knew more than Lord Ahura Mazda to reform what was given byAhura Mazda?

    4) Why was Zarathustra not told, “if you don’t like the religion of Ahura Mazda the way it is, you are free to leave. You cannot cut the cake and eat it too?” Just as the pseudo-orthodox are advising the adherents of Zoroastrianism today.

  • Barak Aga

    On one hand, the pseudo-orthodox in India claim that Zarathustra did not start a new religion, did not convert people to his faith, and that He merely REFORMED an existing religion.

    On the other hand, they label the adherents of Zoroastrianism as “REFORMISTS” and indulge in “Reformist bashing”.

    1) If the religion as given by Ahura Mazda was perfect, why did Zarathustra have to reform it?

    2) Or was it that the religion given by Ahura Mazda was so flawed that Zarathustra had to reform it?

    3) Was Zarathustra insubordinate to Ahura Mazda? Did Zarathustra think he knew more than Lord Ahura Mazda to reform what was given byAhura Mazda?

    4) Why was Zarathustra not told, “if you don’t like the religion of Ahura Mazda the way it is, you are free to leave. You cannot cut the cake and eat it too?” Just as the pseudo-orthodox are advising the adherents of Zoroastrianism today.

  • Marzban Vesuna

    You can eat five dishes in one sitting if you’re sitting on the otlaa in my dad’s hometown of Nargol and breathing in the fresh sea breeze wafting across the old Parsi mohalla. I remember when it used to be a bustling baawaa mohalla in the late 70s early 80s and the lovely Nargol beach. Those were the days.

  • Marzban Vesuna

    You can eat five dishes in one sitting if you’re sitting on the otlaa in my dad’s hometown of Nargol and breathing in the fresh sea breeze wafting across the old Parsi mohalla. I remember when it used to be a bustling baawaa mohalla in the late 70s early 80s and the lovely Nargol beach. Those were the days.

  • Marzban Vesuna

    You can eat five dishes in one sitting if you’re sitting on the otlaa in my dad’s hometown of Nargol and breathing in the fresh sea breeze wafting across the old Parsi mohalla. I remember when it used to be a bustling baawaa mohalla in the late 70s early 80s and the lovely Nargol beach. Those were the days.

  • Gustad

    Church wedding – some experience
    I am a Zarthosty. I attended recently wedding at church. I was invited because groom, non-christian, was known to me. So non-Christian was marrying Christian. I was amazed at the church’s behaviour towards non-Christians. Because my friend, groom, and even myself and likes, were not baptized, Father ignored or I should say it is customary in the church for non-Christian to do nothing and just watch the show. All the attention was on the bride by Father. Even Father gave her to drink wine and biscuit (some special kind – or blessings) and at the end all Christians stood in line and got ‘biscuit – blessings’. Innocently I also stood in line and some wise guy told me you are not Christian and you should not stand in line.

    I felt insulted that I was invited in the church but treated differently…. Parsis in India are better, in my view, not allowing non-Zarthosties, who has not been performed Navjote and not wearing Sudreh & Kusti, to enter Fire Temples; thus reducing embarrassment later.

    Parsis in India can only save our Zarthusty religion. I am in Australia now and am watching Zarthusty religion has no head and no tail so to speak.

  • Gustad

    Church wedding – some experience
    I am a Zarthosty. I attended recently wedding at church. I was invited because groom, non-christian, was known to me. So non-Christian was marrying Christian. I was amazed at the church’s behaviour towards non-Christians. Because my friend, groom, and even myself and likes, were not baptized, Father ignored or I should say it is customary in the church for non-Christian to do nothing and just watch the show. All the attention was on the bride by Father. Even Father gave her to drink wine and biscuit (some special kind – or blessings) and at the end all Christians stood in line and got ‘biscuit – blessings’. Innocently I also stood in line and some wise guy told me you are not Christian and you should not stand in line.

    I felt insulted that I was invited in the church but treated differently…. Parsis in India are better, in my view, not allowing non-Zarthosties, who has not been performed Navjote and not wearing Sudreh & Kusti, to enter Fire Temples; thus reducing embarrassment later.

    Parsis in India can only save our Zarthusty religion. I am in Australia now and am watching Zarthusty religion has no head and no tail so to speak.

  • Hi Gustad!
    I,m sorry that you had such a bad experience when visiting the church. The wine and the biscuit are the holy communion and are the most important christians do to confirm their faith. It didnt do any harm if you received it but someone should have told you that its a very sacred ritual for christians.
    By the way, I,m are a Zartoshti. Convert from Norway.

    all the best to you. Tor

  • Just one question to the moderator.
    Are my comment due to moderatian or is it deletet. If so, why?

  • Just one question to the moderator.
    Are my comment due to moderatian or is it deletet. If so, why?

  • Daisy Daruwalla

    I am a Zarthosty and I want to ask Parsi Khabar about an article I read recently on Parsi khabar. It is regarding the celebration conducted in Udwada on the anniversary of Paak Iranshah. I read that ther Chief Minister of Gujarat Mr. N Mody was the chief guest and he invoked the blessings of Humakta Hushta Huvarashta. I had an argument with my friends about it. what I want to know is was he allowed to go in for the same? Please if someone can clarify this with me I will be very grateful.

  • Daisy Daruwalla

    I am a Zarthosty and I want to ask Parsi Khabar about an article I read recently on Parsi khabar. It is regarding the celebration conducted in Udwada on the anniversary of Paak Iranshah. I read that ther Chief Minister of Gujarat Mr. N Mody was the chief guest and he invoked the blessings of Humakta Hushta Huvarashta. I had an argument with my friends about it. what I want to know is was he allowed to go in for the same? Please if someone can clarify this with me I will be very grateful.

  • Anonymous

    There is nothing under moderation. I dont see any comments from you before this. Please re-post.

  • There is nothing under moderation. I dont see any comments from you before this. Please re-post.

  • Anonymous

    Daisy….from what I have heard….and I wasnt there personally to see…..is that Modi walked past the gates of Iranshah and bowed in respect. He did not enter the fire temple etc. I am sure that he would not want to do that to hurt the sentiments of the community.

  • Daisy….from what I have heard….and I wasnt there personally to see…..is that Modi walked past the gates of Iranshah and bowed in respect. He did not enter the fire temple etc. I am sure that he would not want to do that to hurt the sentiments of the community.

  • I guess the reason are that there was a misunderstanding. The bread and wine are for the christians the holy communion. Anyhow there is no harm done if you got to taste it 😉 The bread and wine symbolyzes Jesus flesh and blood and are the most holiest sakrament in christianity. So here you have an explanation.

    all the best Tor

    PS. by the way, I,m a norwegian Zartoshti (convert by mobed Kerman Jamshidi)

  • I guess the reason are that there was a misunderstanding. The bread and wine are for the christians the holy communion. Anyhow there is no harm done if you got to taste it 😉 The bread and wine symbolyzes Jesus flesh and blood and are the most holiest sakrament in christianity. So here you have an explanation.

    all the best Tor

    PS. by the way, I,m a norwegian Zartoshti (convert by mobed Kerman Jamshidi)

  • thx, it probably got lost in cyberspace ;))

  • thx, it probably got lost in cyberspace ;))

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Tor,

    Welcome to the fold. Out of curiosity, what attracted you to Zoroastrianism? Would love to get details of how you got interested in the religion. Please share your experience. Thanks.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Tor,

    Welcome to the fold. Out of curiosity, what attracted you to Zoroastrianism? Would love to get details of how you got interested in the religion. Please share your experience. Thanks.

  • Barak Aga

    Dear Gustad,

    I agree with you. “Parsis” are doing a good job saving the religion.
    1) They have changed the name of the religion from “Zarthusti” religion to “Parsi” religion.
    2) They state that folks such as you who are from Iran are not the true Iranians, not true Zarthostis, and they are the true Iranians.
    3) The seminaries where Zoroastrian a.k.a. “Parsi” priests train are almost empty. The entire priestly class has turned their backs on priesthood.
    4) 44% of Zarthustis in Mumbai, marry non-Zarthustis.
    5) The death rate has far outstripped the birth rate. For every 5 “Parsis” who pass away, only 1 is born.
    6) Due to in-breeding the community is beset with fatal ailments such as cancer.

    You are truly correct, the “Parsis” are going great guns.

  • Vikram Modi

    Hi, while reading about famous Parsis, mostly in business, I started creating this family tree:
    http://stimulatedannealing.wordpress.com/2010/11/21/the-parsi-genealogy-project/
    Thought it would be of interest to this list…please check it out.

  • Hi Meheryar.

    Thx for the welcome.

    The reason I got interested was first of all when I studied anciant christianity at the university and discoverd the close connection between judaism and the good religion. Then I started to read ancient persian history and realized the truth in Zarathustras teaching. I was so lucky that I got in touch with the anjuman here and got the possability to convert. I had studyied the faith three years before the conversion so I felt I was fairy good prepared.

    regards Tor

  • Hi Meheryar.

    Thx for the welcome.

    The reason I got interested was first of all when I studied anciant christianity at the university and discoverd the close connection between judaism and the good religion. Then I started to read ancient persian history and realized the truth in Zarathustras teaching. I was so lucky that I got in touch with the anjuman here and got the possability to convert. I had studyied the faith three years before the conversion so I felt I was fairy good prepared.

    regards Tor

  • Hi, while reading about famous Parsis, mostly in business, I started creating this family tree:
    http://stimulatedannealing.wordpress.com/2010/11/21/the-parsi-genealogy-project/
    Thought it would be of interest to this list…please check it out.

  • Arzan

    WELCOME TO THE FOLD OF CONVERTS. You speak as if you are the leader of converts. No Mobed has the right to convert and if they do it is not accepted and does not make him a Zartoshti so as to speak. Mobeds who preach conversion are available at a dime a dozen the world over and people are free to pay them and convert. I CAN SEE THE MOBEDS LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK BEACUSE OF THESE SUCKERS. A PERSON WHO LEAVES HIS OWN RELIGION TO FOLLOW ANOTHER IS NOT WORTHY OF DISCUSSIONS.

  • Arzan

    WELCOME TO THE FOLD OF CONVERTS. You speak as if you are the leader of converts. No Mobed has the right to convert and if they do it is not accepted and does not make him a Zartoshti so as to speak. Mobeds who preach conversion are available at a dime a dozen the world over and people are free to pay them and convert. I CAN SEE THE MOBEDS LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK BEACUSE OF THESE SUCKERS. A PERSON WHO LEAVES HIS OWN RELIGION TO FOLLOW ANOTHER IS NOT WORTHY OF DISCUSSIONS.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    No, not a leader of converts, but a strong proponent of free choice, in all aspects of life, including religious choice, given to all humans by God. The Gathas actually talk about spreading the faith to all of humanity. Mobeds do convert. And many have. Dasturji Kotwal did; hold him accountable for his actions before you point fingers at others. No one asked you to respond or join this discussion. You did it of your own free will. You exercised your right to make a choice.

  • Rathestar.

    If no Mobed has the right to convert, how was late Neville Wadia converted to Zoroastrianism, even though his father was NOT A PARSI ZOROASTRIAN/

  • I dont know wich world you live in, but you are totally wrong. My conversion did not cost me a penny. I even got the sedreh and kushti for free. Can you imaging? If someone is laughing its maybe because they are more hindu than Zartoshtis like you. You have implemented the hindu caste system in the good religion, shame on you.You feel so good about yourself, because some have had success wich you are surfing on. I dont care because I,m not dependent on charity as you probebly are. It was an iranian mobed that gave me the sedreh pooshi, and the iranian zartoshtis are the only one that have kept the good religion intact. In the 1800 hundreds you had to get help from european scholars so that you could learn about your own faith. Its not enough to resite prayers my friend, you hve to have it in your heart. Tell me one thing: When the prophet Zartosht came with his message, did all of his followers belong to his family? Was king Vistasp his kind? or did he convert? A person so arrogant as you live a life according to Angra Mainiu. You dont even understand your own religion

  • I dont know wich world you live in, but you are totally wrong. My conversion did not cost me a penny. I even got the sedreh and kushti for free. Can you imaging? If someone is laughing its maybe because they are more hindu than Zartoshtis like you. You have implemented the hindu caste system in the good religion, shame on you.You feel so good about yourself, because some have had success wich you are surfing on. I dont care because I,m not dependent on charity as you probebly are. It was an iranian mobed that gave me the sedreh pooshi, and the iranian zartoshtis are the only one that have kept the good religion intact. In the 1800 hundreds you had to get help from european scholars so that you could learn about your own faith. Its not enough to resite prayers my friend, you hve to have it in your heart. Tell me one thing: When the prophet Zartosht came with his message, did all of his followers belong to his family? Was king Vistasp his kind? or did he convert? A person so arrogant as you live a life according to Angra Mainiu. You dont even understand your own religion

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Dear Tor,

    You have hit the nail on the head. Those who decry conversion have no knowledge about the religion. When repeatedly asked to produce evidence to support their contention, they consistently produce nothing. Whatever anyone says, you are a Zoroastrian and nothing can change that. The dogs bark and the elephant keeps on walking (to quote a “learned” poster here) converting more and more people along the way!!
    The truth of the matter is that conversion is allowed and encouraged by our prophet Zarathustra. The Gathas are replete with directives from Zarathustra and Ahura Mazda to spread the religion far and wide. Let me share those with you. My personal comments are in parenthesis.

    Ha 49.9: That diligent (or intelligent man) born for benefiting the world will listen to the commandments of my religion.
    (Zarathustra asks the world to pay heed to his teachings)

    Ha 49.5: Whosoever in this world regards the Mazda worshipping Zoroastrian religion as the best through the good mind is the source of abundance and prosperity, O Ahura Mazda!
    (Zarathustra says that if people around the world follow his religion they will find prosperity.)

    Ha 46.19: Zarathustra tells his disciples: Whoso will help me with his sincere heart in my Prophetic Mission enthusiastically, his honor and fame will be enhanced, and deserving reward will be granted to him in the world beyond.
    (Prophetic Mission means spreading the religion; Prophetic Mission means actively converting people to the faith. The words cannot be more clear.)

    Ha 31.3: …Speak thou with the tongue of the mouth, O Ahura Mazda! For the enlightenment of me and my disciples so that I cause all men to put faith in the religion.
    (Zarathustra beseeches Ahura Mazda to help him in getting “all men”, meaning all of humanity, to follow his religion.)

    If you look at Ha 32.15; Ha 46.16; Ha 43.11; Ha 45.1; and Ha 43.7, you will find Zarathustra seeking help from God to promulgate the religion to all mankind. These are Gatha translations by the esteemed Avesta scholar Dastur Edalji Kavasji Kanga. Dastur Maneckji Nusserwanji Dhalla, a High Priest, has written volumes on Zoroastrianism where he proves that conversion is a practice encouraged in the faith. Never having read any book on the religion, they will refer to scholarly works presented as “Google material”; unable to argue intelligently, they will deride other people’s knowledge.

    Tor, those who speak against conversion are steeped in ignorance. They will twist words to foster the falsehoods entrenched in their mind. They will say things like the only choice allowed in Zoroastrianism is “the choice between good and evil” without producing any evidence to support that. Zoroastrianism is a religion of free choice in all aspects of life. There is no “Thou shalt not…” in Zoroastrianism. It is about using wisdom in the affairs of life; poor judgment or lack of wisdom will have consequences that the individual will have to bear. You will see many responses to this post saying “the Gathas cannot be followed.” The reasons given will be ludicrous. You will see warped arguments presented with no substantive proof. There will be some who will say they don’t need to read or need any proof. Why? Because they want to create a brand of Zoroastrianism that violates every tenet of our prophet’s teachings. They are eager to dismiss his words and create a faith that springs from their twisted beliefs. And they have the gall to call themselves Zoroastrian!

    I say, once again, Tor. Welcome to our great faith! (Zarathustra calls out to the world to pay heed to his religion.)Ha 49.5: Whosoever in this world regards the Mazda worshiping Zoroastrian religion as the best through the good mind is the source of abundance and prosperity, O Ahura Mazda!(Zarathustra tells Ahura Mazda that prosperity will come to all of humanity if they follow the religion he propagates. There is no exclusion here; “all of humanity” is the operative phrase. )Ha 49.9: That diligent (or intelligent) man born for benefiting the world will listen to the commandments of my religion.(Zarathustra calls out to the world to pay heed to his religion.)Ha 49.5: Whosoever in this world regards the Mazda worshiping Zoroastrian religion as the best through the good mind is the source of abundance and prosperity, O Ahura Mazda!(Zarathustra tells Ahura Mazda that prosperity will come to all of humanity if they follow the religion he propagates. There is no exclusion here; “all of humanity” is the operative phrase. )Ha 46.19: Zarathustra tells his disciples: Whoso will help me with his sincere heart in my Prophetic Mission enthusiastically, his honor and fame will be enhanced after death and deserving reward will be granted to him in the world beyond.(Zarathustra talks about “Prophetic Mission”; he talks about heavenly rewards for those who actively convert as that is what Prophetic Mission means.)Ha 46.16: O Frashoshtra of the family of Hvova! Go thou thither together with those helpers whom we both have chosen for the benefits of the world.(Frashoshtra, a vizier of King Vishtaspa, converted to Zarathustra’s faith at the same time Vishtaspa did. Zarathustra married Frashoshtra’s daughter Havovi. Frashoshtra was a disciple who actively promulgated the prophet’s message. Again, note Zarathustra asks his disciple to spread his message for the “benefit of the world.”)Ha 49.9: That diligent (or intelligent) man born for benefiting the world will listen to the commandments of my religion.(Zarathustra calls out to the world to pay heed to his religion.)Ha 49.5: Whosoever in this world regards the Mazda worshiping Zoroastrian religion as the best through the good mind is the source of abundance and prosperity, O Ahura Mazda!(Zarathustra tells Ahura Mazda that prosperity will come to all of humanity if they follow the religion he propagates. There is no exclusion here; “all of humanity” is the operative phrase. )Ha 46.19: Zarathustra tells his disciples: Whoso will help me with his sincere heart in my Prophetic Mission enthusiastically, his honor and fame will be enhanced after death and deserving reward will be granted to him in the world beyond.(Zarathustra talks about “Prophetic Mission”; he talks about heavenly rewards for those who actively convert as that is what Prophetic Mission means.)Ha 46.16: O Frashoshtra of the family of Hvova! Go thou thither together with those helpers whom we both have chosen for the benefits of the world.(Frashoshtra, a vizier of King Vishtaspa, converted to Zarathustra’s faith at the same time Vishtaspa did. Zarathustra married Frashoshtra’s daughter Havovi. Frashoshtra was a disciple who actively promulgated the prophet’s message. Again, note Zarathustra asks his disciple to spread his message for the “benefit of the world.”)Ha 49.9: That diligent (or intelligent) man born for benefiting the world will listen to the commandments of my religion.(Zarathustra calls out to the world to pay heed to his religion.)Ha 49.5: Whosoever in this world regards the Mazda worshiping Zoroastrian religion as the best through the good mind is the source of abundance and prosperity, O Ahura Mazda!(Zarathustra tells Ahura Mazda that prosperity will come to all of humanity if they follow the religion he propagates. There is no exclusion here; “all of humanity” is the operative phrase. )Ha 46.19: Zarathustra tells his disciples: Whoso will help me with his sincere heart in my Prophetic Mission enthusiastically, his honor and fame will be enhanced after death and deserving reward will be granted to him in the world beyond.(Zarathustra talks about “Prophetic Mission”; he talks about heavenly rewards for those who actively convert as that is what Prophetic Mission means.)Ha 46.16: O Frashoshtra of the family of Hvova! Go thou thither together with those helpers whom we both have chosen for the benefits of the world.(Frashoshtra, a vizier of King Vishtaspa, converted to Zarathustra’s faith at the same time Vishtaspa did. Zarathustra married Frashoshtra’s daughter Havovi. Frashoshtra was a disciple who actively promulgated the prophet’s message. Again, note Zarathustra asks his disciple to spread his message for the “benefit of the world.”)Ha 49.9: That diligent (or intelligent) man born for benefiting the world will listen to the commandments of my religion.(Zarathustra calls out to the world to pay heed to his religion.)Ha 49.5: Whosoever in this world regards the Mazda worshiping Zoroastrian religion as the best through the good mind is the source of abundance and prosperity, O Ahura Mazda!(Zarathustra tells Ahura Mazda that prosperity will come to all of humanity if they follow the religion he propagates. There is no exclusion here; “all of humanity” is the operative phrase. )Ha 46.19: Zarathustra tells his disciples: Whoso will help me with his sincere heart in my Prophetic Mission enthusiastically, his honor and fame will be enhanced after death and deserving reward will be granted to him in the world beyond.(Zarathustra talks about “Prophetic Mission”; he talks about heavenly rewards for those who actively convert as that is what Prophetic Mission means.)Ha 46.16: O Frashoshtra of the family of Hvova! Go thou thither together with those helpers whom we both have chosen for the benefits of the world.(Frashoshtra, a vizier of King Vishtaspa, converted to Zarathustra’s faith at the same time Vishtaspa did. Zarathustra married Frashoshtra’s daughter Havovi. Frashoshtra was a disciple who actively promulgated the prophet’s message. Again, note Zarathustra asks his disciple to spread his message for the “benefit of the world.”)

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Dear Tor,

    You have hit the nail on the head. Those who decry conversion have no knowledge about the religion. When repeatedly asked to produce evidence to support their contention, they consistently produce nothing. Whatever anyone says, you are a Zoroastrian and nothing can change that. The dogs bark and the elephant keeps on walking (to quote a “learned” poster here) converting more and more people along the way!!
    The truth of the matter is that conversion is allowed and encouraged by our prophet Zarathustra. The Gathas are replete with directives from Zarathustra and Ahura Mazda to spread the religion far and wide. Let me share those with you. My personal comments are in parenthesis.

    Ha 49.9: That diligent (or intelligent man) born for benefiting the world will listen to the commandments of my religion.
    (Zarathustra asks the world to pay heed to his teachings)

    Ha 49.5: Whosoever in this world regards the Mazda worshipping Zoroastrian religion as the best through the good mind is the source of abundance and prosperity, O Ahura Mazda!
    (Zarathustra says that if people around the world follow his religion they will find prosperity.)

    Ha 46.19: Zarathustra tells his disciples: Whoso will help me with his sincere heart in my Prophetic Mission enthusiastically, his honor and fame will be enhanced, and deserving reward will be granted to him in the world beyond.
    (Prophetic Mission means spreading the religion; Prophetic Mission means actively converting people to the faith. The words cannot be more clear.)

    Ha 31.3: …Speak thou with the tongue of the mouth, O Ahura Mazda! For the enlightenment of me and my disciples so that I cause all men to put faith in the religion.
    (Zarathustra beseeches Ahura Mazda to help him in getting “all men”, meaning all of humanity, to follow his religion.)

    If you look at Ha 32.15; Ha 46.16; Ha 43.11; Ha 45.1; and Ha 43.7, you will find Zarathustra seeking help from God to promulgate the religion to all mankind. These are Gatha translations by the esteemed Avesta scholar Dastur Edalji Kavasji Kanga. Dastur Maneckji Nusserwanji Dhalla, a High Priest, has written volumes on Zoroastrianism where he proves that conversion is a practice encouraged in the faith. Never having read any book on the religion, they will refer to scholarly works presented as “Google material”; unable to argue intelligently, they will deride other people’s knowledge.

    Tor, those who speak against conversion are steeped in ignorance. They will twist words to foster the falsehoods entrenched in their mind. They will say things like the only choice allowed in Zoroastrianism is “the choice between good and evil” without producing any evidence to support that. Zoroastrianism is a religion of free choice in all aspects of life. There is no “Thou shalt not…” in Zoroastrianism. It is about using wisdom in the affairs of life; poor judgment or lack of wisdom will have consequences that the individual will have to bear. You will see many responses to this post saying “the Gathas cannot be followed.” The reasons given will be ludicrous. You will see warped arguments presented with no substantive proof. There will be some who will say they don’t need to read or need any proof. Why? Because they want to create a brand of Zoroastrianism that violates every tenet of our prophet’s teachings. They are eager to dismiss his words and create a faith that springs from their twisted beliefs. And they have the gall to call themselves Zoroastrian!

    I say, once again, Tor. Welcome to our great faith! (Zarathustra calls out to the world to pay heed to his religion.)Ha 49.5: Whosoever in this world regards the Mazda worshiping Zoroastrian religion as the best through the good mind is the source of abundance and prosperity, O Ahura Mazda!(Zarathustra tells Ahura Mazda that prosperity will come to all of humanity if they follow the religion he propagates. There is no exclusion here; “all of humanity” is the operative phrase. )Ha 49.9: That diligent (or intelligent) man born for benefiting the world will listen to the commandments of my religion.(Zarathustra calls out to the world to pay heed to his religion.)Ha 49.5: Whosoever in this world regards the Mazda worshiping Zoroastrian religion as the best through the good mind is the source of abundance and prosperity, O Ahura Mazda!(Zarathustra tells Ahura Mazda that prosperity will come to all of humanity if they follow the religion he propagates. There is no exclusion here; “all of humanity” is the operative phrase. )Ha 46.19: Zarathustra tells his disciples: Whoso will help me with his sincere heart in my Prophetic Mission enthusiastically, his honor and fame will be enhanced after death and deserving reward will be granted to him in the world beyond.(Zarathustra talks about “Prophetic Mission”; he talks about heavenly rewards for those who actively convert as that is what Prophetic Mission means.)Ha 46.16: O Frashoshtra of the family of Hvova! Go thou thither together with those helpers whom we both have chosen for the benefits of the world.(Frashoshtra, a vizier of King Vishtaspa, converted to Zarathustra’s faith at the same time Vishtaspa did. Zarathustra married Frashoshtra’s daughter Havovi. Frashoshtra was a disciple who actively promulgated the prophet’s message. Again, note Zarathustra asks his disciple to spread his message for the “benefit of the world.”)Ha 49.9: That diligent (or intelligent) man born for benefiting the world will listen to the commandments of my religion.(Zarathustra calls out to the world to pay heed to his religion.)Ha 49.5: Whosoever in this world regards the Mazda worshiping Zoroastrian religion as the best through the good mind is the source of abundance and prosperity, O Ahura Mazda!(Zarathustra tells Ahura Mazda that prosperity will come to all of humanity if they follow the religion he propagates. There is no exclusion here; “all of humanity” is the operative phrase. )Ha 46.19: Zarathustra tells his disciples: Whoso will help me with his sincere heart in my Prophetic Mission enthusiastically, his honor and fame will be enhanced after death and deserving reward will be granted to him in the world beyond.(Zarathustra talks about “Prophetic Mission”; he talks about heavenly rewards for those who actively convert as that is what Prophetic Mission means.)Ha 46.16: O Frashoshtra of the family of Hvova! Go thou thither together with those helpers whom we both have chosen for the benefits of the world.(Frashoshtra, a vizier of King Vishtaspa, converted to Zarathustra’s faith at the same time Vishtaspa did. Zarathustra married Frashoshtra’s daughter Havovi. Frashoshtra was a disciple who actively promulgated the prophet’s message. Again, note Zarathustra asks his disciple to spread his message for the “benefit of the world.”)Ha 49.9: That diligent (or intelligent) man born for benefiting the world will listen to the commandments of my religion.(Zarathustra calls out to the world to pay heed to his religion.)Ha 49.5: Whosoever in this world regards the Mazda worshiping Zoroastrian religion as the best through the good mind is the source of abundance and prosperity, O Ahura Mazda!(Zarathustra tells Ahura Mazda that prosperity will come to all of humanity if they follow the religion he propagates. There is no exclusion here; “all of humanity” is the operative phrase. )Ha 46.19: Zarathustra tells his disciples: Whoso will help me with his sincere heart in my Prophetic Mission enthusiastically, his honor and fame will be enhanced after death and deserving reward will be granted to him in the world beyond.(Zarathustra talks about “Prophetic Mission”; he talks about heavenly rewards for those who actively convert as that is what Prophetic Mission means.)Ha 46.16: O Frashoshtra of the family of Hvova! Go thou thither together with those helpers whom we both have chosen for the benefits of the world.(Frashoshtra, a vizier of King Vishtaspa, converted to Zarathustra’s faith at the same time Vishtaspa did. Zarathustra married Frashoshtra’s daughter Havovi. Frashoshtra was a disciple who actively promulgated the prophet’s message. Again, note Zarathustra asks his disciple to spread his message for the “benefit of the world.”)Ha 49.9: That diligent (or intelligent) man born for benefiting the world will listen to the commandments of my religion.(Zarathustra calls out to the world to pay heed to his religion.)Ha 49.5: Whosoever in this world regards the Mazda worshiping Zoroastrian religion as the best through the good mind is the source of abundance and prosperity, O Ahura Mazda!(Zarathustra tells Ahura Mazda that prosperity will come to all of humanity if they follow the religion he propagates. There is no exclusion here; “all of humanity” is the operative phrase. )Ha 46.19: Zarathustra tells his disciples: Whoso will help me with his sincere heart in my Prophetic Mission enthusiastically, his honor and fame will be enhanced after death and deserving reward will be granted to him in the world beyond.(Zarathustra talks about “Prophetic Mission”; he talks about heavenly rewards for those who actively convert as that is what Prophetic Mission means.)Ha 46.16: O Frashoshtra of the family of Hvova! Go thou thither together with those helpers whom we both have chosen for the benefits of the world.(Frashoshtra, a vizier of King Vishtaspa, converted to Zarathustra’s faith at the same time Vishtaspa did. Zarathustra married Frashoshtra’s daughter Havovi. Frashoshtra was a disciple who actively promulgated the prophet’s message. Again, note Zarathustra asks his disciple to spread his message for the “benefit of the world.”)

  • Phiroze

    bakra you are also one of them as you claim. So you are an accused too. What can you do about it besides posting????? Do you have the guts to face the Parsis for an open debate on any of these

  • Phiroze

    bakra you are also one of them as you claim. So you are an accused too. What can you do about it besides posting????? Do you have the guts to face the Parsis for an open debate on any of these

  • Phiroze

    Dear Meheryar, I did not know that you were a shepard and had a fold.

  • Phiroze

    Dear Meheryar, I did not know that you were a shepard and had a fold.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Grow up, Phiroze. Grow up.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Grow up, Phiroze. Grow up.

  • Hi Meheryar! Thx for your support. You are a very

    wise man. Yes I have investigated the good religion thouroghly. I also have a bachelor in textcritical analasys on the new testament. And this have given me the abilety to differ between shit and canel. When I started to study ancient persian history and came across Cyrus the greats human declaration I started to dig deeper and red all of the zoroastrian material I could get my hands on. When I read the respons here and also on other topics I was more or less chocked. How can it be possible that Parsis go against conversion, and not only that, but refusing children of mixed couples. I started to research the history of the Parsis and I it did not impress me to say the least. The ignorance and lack of knowledge historicly astound me. They had to be enlighten by european scholars and travel to Iran to understand their faith. Todays arrogance are in my opinion a financial matter. They have had access to the honeypot for so long so they have anxiety for the thought to share it with poor hindus who they see as competetors. The solution would ofcourse be to make sure that converts have deep knowlegde to the good religion and so part out those who only wants benefits. Keep your honeypot we in Europe dont care we dont need financial support., we are sincere about the good religion, when we pray we mean it. Thats how it works for converts, we are serious we dont care about money.

  • Hi Meheryar! Thx for your support. You are a very

    wise man. Yes I have investigated the good religion thouroghly. I also have a bachelor in textcritical analasys on the new testament. And this have given me the abilety to differ between shit and canel. When I started to study ancient persian history and came across Cyrus the greats human declaration I started to dig deeper and red all of the zoroastrian material I could get my hands on. When I read the respons here and also on other topics I was more or less chocked. How can it be possible that Parsis go against conversion, and not only that, but refusing children of mixed couples. I started to research the history of the Parsis and I it did not impress me to say the least. The ignorance and lack of knowledge historicly astound me. They had to be enlighten by european scholars and travel to Iran to understand their faith. Todays arrogance are in my opinion a financial matter. They have had access to the honeypot for so long so they have anxiety for the thought to share it with poor hindus who they see as competetors. The solution would ofcourse be to make sure that converts have deep knowlegde to the good religion and so part out those who only wants benefits. Keep your honeypot we in Europe dont care we dont need financial support., we are sincere about the good religion, when we pray we mean it. Thats how it works for converts, we are serious we dont care about money.

  • Barak Aga

    Dear Phiroze-Mahrukh

    Does your ilk have the guts to face the regime and reclaim Pars and Iran, for the Zoroastrians since you claim to be from that region?

  • Barak Aga

    Dear Phiroze-Mahrukh

    Does your ilk have the guts to face the regime and reclaim Pars and Iran, for the Zoroastrians since you claim to be from that region?

  • Arzan

    What did i say ? Mobeds nowadays will do anything for money. Paisa feko aur tamasha Dekho and that is what they are redueced too. They bring disgrace to our community.

  • Arzan

    What did i say ? Mobeds nowadays will do anything for money. Paisa feko aur tamasha Dekho and that is what they are redueced too. They bring disgrace to our community.

  • Arzan

    Mr Money bags – No need to show off that you are not dependent on charity and assuming that i am. Pl remember you got converted free and also got the sedrah and kusthi free. You are living on charity not me. We pay our mobeds for performing the ceremony unlike you.Mobeds in India and the world over will do anything for money even convert a donkey to Zarthoshti. No big deal Boss Paisa pheko aur tamasha dekho is the mantra of these conversion speacialist mobeds.
    As Meheryar says ‘ you have hit the nail on the head’ My friend it was meant for me but it hit bang on your head.

  • Arzan

    Mr Money bags – No need to show off that you are not dependent on charity and assuming that i am. Pl remember you got converted free and also got the sedrah and kusthi free. You are living on charity not me. We pay our mobeds for performing the ceremony unlike you.Mobeds in India and the world over will do anything for money even convert a donkey to Zarthoshti. No big deal Boss Paisa pheko aur tamasha dekho is the mantra of these conversion speacialist mobeds.
    As Meheryar says ‘ you have hit the nail on the head’ My friend it was meant for me but it hit bang on your head.

  • Arzan

    Mr Money bags – No need to show off that you are not dependent on charity and assuming that i am. Pl remember you got converted free and also got the sedrah and kusthi free. You are living on charity not me. We pay our mobeds for performing the ceremony unlike you.Mobeds in India and the world over will do anything for money even convert a donkey to Zarthoshti. No big deal Boss Paisa pheko aur tamasha dekho is the mantra of these conversion speacialist mobeds.
    As Meheryar says ‘ you have hit the nail on the head’ My friend it was meant for me but it hit bang on your head.

  • Arzan

    What is the source of your cut copy paste knowledge?

  • Arzan

    What is the source of your cut copy paste knowledge?

  • Arzan

    Your first line deserves an oscar ……. Truly as the saying goes Birds of a feather flock togather.

  • Arzan

    Your first line deserves an oscar ……. Truly as the saying goes Birds of a feather flock togather.

  • Let me tell you a story. There is a religion you may have heard about. Its called zorastrianism. It tells you to live your life according to Asha. Now this may come as a surprise to you, it means rightsuenesness. Its maybe a strange word for you, but listen. It mean that you should live your life according to three centenses. Good thought, good speech and good deeds. This may sound strange to you but its quite easy. This faith was brought to the world by the prophet Zaratushtra. He spread the message so the people converted to the good religion. Are you chocked? Well some of the zarathustrians moved to India and in time forgot this message. They felt so good about themselves so they adopted the local tradition of caste system and thought that the good religion was only for themselves. They turned away from Ahura Mazda and turned to Ahriman for advice. And they still belive that they are the only true belivers. They still live in a lie and are not able to see it. They have become so obsessed by themselves that they have forgotten that they live in the world. Poor people, they will be forgotten , they will be rememberd as semi hindus, they belonged to a religion called Parsi. When the religion of Zarathustra thrived they simply died out. Nobody will remember them,they dissapeard without a trace. But they at least felt good about themselves as long as they existed

  • Let me tell you a story. There is a religion you may have heard about. Its called zorastrianism. It tells you to live your life according to Asha. Now this may come as a surprise to you, it means rightsuenesness. Its maybe a strange word for you, but listen. It mean that you should live your life according to three centenses. Good thought, good speech and good deeds. This may sound strange to you but its quite easy. This faith was brought to the world by the prophet Zaratushtra. He spread the message so the people converted to the good religion. Are you chocked? Well some of the zarathustrians moved to India and in time forgot this message. They felt so good about themselves so they adopted the local tradition of caste system and thought that the good religion was only for themselves. They turned away from Ahura Mazda and turned to Ahriman for advice. And they still belive that they are the only true belivers. They still live in a lie and are not able to see it. They have become so obsessed by themselves that they have forgotten that they live in the world. Poor people, they will be forgotten , they will be rememberd as semi hindus, they belonged to a religion called Parsi. When the religion of Zarathustra thrived they simply died out. Nobody will remember them,they dissapeard without a trace. But they at least felt good about themselves as long as they existed

  • Let me tell you a story. There is a religion you may have heard about. Its called zorastrianism. It tells you to live your life according to Asha. Now this may come as a surprise to you, it means rightsuenesness. Its maybe a strange word for you, but listen. It mean that you should live your life according to three centenses. Good thought, good speech and good deeds. This may sound strange to you but its quite easy. This faith was brought to the world by the prophet Zaratushtra. He spread the message so the people converted to the good religion. Are you chocked? Well some of the zarathustrians moved to India and in time forgot this message. They felt so good about themselves so they adopted the local tradition of caste system and thought that the good religion was only for themselves. They turned away from Ahura Mazda and turned to Ahriman for advice. And they still belive that they are the only true belivers. They still live in a lie and are not able to see it. They have become so obsessed by themselves that they have forgotten that they live in the world. Poor people, they will be forgotten , they will be rememberd as semi hindus, they belonged to a religion called Parsi. When the religion of Zarathustra thrived they simply died out. Nobody will remember them,they dissapeard without a trace. But they at least felt good about themselves as long as they existed

  • It is called the Gathas. You should read it

  • It is called the Gathas. You should read it

  • It is called the Gathas. You should read it

  • Its sad that there is no prize for ignoranse. You would have swept the table

  • Its sad that there is no prize for ignoranse. You would have swept the table

  • Its sad that there is no prize for ignoranse. You would have swept the table

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    As Tor has indicated, it is the Gathas. It is not cut and paste as you imply. These are the Gatha translations by Ervad Kavasji Edalji Kanga. There was a technical glitch somewhere between my sending it out and the recipient’s inbox, hence the extra length. Sorry I inconvenienced you; will try and be cognizant of your short attention span in future posts.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    As Tor has indicated, it is the Gathas. It is not cut and paste as you imply. These are the Gatha translations by Ervad Kavasji Edalji Kanga. There was a technical glitch somewhere between my sending it out and the recipient’s inbox, hence the extra length. Sorry I inconvenienced you; will try and be cognizant of your short attention span in future posts.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Arzan, I don’t think you understand the idiom “hitting the nail on the head.” It was not meant for you or anybody. The idiom means you “have got it right”; it does not mean you or anyone is a nail! You have demonstrated your knowledge about our religion, now you are exhibiting your aptitude for the English language. As I said, keep your posts coming. They give me a good laugh. Thank you for that.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Arzan, I don’t think you understand the idiom “hitting the nail on the head.” It was not meant for you or anybody. The idiom means you “have got it right”; it does not mean you or anyone is a nail! You have demonstrated your knowledge about our religion, now you are exhibiting your aptitude for the English language. As I said, keep your posts coming. They give me a good laugh. Thank you for that.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    It’s a shame that the Oscar-winning line you so gracefully acknowledge will never be used on you. Thank you for the compliment. It is gracious of you to recognize your own limited worth.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    It’s a shame that the Oscar-winning line you so gracefully acknowledge will never be used on you. Thank you for the compliment. It is gracious of you to recognize your own limited worth.

  • KhoremandShahparast

    Torf brother, you are absolutely right. Parsicides like Arzan belong to the religion called PARSISM. Its nothing to do with MazdaYasni or Zoroastrianism. Any resemblance of Parsism with the religion of Zarathustra is purely coincidence.
    Parsicides [biological name for Parsi parasites living on Charity] like Arzan draw their inspiration from Islam. In Islam, muslims are allowed to Lie under the privilege of Al Taquiyya [to cover up]. In the same way, Parsism also allows falsehood. Its followers like Arzan shamelessly spread lies in spite of knowing that in age of information they will be exposed. The reason they lie is because they are insecure lot living off on doles, which is so apparent from their comments. Just like Muslims, they inbreed and that explains their sorry mental state . Even the Chief Minister of Gujarat openly called them ‘ the source of entertainment for other Indians’. So Arzan is not the only one who can entertain you… If you visit India before they go extinct….you will get a whole lot of them talking nonsense like Arzan

  • KhoremandShahparast

    Torf brother, you are absolutely right. Parsicides like Arzan belong to the religion called PARSISM. Its nothing to do with MazdaYasni or Zoroastrianism. Any resemblance of Parsism with the religion of Zarathustra is purely coincidence.
    Parsicides [biological name for Parsi parasites living on Charity] like Arzan draw their inspiration from Islam. In Islam, muslims are allowed to Lie under the privilege of Al Taquiyya [to cover up]. In the same way, Parsism also allows falsehood. Its followers like Arzan shamelessly spread lies in spite of knowing that in age of information they will be exposed. The reason they lie is because they are insecure lot living off on doles, which is so apparent from their comments. Just like Muslims, they inbreed and that explains their sorry mental state . Even the Chief Minister of Gujarat openly called them ‘ the source of entertainment for other Indians’. So Arzan is not the only one who can entertain you… If you visit India before they go extinct….you will get a whole lot of them talking nonsense like Arzan

  • KhoremandShahparast

    Torf brother, you are absolutely right. Parsicides like Arzan belong to the religion called PARSISM. Its nothing to do with MazdaYasni or Zoroastrianism. Any resemblance of Parsism with the religion of Zarathustra is purely coincidence.
    Parsicides [biological name for Parsi parasites living on Charity] like Arzan draw their inspiration from Islam. In Islam, muslims are allowed to Lie under the privilege of Al Taquiyya [to cover up]. In the same way, Parsism also allows falsehood. Its followers like Arzan shamelessly spread lies in spite of knowing that in age of information they will be exposed. The reason they lie is because they are insecure lot living off on doles, which is so apparent from their comments. Just like Muslims, they inbreed and that explains their sorry mental state . Even the Chief Minister of Gujarat openly called them ‘ the source of entertainment for other Indians’. So Arzan is not the only one who can entertain you… If you visit India before they go extinct….you will get a whole lot of them talking nonsense like Arzan

  • KhoremandShahparast

    Arzan, you have the audacity to ask for source from Meheryar.. when you have provided none to support your ignorant beliefs ?

  • KhoremandShahparast

    Arzan, you have the audacity to ask for source from Meheryar.. when you have provided none to support your ignorant beliefs ?

  • Phiroze

    Whatever you say BOSS!!!!!!

  • Phiroze

    Whatever you say BOSS!!!!!!

  • Phiroze

    Dear Meheryar, HA 49.5 Why did the Parsis prosper even though the Parsis have not followed conversion since coming to India?

  • Phiroze

    Dear Meheryar, HA 49.5 Why did the Parsis prosper even though the Parsis have not followed conversion since coming to India?

  • Phiroze

    Torf, The Parsis prospered in India because they followed Zarathustra and did not convert while those in Iran who got converted are still depending on likes of you for statistics / numbers.

  • Phiroze

    Torf, The Parsis prospered in India because they followed Zarathustra and did not convert while those in Iran who got converted are still depending on likes of you for statistics / numbers.

  • Phiroze

    Torf, if you are not impressed with Parsi history what are you doing wasting your time here on PARSI KHABAR. Parsis are not impressed by you either since you have to depend on charity for your Sudreh and Kusti too. Get the hell out of here

  • Phiroze

    Torf, if you are not impressed with Parsi history what are you doing wasting your time here on PARSI KHABAR. Parsis are not impressed by you either since you have to depend on charity for your Sudreh and Kusti too. Get the hell out of here

  • Rustom

    @ Gustad
    A christian wedding also undertakes in writing from the non christian spouce that the offsprings will be brought up as christians only….This especially very profound in India…The church actually would prefer the non catholic spouse to also convert but many a times hindu/Islamic/Jew spouses refuse and thus a strategy wherein the choice of the non catholic spouse is shown to be respected?? yet an undertaking is taken that the children will definately be brought up as catholics.

    This signature is also downplayed many times untill the non christian spouse wants to bring up his children according to his faith.

  • Rustom

    @ Gustad
    A christian wedding also undertakes in writing from the non christian spouce that the offsprings will be brought up as christians only….This especially very profound in India…The church actually would prefer the non catholic spouse to also convert but many a times hindu/Islamic/Jew spouses refuse and thus a strategy wherein the choice of the non catholic spouse is shown to be respected?? yet an undertaking is taken that the children will definately be brought up as catholics.

    This signature is also downplayed many times untill the non christian spouse wants to bring up his children according to his faith.

  • Phiroze

    Torf, only those Parsis who put themselves before their religion (GOD) sought out european scholars and travelled to Iran to forget their faith. Today the poor not only Hindus but Muslims and Christans enjoy PARSI CHARITY more than PArsis. Your sudreh/poosi might be also indirectly subsidised by PARSI CHARITY. So just go away

  • Phiroze

    Torf, only those Parsis who put themselves before their religion (GOD) sought out european scholars and travelled to Iran to forget their faith. Today the poor not only Hindus but Muslims and Christans enjoy PARSI CHARITY more than PArsis. Your sudreh/poosi might be also indirectly subsidised by PARSI CHARITY. So just go away

  • Phiroze

    You are the idiot here!!!!

  • Phiroze

    You are the idiot here!!!!

  • Phiroze

    Torf for you there is a book called Bible You should read it too!!!!!!

  • Phiroze

    Torf for you there is a book called Bible You should read it too!!!!!!

  • Phiroze

    bakra, we don’t need to. Zoroastrianism is finished in Iran. We have left that for parjats like you.

  • Phiroze

    Dear Meheryar, If Zarathustra tells Ahura MAzda that Prosperity……………He propagates. Does this mean that Zarathustra was revealing the religion to Ahura Mazda???? I thought it was the other way around. But then I am not a western scholar am I????? 🙂

  • Phiroze

    Dear Meheryar, If Zarathustra tells Ahura MAzda that Prosperity……………He propagates. Does this mean that Zarathustra was revealing the religion to Ahura Mazda???? I thought it was the other way around. But then I am not a western scholar am I????? 🙂

  • Phiroze

    Torf, we will keep the honey you keep the POT!!!!!

  • Hi Meheryar! Isnt it sad that I a simple
    norwegian have to point out for Arzan that it was the Gathas?

  • Hi Meheryar! Isnt it sad that I a simple
    norwegian have to point out for Arzan that it was the Gathas?

  • Bryam.

    I agree with Arzan about the priestly class. But just to refresh Arzan’s memory, the ‘pionerr’ in this activity was none other than one who got 2 Flats and a monthly pension for conversion.

  • Bryam.

    I agree with Arzan about the priestly class. But just to refresh Arzan’s memory, the ‘pionerr’ in this activity was none other than one who got 2 Flats and a monthly pension for conversion.

  • You are busy now I see he he. I have read the Bible, I actually have a bachelor degree i textual critic on the New Testament. And I also have read the Gathas, I read it every day. It seems to me that the Gathas for you are only some letters, because you probobly have not read it. Otherwise you would have referred to it. Its only one solution for you ignorance, start reading the Gathas

  • You are busy now I see he he. I have read the Bible, I actually have a bachelor degree i textual critic on the New Testament. And I also have read the Gathas, I read it every day. It seems to me that the Gathas for you are only some letters, because you probobly have not read it. Otherwise you would have referred to it. Its only one solution for you ignorance, start reading the Gathas

  • Thx! I consider that as a comment coming from you

  • Thx! I consider that as a complement coming from you

  • @687bf9f8fdfc290f3a6016a27b5067ec:disqus I,m here because of inspite of you there are some very wise people here. Got it?

  • @687bf9f8fdfc290f3a6016a27b5067ec:disqus I,m here because of inspite of you there are some very wise people here. Got it?

  • Well, they sought the truth about the good religion opposite to you.

  • Well, they sought the truth about the good religion opposite to you.

  • I live in the richest country in the world pr. capita. I dont need or want your honey. I just keeping the good religion in my heart. Dont worry about me, I,m fine

  • I live in the richest country in the world pr. capita. I dont need or want your honey. I just keeping the good religion in my heart. Dont worry about me, I,m fine

  • Well in the mid 1800 hundreds there was a wave of conversians in India, read your history! You were lucky to arrive in a country that did not opress you, you even was infuenced by the local religion, Hinduism. The zoroastrians in Iran were opressed and cherised their religion so much that they kept it intact inspite of the persecutions. You are showing an ignorance wich are interessting. You should be scrutinised by researchers to find the origin of your ignorance. Does it come from your socalled zoroastrian education? Are the Parsi religion compatible with zoroastrianism? I guess some of the real zoroastrians here can answer the question

  • Well in the mid 1800 hundreds there was a wave of conversians in India, read your history! You were lucky to arrive in a country that did not opress you, you even was infuenced by the local religion, Hinduism. The zoroastrians in Iran were opressed and cherised their religion so much that they kept it intact inspite of the persecutions. You are showing an ignorance wich are interessting. You should be scrutinised by researchers to find the origin of your ignorance. Does it come from your socalled zoroastrian education? Are the Parsi religion compatible with zoroastrianism? I guess some of the real zoroastrians here can answer the question

  • Well in the mid 1800 hundreds there was a wave of conversians in India, read your history! You were lucky to arrive in a country that did not opress you, you even was infuenced by the local religion, Hinduism. The zoroastrians in Iran were opressed and cherised their religion so much that they kept it intact inspite of the persecutions. You are showing an ignorance wich are interessting. You should be scrutinised by researchers to find the origin of your ignorance. Does it come from your socalled zoroastrian education? Are the Parsi religion compatible with zoroastrianism? I guess some of the real zoroastrians here can answer the question

  • To the moderator!

    I dont wish to offend anyone here. But I have to answer attacs and hope I dont cross the line. Please inform if you think I do so

  • To the moderator!

    I dont wish to offend anyone here. But I have to answer attacs and hope I dont cross the line. Please inform if you think I do so

  • This is an open thread, so pretty much everything goes. However no personal attacks on people, or communities, or countries etc. Most of those are out of limits here.

  • This is an open thread, so pretty much everything goes. However no personal attacks on people, or communities, or countries etc. Most of those are out of limits here.

  • Rémi

    @Phiroze:twitter : Any element to disclose proving that Zoroastrianism is finished in Iran? Or do you really think that everyone will believe you on blind faith?

    By the way, ever heard of the “wilfully blind” and “wilfully deaf”?

  • Rémi

    @Phiroze:twitter : Any element to disclose proving that Zoroastrianism is finished in Iran? Or do you really think that everyone will believe you on blind faith?

    By the way, ever heard of the “wilfully blind” and “wilfully deaf”?

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Dear Tor,

    Please ignore the torrent of invective unleashed on you. You have many supporters on this site and I do want to add that you honor many Zoroastrians around the world by accepting our faith. You must have seen some intrinsic value in our religion that attracted you to it. I am very disheartened to see the ugliness towards one who of his own free will chose to follow our great religion. The uncharitable words and response to a great decision you made is beyond my understanding.
    You would think that there would be a sense of pride and joy among Zoroastrians that those not born in the faith can see the beauty in our religion and want to follow it. It is unfortunate that some born within the faith have so much malice towards those who embrace our religion. It can only mean they have malice towards our religion. They are not Zoroastrians.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Dear Tor,

    Please ignore the torrent of invective unleashed on you. You have many supporters on this site and I do want to add that you honor many Zoroastrians around the world by accepting our faith. You must have seen some intrinsic value in our religion that attracted you to it. I am very disheartened to see the ugliness towards one who of his own free will chose to follow our great religion. The uncharitable words and response to a great decision you made is beyond my understanding.
    You would think that there would be a sense of pride and joy among Zoroastrians that those not born in the faith can see the beauty in our religion and want to follow it. It is unfortunate that some born within the faith have so much malice towards those who embrace our religion. It can only mean they have malice towards our religion. They are not Zoroastrians.

  • Barak Aga

    If “Parsi” is a race, why don’t all “Parsis” have the same physical characteristics.

    People of a race always have the same physical characteristics :
    The same complexion.
    Approximately the same height.
    The same hair colour and eye colour.

    BPP Chairman Dinshaw Mehta, and WAPIZ member Areez Khambata have a swarthy complexion.
    BPP Trustee Khojeste Mistree has a fair complexion.

    If both are from the “Parsi” race, why this difference?

  • Barak Aga

    If “Parsi” is a race, why don’t all “Parsis” have the same physical characteristics.

    People of a race always have the same physical characteristics :
    The same complexion.
    Approximately the same height.
    The same hair colour and eye colour.

    BPP Chairman Dinshaw Mehta, and WAPIZ member Areez Khambata have a swarthy complexion.
    BPP Trustee Khojeste Mistree has a fair complexion.

    If both are from the “Parsi” race, why this difference?

  • Daisy Daruwalla

    Thank u so much for clarifying the point. At least now I can argue with my friend that our religion is indeed unique and its piousness is upheld by all and sundry. Then how come our very own Zarthosties fail to respect its requirements?

  • Daisy Daruwalla

    Thank u so much for clarifying the point. At least now I can argue with my friend that our religion is indeed unique and its piousness is upheld by all and sundry. Then how come our very own Zarthosties fail to respect its requirements?

  • Phiroze

    bakra, people like you had corrupted the religion hence Ahura MAzda sent Zarathustra to reform it. As Zarathustra was doing Ahura Mazda’s work he liked the religion very much.

  • Phiroze

    bakra, people like you had corrupted the religion hence Ahura MAzda sent Zarathustra to reform it. As Zarathustra was doing Ahura Mazda’s work he liked the religion very much.

  • Phiroze

    That is why you can hold our pot!!!!!!!

  • Phiroze

    That is why you can hold our pot!!!!!!!

  • Phiroze

    Why you are wiser than GOD too!!!! You made the correct choice after all. When will you get it??????

  • Phiroze

    See I told you!!!!!!

  • Phiroze

    Why you are wiser than GOD too!!!! You made the correct choice after all. When will you get it??????

  • Phiroze

    See I told you!!!!!!

  • Phiroze

    So that makes Gathas better then Bible or the Koran. Hope a christian or a muslim is reading this.

  • Phiroze

    So that makes Gathas better then Bible or the Koran. Hope a christian or a muslim is reading this.

  • Phiroze

    Torf, converts then and now are nothing but statistics You are now a number in the counting game. When you give up your religion you get a number. live with it now.

  • Phiroze

    Torf, converts then and now are nothing but statistics You are now a number in the counting game. When you give up your religion you get a number. live with it now.

  • Phiroze

    Torf, converts then and now are nothing but statistics You are now a number in the counting game. When you give up your religion you get a number. live with it now.

  • Phiroze

    Torf, when you poke your dirty nose in other community’s religion you will be attacked. Go away if you don’t like it. The moderator knows what to do.

  • Phiroze

    Torf, when you poke your dirty nose in other community’s religion you will be attacked. Go away if you don’t like it. The moderator knows what to do.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Phiroze, Tor is not making any such assertions. Please stop this nasty habit of putting words in people’s mouth.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Phiroze, Tor is not making any such assertions. Please stop this nasty habit of putting words in people’s mouth.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Phiroze, your staement is as ludicrous as any other you put here. Tor made a conscious choice using his God given free will. It has nothing to do with knowing more or less than God.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Phiroze, your staement is as ludicrous as any other you put here. Tor made a conscious choice using his God given free will. It has nothing to do with knowing more or less than God.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Tor, are you on facebook? Please search me if you are. Thanks.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Tor, are you on facebook? Please search me if you are. Thanks.

  • Barak Aga

    Pheroza,

    You have a Holier-than-thou attitude.

    “Nargolis” should not poke their noses in the affairs of Mumbai Zoroastrians.

    It is Mumbai Zoroastrians who took the community to great heights

    Outsiders have no business meddling in our affairs.

  • Barak Aga

    Pheroza,

    You have a Holier-than-thou attitude.

    “Nargolis” should not poke their noses in the affairs of Mumbai Zoroastrians.

    It is Mumbai Zoroastrians who took the community to great heights

    Outsiders have no business meddling in our affairs.

  • Barak Aga

    Dear EditorA while ago, one “Pheroza” taunted, “Let us see some action. Just words, words, words”
    Here’s the action that has unfolded :
    1) The Russian gentleman Chistyakov was initiated to the Zoroastrian faith.2) Mr. Chistyakov is back in Sanjan, and on the verge of being initiated in to priesthood, under Court protection.3) In Europe, Iran, Argentina, many are being initiated in to the Zoroastrian faith.4) Roshni Malloo performed the navjotes of the “D’Souza” children.4) One Mrs Simone Chogle, wife of Mr. Samir Chogle, performed the navjotes / sudreh pushin ceremony, of their daughter Alysha Chogle on 1 April 2011 and their son Zend Chogle on 27 January 2005. (God bless them. Congratulations)5) Priestly families turned their back on Dasturji Feroze Kotwal. Only 4 students remain in his MF Cama Athornan Institute.6) Annually 33% to 44% of “Parsis” take a “non-Parsi” spouse.7) The Mumbai High Court blasted the BPP-WAPIZ in the matter over the case of the 2 priests.

    The IRON CURTAIN erected by the pseudo-orthodox is crumbling.

  • Barak Aga

    Dear EditorA while ago, one “Pheroza” taunted, “Let us see some action. Just words, words, words”
    Here’s the action that has unfolded :
    1) The Russian gentleman Chistyakov was initiated to the Zoroastrian faith.2) Mr. Chistyakov is back in Sanjan, and on the verge of being initiated in to priesthood, under Court protection.3) In Europe, Iran, Argentina, many are being initiated in to the Zoroastrian faith.4) Roshni Malloo performed the navjotes of the “D’Souza” children.4) One Mrs Simone Chogle, wife of Mr. Samir Chogle, performed the navjotes / sudreh pushin ceremony, of their daughter Alysha Chogle on 1 April 2011 and their son Zend Chogle on 27 January 2005. (God bless them. Congratulations)5) Priestly families turned their back on Dasturji Feroze Kotwal. Only 4 students remain in his MF Cama Athornan Institute.6) Annually 33% to 44% of “Parsis” take a “non-Parsi” spouse.7) The Mumbai High Court blasted the BPP-WAPIZ in the matter over the case of the 2 priests.

    The IRON CURTAIN erected by the pseudo-orthodox is crumbling.

  • Phiroze!

    I have never left christianity because I have never been a christian. Read this. Yasna 30: 2 and get enlightend.

    2. Hearken with your ears to these best counsels, Reflect upon them with illumined judgment. Let each one choose his creed with that freedom of choice each must have at great events. O ye, be awake to these, my announcements

  • Phiroze!

    I have never left christianity because I have never been a christian. Read this. Yasna 30: 2 and get enlightend.

    2. Hearken with your ears to these best counsels, Reflect upon them with illumined judgment. Let each one choose his creed with that freedom of choice each must have at great events. O ye, be awake to these, my announcements

  • Even the wisest man cannot convince a fool

  • Even the wisest man cannot convince a fool

  • You are using strawman argument. No intelligent person who engages in a discussion use a cheap trick like this. I rest my case

  • You are using strawman argument. No intelligent person who engages in a discussion use a cheap trick like this. I rest my case

  • You are using strawman argument. No intelligent person who engages in a discussion use a cheap trick like this. I rest my case

  • The reason I choosed the good religion came after years of studying Zarathustras teachings. I did exactly what Zarathustra urge us to do. From the Gathas translated by J.D Irani:

    Yasna 30:2 Hearken with your ears to these best counsels, Reflect upon them with illumined judgment. Let each one choose his creed with that freedom of choice each must have at great events. O ye, be awake to these, my announcements

    This is not a message to a few chosen, but for all mankind. Those who do not understand this wise advice will have problems to understand a lot more of the prophet teachings

  • The reason I choosed the good religion came after years of studying Zarathustras teachings. I did exactly what Zarathustra urge us to do. From the Gathas translated by J.D Irani:

    Yasna 30:2 Hearken with your ears to these best counsels, Reflect upon them with illumined judgment. Let each one choose his creed with that freedom of choice each must have at great events. O ye, be awake to these, my announcements

    This is not a message to a few chosen, but for all mankind. Those who do not understand this wise advice will have problems to understand a lot more of the prophet teachings

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Yes, Tor, wonderful. I have shared this strophe with others before. They are selective in what they want to know and observe. Look at the other posts; there is agreement when it suits their agenda, but they don’t realize the quotes are taken out of context.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Yes, Tor, wonderful. I have shared this strophe with others before. They are selective in what they want to know and observe. Look at the other posts; there is agreement when it suits their agenda, but they don’t realize the quotes are taken out of context.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Tor, you are making a generous gesture here. You are assuming the cheap trick came from an intelligent source.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Tor, you are making a generous gesture here. You are assuming the cheap trick came from an intelligent source.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Tor, the inability to understand is very apparent here. The questions raised are infantile; the statements made are asinine and the ability to grasp meaningful concepts is totally absent. As my friend Rathestar said, who cares what they think. Change is on its way. It is happening. We do not need to worry about their caring what we do and think. In fact, we don’t want them to care what we think and do. They will still be howling as we march forward and bring Zoroastrianism back to its zenith.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Tor, the inability to understand is very apparent here. The questions raised are infantile; the statements made are asinine and the ability to grasp meaningful concepts is totally absent. As my friend Rathestar said, who cares what they think. Change is on its way. It is happening. We do not need to worry about their caring what we do and think. In fact, we don’t want them to care what we think and do. They will still be howling as we march forward and bring Zoroastrianism back to its zenith.

  • I have only one thing to say. As far as I have been informed you are a learned priest. The language you use and your argumentation is totally unaccepteble for a man who are in the position to advice others. As I see it, its a digrace that priests with this kind of language and attitude towards other people are allowed to be priests. I hope you do not practise, in that case its a mucking of the good religion.

  • I have only one thing to say. As far as I have been informed you are a learned priest. The language you use and your argumentation is totally unaccepteble for a man who are in the position to advice others. As I see it, its a digrace that priests with this kind of language and attitude towards other people are allowed to be priests. I hope you do not practise, in that case its a mucking of the good religion.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    The Parsis in India did convert. There is historical evidence for that. Since you have discovered a new author, Mary Boyce, you may want to enlighten yourself. Pull your head out of the sand. Conversions took place in India; hushed, maybe, but conversions, nevertheless.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    The Parsis in India did convert. There is historical evidence for that. Since you have discovered a new author, Mary Boyce, you may want to enlighten yourself. Pull your head out of the sand. Conversions took place in India; hushed, maybe, but conversions, nevertheless.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Excellent point, Remi. When Phiroze says Zoroastrianism is dead in Iran, he is talking about his corrupted brand of Zoroastrianism. That brand is dead; if it is not dead, it should be killed. Zoroastrianism as the civilized world knows and understands is well, alive and thriving. The true principles of Zoroastrianism are proliferating all over the world.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Excellent point, Remi. When Phiroze says Zoroastrianism is dead in Iran, he is talking about his corrupted brand of Zoroastrianism. That brand is dead; if it is not dead, it should be killed. Zoroastrianism as the civilized world knows and understands is well, alive and thriving. The true principles of Zoroastrianism are proliferating all over the world.

  • Zerxes.

    Please desist usage of word ORTHODOX while referring to DHONGEES. Thats an imperative ‘request’ as it tantamounts to complimenting the rogues and dole recipients.

  • Zerxes.

    Please desist usage of word ORTHODOX while referring to DHONGEES. Thats an imperative ‘request’ as it tantamounts to complimenting the rogues and dole recipients.

  • Phiroze

    OOOO!!!! the bakra is running to the editors. Go and hide in a hole in Golanji hill like the rat you are if you cannot stand by what you post. What on navjote in 2005, one in 2009 and one in 2011. Does one swallow a spring make?

  • Phiroze

    OOOO!!!! the bakra is running to the editors. Go and hide in a hole in Golanji hill like the rat you are if you cannot stand by what you post. What on navjote in 2005, one in 2009 and one in 2011. Does one swallow a spring make?

  • Phiroze

    Bakra all the mumbai zoors are from gujarat and nargol. You are the parjat outsider of golanji hills Check your family history again.

  • Phiroze

    Bakra all the mumbai zoors are from gujarat and nargol. You are the parjat outsider of golanji hills Check your family history again.

  • Phiroze

    Daisy, the biggest threat to our religion is from these european translated version of Gatha spouting born again zoros. Wherever and whenever you come across such challenge them to come face to face and see how they run to their holes in golanji hill.

  • Phiroze

    Daisy, the biggest threat to our religion is from these european translated version of Gatha spouting born again zoros. Wherever and whenever you come across such challenge them to come face to face and see how they run to their holes in golanji hill.

  • Phiroze

    @ remi, have you seen or heard any new zoroastrian institution built in Iran in the last as many years as you like? Tell me who is now WILFULLY BLIND AND DEAF!!!!???????? Instead whatever left have become tourists spots for visitors from Europe.

  • Phiroze

    @ remi, have you seen or heard any new zoroastrian institution built in Iran in the last as many years as you like? Tell me who is now WILFULLY BLIND AND DEAF!!!!???????? Instead whatever left have become tourists spots for visitors from Europe.

  • Phiroze

    @ remi, have you seen or heard any new zoroastrian institution built in Iran in the last as many years as you like? Tell me who is now WILFULLY BLIND AND DEAF!!!!???????? Instead whatever left have become tourists spots for visitors from Europe.

  • Contradhongi

    To, Barak,& Meheryar,
    My pertinent question to you both specifically. Is this Phiroze an Officially appointed Spokesperson of a) B.P.P.
    b) Of so called orthodox..c) Is he an an authority on our Religion?
    Does he have the ability to distinguish between Tradition and Dogma?. You both are wasting your time. Thats the plainspeak.

  • Contradhongi

    To, Barak,& Meheryar,
    My pertinent question to you both specifically. Is this Phiroze an Officially appointed Spokesperson of a) B.P.P.
    b) Of so called orthodox..c) Is he an an authority on our Religion?
    Does he have the ability to distinguish between Tradition and Dogma?. You both are wasting your time. Thats the plainspeak.

  • Barak Aga

    Dear Editor,
    A while ago, exhortations were made to the “Parsis” to follow the example of the Dawoodi Bohra community.
    Given below are excerpts from a report prepared by a 2 member committee : Chief Justice of Calcutta High Court, D.S. Tewatia and the president of the Citizens for Democracy, Kuldip Nayar, in 1993.
    This report is of relevance to the Zoroastrians of India too

    ————————————————————————————————————————
    ‘Report on Violation of Human Rights of Dawoodi Bohras’. Prepared by the two-member inquiry commission comprising of the former Chief Justice of Calcutta High Court, D.S. Tewatia and the president of the Citizens for Democracy, Kuldip Nayar, in 1993.

    ‘In the name of religion and God, he (Syedna Burhanuddin, supreme head priest of the Bohra community) has structured an ungodly, irreligious and inhuman order, the likes of which will shame even the most despotic rulers.

    That he continues to defy even the minimum norms of free expression and freedom in an open democratic society like India is a slur on the nation and that he does it with impunity is a challenge to every thinking person.’

    Even the inability to pay one of the numerous ‘taxes’ the high priest imposes on his followers, from birth to death, can invite a cruel ex-communication following which all other Bohras — mother, father, wife/husband, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, close relatives, friends and business associates – are required to snap all ties with the victim of the firman.

  • Barak Aga

    Dear Editor,
    A while ago, exhortations were made to the “Parsis” to follow the example of the Dawoodi Bohra community.
    Given below are excerpts from a report prepared by a 2 member committee : Chief Justice of Calcutta High Court, D.S. Tewatia and the president of the Citizens for Democracy, Kuldip Nayar, in 1993.
    This report is of relevance to the Zoroastrians of India too

    ————————————————————————————————————————
    ‘Report on Violation of Human Rights of Dawoodi Bohras’. Prepared by the two-member inquiry commission comprising of the former Chief Justice of Calcutta High Court, D.S. Tewatia and the president of the Citizens for Democracy, Kuldip Nayar, in 1993.

    ‘In the name of religion and God, he (Syedna Burhanuddin, supreme head priest of the Bohra community) has structured an ungodly, irreligious and inhuman order, the likes of which will shame even the most despotic rulers.

    That he continues to defy even the minimum norms of free expression and freedom in an open democratic society like India is a slur on the nation and that he does it with impunity is a challenge to every thinking person.’

    Even the inability to pay one of the numerous ‘taxes’ the high priest imposes on his followers, from birth to death, can invite a cruel ex-communication following which all other Bohras — mother, father, wife/husband, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, close relatives, friends and business associates – are required to snap all ties with the victim of the firman.

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Phiroze is wrong as usual. Not all translations are by European scholars. Ervad Kavasji Edalji Kanga, Ervad Sorab Pestonjee Kanga, Tehmurasp Sethna, D. J. Irani are not Europeans, but very much “Parsi”. Speaking of European scholars, here is what Dasturji Kavasji Kanga has to say about them in his book “Travels in India”:
    “It has been with the study of Zend as it has been with the studu of the inscriptions and architecture of the caves. Philogical light has in the former, as magnesium light in the latter, illumined many dark places in the structure of Zend, and in the philosophy and ethics of Zoroaster. For this we are indebted to European scholars who have been and are the only expounders of the Zend Avesta.”
    These words are from an esteemed, knowledgable dastur. If we disregard him, who is next on the chopping block?

    Ask Phiroze to produce a translation that HE considers authentic. He cannot. The translations may differ in phraseology, but the central idea is the same in each and everyone.

    If we ignore the Gatha translations, regardless of the source, then what are we basing our beliefs on? The Gathas are the foundation of our religion. Without the extant Gatha translations, we do not have a religion!

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Phiroze is wrong as usual. Not all translations are by European scholars. Ervad Kavasji Edalji Kanga, Ervad Sorab Pestonjee Kanga, Tehmurasp Sethna, D. J. Irani are not Europeans, but very much “Parsi”. Speaking of European scholars, here is what Dasturji Kavasji Kanga has to say about them in his book “Travels in India”:
    “It has been with the study of Zend as it has been with the studu of the inscriptions and architecture of the caves. Philogical light has in the former, as magnesium light in the latter, illumined many dark places in the structure of Zend, and in the philosophy and ethics of Zoroaster. For this we are indebted to European scholars who have been and are the only expounders of the Zend Avesta.”
    These words are from an esteemed, knowledgable dastur. If we disregard him, who is next on the chopping block?

    Ask Phiroze to produce a translation that HE considers authentic. He cannot. The translations may differ in phraseology, but the central idea is the same in each and everyone.

    If we ignore the Gatha translations, regardless of the source, then what are we basing our beliefs on? The Gathas are the foundation of our religion. Without the extant Gatha translations, we do not have a religion!

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Zerxes, you are right. The orthodox really are the ones who want to preserve the religion as originally given to us by our prophet. Orthodox is a gross misnomer for the dhongees who want to corrupt the religion in the name of orthodoxy!

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    Zerxes, you are right. The orthodox really are the ones who want to preserve the religion as originally given to us by our prophet. Orthodox is a gross misnomer for the dhongees who want to corrupt the religion in the name of orthodoxy!

  • Rémi

    Could you explain how you can infer the “vitality” of Zoroastrianism (either in India or in Iran) from the number of new institution built? Because even if new institutions are built in India, Parsis are still a dwindling community there.

    You can despise their way of practising Z’ism, but you’ll have to provide solid proofs if you want to label them “non-Zoroastrians”.

  • Rémi

    Could you explain how you can infer the “vitality” of Zoroastrianism (either in India or in Iran) from the number of new institution built? Because even if new institutions are built in India, Parsis are still a dwindling community there.

    You can despise their way of practising Z’ism, but you’ll have to provide solid proofs if you want to label them “non-Zoroastrians”.

  • Fagerhaug

    Keep your pot too who cares

  • Fagerhaug

    Keep your pot too who cares

  • Rémi

    If some want to practice this “corrupted brand of Zoroastrianism”, that’s their own choice. But just as Phiroze can’t label Z in Iran as finished, I feel that’s not a smart move to resort to the same tactics and call “That brand is dead” or “it should be killed”.

  • Rémi

    If some want to practice this “corrupted brand of Zoroastrianism”, that’s their own choice. But just as Phiroze can’t label Z in Iran as finished, I feel that’s not a smart move to resort to the same tactics and call “That brand is dead” or “it should be killed”.

  • Mehernaaz (Parsi Khabar)

    Daisy, I was there, doing duty to control the throngs of people who had come to worship that day. When Mr. Modi came, the gates of the Iranshah were shut and locked. He stood outside the gates, offered a piece of sukhar to Vada Dasturji Khurshed Dastur, bowed his head in obeisance and left. 
    And with more than a 1000 people standing inside looking at him do this, there is no chance he would ever have been allowed inside. 
    You may want to tell them these details if asked for. 

  • Mehernaaz (Parsi Khabar)

    Daisy, I was there, doing duty to control the throngs of people who had come to worship that day. When Mr. Modi came, the gates of the Iranshah were shut and locked. He stood outside the gates, offered a piece of sukhar to Vada Dasturji Khurshed Dastur, bowed his head in obeisance and left. 
    And with more than a 1000 people standing inside looking at him do this, there is no chance he would ever have been allowed inside. 
    You may want to tell them these details if asked for. 

  • BEHROZE.

    This fellow is not even a registered voter in B.P.P. Voter’s List, yet talks about the 2008 Elections. I assume all Parsees are included in the said B.P.P. Voter’s List.  

  • BEHROZE.

    This fellow is not even a registered voter in B.P.P. Voter’s List, yet talks about the 2008 Elections. I assume all Parsees are included in the said B.P.P. Voter’s List.  

  • Phiroze

    Meheryar, I do not see you marching anywhere far from your comp. We shall see the zenith you take the religion to with these statistics 

  • Phiroze

    Meheryar, I do not see you marching anywhere far from your comp. We shall see the zenith you take the religion to with these statistics 

  • Phiroze

    Contradhongi, you can run away if you like and will not be missed. I have always said that I speak for myself. I like to see if those who talk can walk their talk. 

  • Phiroze

    Contradhongi, you can run away if you like and will not be missed. I have always said that I speak for myself. I like to see if those who talk can walk their talk. 

  • Phiroze

    bakra is also not a Parsi name so what does that make you?????? PARJAT!!!!

  • Phiroze

    bakra is also not a Parsi name so what does that make you?????? PARJAT!!!!

  • Phiroze

    If the Kangas, sethnas, iranis base their translations on the european ones then they are bound to be faulty. If you follow a faulty teacher you learn these faults too. Now how does that make me wrong. 

  • Phiroze

    If the Kangas, sethnas, iranis base their translations on the european ones then they are bound to be faulty. If you follow a faulty teacher you learn these faults too. Now how does that make me wrong. 

  • Phiroze

    When you turn your religious institutions into tourist spots, what does this show????? I do not despise them  or their methods. I just do not consider  worthy of following what they do.

  • Phiroze

    When you turn your religious institutions into tourist spots, what does this show????? I do not despise them  or their methods. I just do not consider  worthy of following what they do.

  • Phiroze

    Sure Meheryar, try killing it here and we shall see who lives. 

  • Phiroze

    Sure Meheryar, try killing it here and we shall see who lives. 

  • Rémi

    If you think that a religion is finished when it allows the presence of tourists in its institutions, you most surely agree with the following:
    – the pope is not a Catholic because of the numberous tourists in Sixtine Chapel and St Peter in Vatican City (the same goes with Notre Dame of Paris)
    – Turks praying in Istanbul’s mosques should not be deemed “Muslims”, since the mosques are open to tourists
    – I visited Budapest’s new synagoge, therefore there are no Jews in that town
    So, please, on what valid basis do you claim that “Zoroastrianism is finished in Iran”?

  • Rémi

    If you think that a religion is finished when it allows the presence of tourists in its institutions, you most surely agree with the following:
    – the pope is not a Catholic because of the numberous tourists in Sixtine Chapel and St Peter in Vatican City (the same goes with Notre Dame of Paris)
    – Turks praying in Istanbul’s mosques should not be deemed “Muslims”, since the mosques are open to tourists
    – I visited Budapest’s new synagoge, therefore there are no Jews in that town
    So, please, on what valid basis do you claim that “Zoroastrianism is finished in Iran”?

  • Contradhongi

    Your saying that I will not be missed has no significance. I can say the same thing about you. But I am not inclined to be childish and indulge in tactics like name calling,  etc  for which you have ‘proficiency’. Let people decide if I will be missed. Mind you, I will continue to blog with persons with reasoning ability and NOT BLOCKHEADS. 

  • Contradhongi

    Your saying that I will not be missed has no significance. I can say the same thing about you. But I am not inclined to be childish and indulge in tactics like name calling,  etc  for which you have ‘proficiency’. Let people decide if I will be missed. Mind you, I will continue to blog with persons with reasoning ability and NOT BLOCKHEADS. 

  • Contradhongi

    What will you do ‘face to face’. By talking thus, such elements conform to the label of being called TalibansNazis etc. 

  • Contradhongi

    What will you do ‘face to face’. By talking thus, such elements conform to the label of being called TalibansNazis etc. 

  • Shaimak.

    @Contrdhongi,
     Your scarce messages give impetus to dhongees to unleash their propaganda. I for one would be grateful if you can comment more frequently to tear the veil of hypocrites. Do not get discouraged by persons like Phiroze who I am told is not even a Registered Voter of B.P.P. To expect him to be donor voter would be asking for too much.
     

  • Shaimak.

    @Contrdhongi,
     Your scarce messages give impetus to dhongees to unleash their propaganda. I for one would be grateful if you can comment more frequently to tear the veil of hypocrites. Do not get discouraged by persons like Phiroze who I am told is not even a Registered Voter of B.P.P. To expect him to be donor voter would be asking for too much.
     

  • Boman.

    You Mr Bigot Phiroze are not the owner of this portal nor an authorized representative of any group to ‘order’ others to buzzoff. You seem to suffer from a phobia like a Primary School Teacher to imagine that just by your saying, others will be excommunicated. You are free to order and dictate terms to your family members at best. You are just a non entity for many of us here. People seem to tolerate you just because you happen to be a source of pastime for them. DO NOT USE THE TACTICS THAT YOU MAY HAVE ADOPTED AT NARGOL, YOUR SUPPOSED PLACE OF ORIGIN BECAUSE WE HERE ARE NOT DODOS.I am one of those who believe in free expression of thoughts and admire the views expressed by persons like contradhongi.

  • Boman.

    You Mr Bigot Phiroze are not the owner of this portal nor an authorized representative of any group to ‘order’ others to buzzoff. You seem to suffer from a phobia like a Primary School Teacher to imagine that just by your saying, others will be excommunicated. You are free to order and dictate terms to your family members at best. You are just a non entity for many of us here. People seem to tolerate you just because you happen to be a source of pastime for them. DO NOT USE THE TACTICS THAT YOU MAY HAVE ADOPTED AT NARGOL, YOUR SUPPOSED PLACE OF ORIGIN BECAUSE WE HERE ARE NOT DODOS.I am one of those who believe in free expression of thoughts and admire the views expressed by persons like contradhongi.

  • Barak Aga

    Dear Contradhongi,
    You are correct perhaps to an extent.Those who disseminate the true import of Zoroastrianism are being villified, taunted, ridiculed and insulted, like Zarathustra was when he started to spread his message.Unknown to you, you may treading on the toes of vested interests.Perhaps this debate has nothing to do with Zoroastrianism, conversion,Gathas. It may be all about power and pelf.Zoroastrians in Mumbai (Bombay), India, are sitting on some of the most valuable real estate in the world.Apartments meant for poor and deserving Zoroastrians are being sold for US$200,000/- each. In one word LARCENY.
    Vested interests are extremely threatened by knowledgeable folks such as Meheryar, Farzana and Tor, who can spoil their party.
    It is an old trick, whip up religious frenzy, scare the laity that the religion is under threat. 

  • Barak Aga

    Dear Contradhongi,
    You are correct perhaps to an extent.Those who disseminate the true import of Zoroastrianism are being villified, taunted, ridiculed and insulted, like Zarathustra was when he started to spread his message.Unknown to you, you may treading on the toes of vested interests.Perhaps this debate has nothing to do with Zoroastrianism, conversion,Gathas. It may be all about power and pelf.Zoroastrians in Mumbai (Bombay), India, are sitting on some of the most valuable real estate in the world.Apartments meant for poor and deserving Zoroastrians are being sold for US$200,000/- each. In one word LARCENY.
    Vested interests are extremely threatened by knowledgeable folks such as Meheryar, Farzana and Tor, who can spoil their party.
    It is an old trick, whip up religious frenzy, scare the laity that the religion is under threat. 

  • Barak Aga

    From: Khosro Khazai PardisEuropean Centre for Zoroastrian Studies
    Dear Friends,
    These few phrases I write here are for those (and they are many) who have not yet understood what our aim and purpose are.
    A “religion” as you call it should be at the service of the people and not otherwise.
    It should be able to help people to set up a happy and joyful life on this earth and if possible to continue it beyond this material world.
    This Existential Philosophy is universal. It means it belongs to every single person on this earth.In the Gathas, Zarathustra has never said he is an Aryan or an Iranian, or related himself to a tribe or people.It is just the opposite of the Semitic prophets who related themselves to a tribe or to a certain people.The country that Zarathustra speaks of is all the countries and the people he mentions are all the people in this world and the life he speaksof is every life including animals and plants.
    Our sacred and declared aim is to take the Zarathustra’s massage, the Gathas, out of the closed doors and temples with archaic structures it has been imprisoned since long time. We want to use it as the most powerful cultural and spiritual instrument in struggle to build a happy, joyful and progressive society. This is the highest ideal of Zarathustra. It will be our highest ideal.
    Only, I suggest you to read once more the Gathas, and you will surprise to find out, that almost half of these sublime songs are about Zarathustra’s fighting against the deceitful religious leaders (the Karpans) and the unjust politicians ( the Kavis).

  • Barak Aga

    From: Khosro Khazai PardisEuropean Centre for Zoroastrian Studies
    Dear Friends,
    These few phrases I write here are for those (and they are many) who have not yet understood what our aim and purpose are.
    A “religion” as you call it should be at the service of the people and not otherwise.
    It should be able to help people to set up a happy and joyful life on this earth and if possible to continue it beyond this material world.
    This Existential Philosophy is universal. It means it belongs to every single person on this earth.In the Gathas, Zarathustra has never said he is an Aryan or an Iranian, or related himself to a tribe or people.It is just the opposite of the Semitic prophets who related themselves to a tribe or to a certain people.The country that Zarathustra speaks of is all the countries and the people he mentions are all the people in this world and the life he speaksof is every life including animals and plants.
    Our sacred and declared aim is to take the Zarathustra’s massage, the Gathas, out of the closed doors and temples with archaic structures it has been imprisoned since long time. We want to use it as the most powerful cultural and spiritual instrument in struggle to build a happy, joyful and progressive society. This is the highest ideal of Zarathustra. It will be our highest ideal.
    Only, I suggest you to read once more the Gathas, and you will surprise to find out, that almost half of these sublime songs are about Zarathustra’s fighting against the deceitful religious leaders (the Karpans) and the unjust politicians ( the Kavis).

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    If I agree with you that would make two of us wrong.  I would rather let you have that privilege. 

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    If I agree with you that would make two of us wrong.  I would rather let you have that privilege. 

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    How do you know the translations are faulty?  What is the basis for that statement?  If they are faulty, what and where are the authentic translations?  You keep making these foolish statements, but can’t support them with any credibility. 

  • Meheryar Rivetna

    How do you know the translations are faulty?  What is the basis for that statement?  If they are faulty, what and where are the authentic translations?  You keep making these foolish statements, but can’t support them with any credibility. 

  • Zerxes.

    Contradhongi, The mentality of a Nazi in Phiroze makes him write nonsense to see that some how or the other, those opposing his contorted thinking are eliminated. Do not listen to his selfish message. Pl do express your views. We are in a democracy but tp persons like this dodo,democracy means following whatever bunkum he utters. 

  • Zerxes.

    Contradhongi, The mentality of a Nazi in Phiroze makes him write nonsense to see that some how or the other, those opposing his contorted thinking are eliminated. Do not listen to his selfish message. Pl do express your views. We are in a democracy but tp persons like this dodo,democracy means following whatever bunkum he utters. 

  • Rémi

    Well, I have enjoyed reading both the articles and the subsequent comment battles posted on Parsi Khabar about the soooooooo touching topic about conversion.
    Since many rely on the Gathas to give evidence to their views on conversion/acceptance , I’ve decided to have a look on the opposite end of Z scripture, ie the Denkard, as available on http:// http://www.avesta.org .

    So, here is a few quotes that seem to give credit to the existence of the concept of conversion/acceptance in Zoroastrianism.
    I’ll be pleased to read what you think about it, and please explain me how to understand thoses lines if you think I got it wrong.

    Underlining by me.
    ———————

    Book 3

     

    Be it known
    that God wishes that men should know Him. For this reason the person who has
    the ability to give men knowledge about God is called in the good religion a
    chief and excellent adviser. The need of preaching about the knowledge of
    God is not for immortal men (i.e. those who have been saved from the
    tortures of hell); but to those other men who are deified by the evil power of
    greed, lust, sloth, and other injurious vices, and who possess no knowledge
    about their Creator, the leaders of the faith should teach the knowledge
    about Ohrmazd.

     

    http://www.avesta.org/denkard/dk3s275.html#chap294

    .

     

    Book 7

     

    Chapter 1

    41. And it
    came from him, after Zartosht of the Spitamas came to the conference of the
    creator Ohrmazd, and accepted from the omniscient creator Ohrmazd unmixed
    freedom from pollution, the comprehensive and also recited acquaintance with
    the knowledge and work of priesthood, warriorship, husbandry, and artisanship,
    and the separate portions of the Mazda-worshipping revelation (deno) brought to
    king Kay Vishtasp by command of the creator, illuminated by the great splendor
    in that supreme sovereign of the sacred beings, and propagated by the
    learned of the region, in the regions which are seven, through the good
    eloquence which is owing to the succession of creatures until the renovation of
    the universe.

     

    43. And
    there have also been others before Zartosht, the prophet (vakhshvar) of desired
    fame in the Mazda-worshipping religion; for it is declared that, at times, some
    came from the spiritual beings to him who was more of a leader, and mankind
    have become as captivated by the solicitation and interrogation of that affair,
    as now by the solicitation and interrogation of the religion; the necessity for
    that period is not now necessary, because all mankind are made acquainted
    with the religion, and Zartosht of the Spitamas, whose guardian spirit is
    righteous, is to be reverenced.

     

    Chapter 4

    74. Also to
    proclaim its truth intelligibly, and to make king Vishtasp and those Previously
    learned men without doubt as to the truth of the religion, the creator Ohrmazd
    sends some spirits, Vohuman, Ardwahisht, and the propitious fire, as a reminder
    to Vishtasp about the true prophesying of Zartosht, and the desire of Ohrmazd
    for the acceptance of the religion of Mazda-worship by Vishtasp and for its
    propagation in the world.

     

    Chapter 6

    12. One
    marvel is this which is declared that in fifty-seven years onwards from the
    acceptance of the religion by Zartosht, the arrival of the religion is
    published in the seven regions;

     

    http://www.avesta.org/denkard/dk7.html

     

     

    Book 9

     

    Warsht-mansr Nask
    (gathic/religious)

    Fargard 1

    4.. The
    speaking of Zartosht spiritually, on the grievous bringing forth of his head ,
    thus: ‘As a spiritual lord is my desire, do thou who art the Zoti speak forth
    to me;’ and the reply from Ohrmazd thus: ‘So shouldst thou be the priestly
    master as regards whatever righteousness I speak forth with righteous
    intelligence; thou art of very much value, thou art very righteous, thou art
    most intelligent, and thou wilt state the religion of the Mazda-worshippers
    to creatures of every kind.’

     

    Fargard 5

    6. About
    the laudation of Zartosht there is this, too, that is: ‘Thou art not astray
    from us, neither in life, nor in inquiry, nor in openly announcing, even
    when demonstrating the religion to others, nor in anything whatever, O
    Spitaman!

     

    Fargard 8

    1. The
    eighth fargard, Ta-ve-urvata, is about advice as to reciting the revelation,
    the information therefrom for the faithful, about which they have to report
    to the unfaithful, by mentioning conspicuous specimens and explanatory
    knowledge, and by thinking of anything whatever which they have to accept, or
    even which they have not to accept; also, for one called to the religion, the
    advantage owing to the attraction of mankind to the numerous actual
    disciplehood of the religion, and the increasing greatness materially, and
    further reward spiritually, owing to the numerous disciplehood; and the
    progress of the religion of Ohrmazd even among the irreligious (adenoan) and
    actual apostates.

     

    Fargard 11

    s. About
    cases where the good-will of the spirit of complete mindfulness makes
    mankind attain to the good religion; and their spiritual joy arises from
    the purification of their own religion through virtuous exercise of will.
    [How to understand “their OWN religion”?]

     

    Fargard 14

    g. About
    the religion becoming progressive in every one, through its renovation of the
    universe and its future existence, there is this, too, namely: ‘This thy
    religion of Zartosht is the width of the world, and righteousness is the
    best of religions; this thy religion of Zartosht is the improvement of the
    world, which is first supplied by righteousness and complete mindfulness in the
    reason (varom) of those who recite this thy revelation (deno) of the
    Mazda-worshippers, O Zartosht! this thy good religion is the best which it is
    possible to provide with righteousness for one’s own. h. Thou shouldst
    proclaim this to kinsmen and confederates, to priests and him who is most
    active in the country; as to those who will dispute this thy religion of the
    Mazda-worshippers, thou shouldst proclaim this over the earth of seven
    regions, unto that which is the furthest of houses, villages, communities, and
    provinces: “Do thou openly curse these who are heretical towards me,
    thou united Mazda-worship of Zartosht, opposed to the demons, which is the
    ordinance of Ohrmazd!”‘

     

    Bag Nask (gathic/religious)

    Fargard 6

    5. This,
    too, that he who is a producer of benefit for promoters of good works becomes
    an extender of the teaching of religion; even for this reason, because from
    producing benefit for promoters of good works arises an increase of good works,
    from an increase of good works arises further progress of the will of the
    sacred beings, from further progress of the will of the sacred beings arises
    more progress of the good religion, and from more progress of the good
    religion arises an extension of the teaching of the good religion in the world.

     

    Fargard 11

    10. This,
    too, that acceptance, hints, and words are given to Ohrmazd by him who asks
    again, that which he does not understand of the religion, from him who does
    understand; even for this reason, because knowledge is completed through these
    three things: obtainment, hints, and speaking, and all three are asked again by
    him who does not understand. 11. This, too, that the words of Ohrmazd are
    taught by him who teaches the acceptance, remembrance, and speaking of the
    religion; even for this reason, because this is the recital of that
    compendium (hangerdikih).

     

    Fargard 13

    7. This,
    too, that, by him who teaches to mankind that thing which becomes their hope
    of eternity, mankind are taught to come to the religion of the sacred beings;
    even for this reason, because the Vohumanic attainment to the religion of the
    sacred beings is to be required wisely for them, its requirement wisely for
    them is a benefit for the steadfast and becomes a consideration (minih) for
    them, and the consideration of the benefit of the steadfast is through hope of
    the eternity which is provided for the benefit, on account of which the hope of
    eternity — which is the basis — is the reason even of the acceptance of
    the religion.

     

    14. This,
    too, that the recitation of revelation is performed for mankind by him who
    extends the propagation of the religion;

     

    Fargard 17

    1. The
    seventeenth fargard, Yezi, is that whoever maintains the benedictions of the
    religion, and shall uphold its commands, has thereby made even others learn it;
    even for this reason, because through this it is much more possible for him
    to attract others to the religion; and, as to the origin and means of
    attraction, the attraction is this, that he himself maintains the benedictions
    of the religion, and the means of attraction are this, that he is an upholder
    of the commands of the religion.

     

    Fargard 18

    8. And
    this, too, that preparation is taught to them who are benefiters of Zartosht,
    or who are so of the religion; even for this reason, because, owing to that
    action, disposition, and attraction which are now theirs, they prepare
    mankind for the religion of Zartosht.

     

    Stud-Yasn Nask (The
    Original Gathic Texts)

    40. And
    that it is so that they shall fully understand that the punishment of the
    wicked is for teaching them that they will attain to the existence of darkness,
    that even to him who belongs to the ever-stationary they may give his reward,
    that they are for smiting the wicked one, that they are very powerful to give,
    that they should kill the apostate, that one has to be converted from vileness
    to goodness, that he who would be wicked is made to believe by the tongue,
    that for the sake of proper nurture of the creatures next-of-kin marriage is
    provided, that the demons are despised, that thus he who is evil-ruling is
    wicked, and that they are approaching the place where Ohrmazd shall provide for
    the account of sin and good works.

     

    56. When
    every one knows that, when a supplicant, he is more a smiter of the wicked;
    when every individual utters the salutation (Niyayeshno) of Ohrmazd; when every
    individual knows that that is our comfort, and that it is Ohrmazd’s own
    creature; and when every individual is taught and every individual joins in
    the perfect religion.

     

    http://www.avesta.org/denkard/dk9sbe.html

     

  • Rémi

    Well, I have enjoyed reading both the articles and the subsequent comment battles posted on Parsi Khabar about the soooooooo touching topic about conversion.
    Since many rely on the Gathas to give evidence to their views on conversion/acceptance , I’ve decided to have a look on the opposite end of Z scripture, ie the Denkard, as available on http:// http://www.avesta.org .

    So, here is a few quotes that seem to give credit to the existence of the concept of conversion/acceptance in Zoroastrianism.
    I’ll be pleased to read what you think about it, and please explain me how to understand thoses lines if you think I got it wrong.

    Underlining by me.
    ———————

    Book 3

     

    Be it known
    that God wishes that men should know Him. For this reason the person who has
    the ability to give men knowledge about God is called in the good religion a
    chief and excellent adviser. The need of preaching about the knowledge of
    God is not for immortal men (i.e. those who have been saved from the
    tortures of hell); but to those other men who are deified by the evil power of
    greed, lust, sloth, and other injurious vices, and who possess no knowledge
    about their Creator, the leaders of the faith should teach the knowledge
    about Ohrmazd.

     

    http://www.avesta.org/denkard/dk3s275.html#chap294

    .

     

    Book 7

     

    Chapter 1

    41. And it
    came from him, after Zartosht of the Spitamas came to the conference of the
    creator Ohrmazd, and accepted from the omniscient creator Ohrmazd unmixed
    freedom from pollution, the comprehensive and also recited acquaintance with
    the knowledge and work of priesthood, warriorship, husbandry, and artisanship,
    and the separate portions of the Mazda-worshipping revelation (deno) brought to
    king Kay Vishtasp by command of the creator, illuminated by the great splendor
    in that supreme sovereign of the sacred beings, and propagated by the
    learned of the region, in the regions which are seven, through the good
    eloquence which is owing to the succession of creatures until the renovation of
    the universe.

     

    43. And
    there have also been others before Zartosht, the prophet (vakhshvar) of desired
    fame in the Mazda-worshipping religion; for it is declared that, at times, some
    came from the spiritual beings to him who was more of a leader, and mankind
    have become as captivated by the solicitation and interrogation of that affair,
    as now by the solicitation and interrogation of the religion; the necessity for
    that period is not now necessary, because all mankind are made acquainted
    with the religion, and Zartosht of the Spitamas, whose guardian spirit is
    righteous, is to be reverenced.

     

    Chapter 4

    74. Also to
    proclaim its truth intelligibly, and to make king Vishtasp and those Previously
    learned men without doubt as to the truth of the religion, the creator Ohrmazd
    sends some spirits, Vohuman, Ardwahisht, and the propitious fire, as a reminder
    to Vishtasp about the true prophesying of Zartosht, and the desire of Ohrmazd
    for the acceptance of the religion of Mazda-worship by Vishtasp and for its
    propagation in the world.

     

    Chapter 6

    12. One
    marvel is this which is declared that in fifty-seven years onwards from the
    acceptance of the religion by Zartosht, the arrival of the religion is
    published in the seven regions;

     

    http://www.avesta.org/denkard/dk7.html

     

     

    Book 9

     

    Warsht-mansr Nask
    (gathic/religious)

    Fargard 1

    4.. The
    speaking of Zartosht spiritually, on the grievous bringing forth of his head ,
    thus: ‘As a spiritual lord is my desire, do thou who art the Zoti speak forth
    to me;’ and the reply from Ohrmazd thus: ‘So shouldst thou be the priestly
    master as regards whatever righteousness I speak forth with righteous
    intelligence; thou art of very much value, thou art very righteous, thou art
    most intelligent, and thou wilt state the religion of the Mazda-worshippers
    to creatures of every kind.’

     

    Fargard 5

    6. About
    the laudation of Zartosht there is this, too, that is: ‘Thou art not astray
    from us, neither in life, nor in inquiry, nor in openly announcing, even
    when demonstrating the religion to others, nor in anything whatever, O
    Spitaman!

     

    Fargard 8

    1. The
    eighth fargard, Ta-ve-urvata, is about advice as to reciting the revelation,
    the information therefrom for the faithful, about which they have to report
    to the unfaithful, by mentioning conspicuous specimens and explanatory
    knowledge, and by thinking of anything whatever which they have to accept, or
    even which they have not to accept; also, for one called to the religion, the
    advantage owing to the attraction of mankind to the numerous actual
    disciplehood of the religion, and the increasing greatness materially, and
    further reward spiritually, owing to the numerous disciplehood; and the
    progress of the religion of Ohrmazd even among the irreligious (adenoan) and
    actual apostates.

     

    Fargard 11

    s. About
    cases where the good-will of the spirit of complete mindfulness makes
    mankind attain to the good religion; and their spiritual joy arises from
    the purification of their own religion through virtuous exercise of will.
    [How to understand “their OWN religion”?]

     

    Fargard 14

    g. About
    the religion becoming progressive in every one, through its renovation of the
    universe and its future existence, there is this, too, namely: ‘This thy
    religion of Zartosht is the width of the world, and righteousness is the
    best of religions; this thy religion of Zartosht is the improvement of the
    world, which is first supplied by righteousness and complete mindfulness in the
    reason (varom) of those who recite this thy revelation (deno) of the
    Mazda-worshippers, O Zartosht! this thy good religion is the best which it is
    possible to provide with righteousness for one’s own. h. Thou shouldst
    proclaim this to kinsmen and confederates, to priests and him who is most
    active in the country; as to those who will dispute this thy religion of the
    Mazda-worshippers, thou shouldst proclaim this over the earth of seven
    regions, unto that which is the furthest of houses, villages, communities, and
    provinces: “Do thou openly curse these who are heretical towards me,
    thou united Mazda-worship of Zartosht, opposed to the demons, which is the
    ordinance of Ohrmazd!”‘

     

    Bag Nask (gathic/religious)

    Fargard 6

    5. This,
    too, that he who is a producer of benefit for promoters of good works becomes
    an extender of the teaching of religion; even for this reason, because from
    producing benefit for promoters of good works arises an increase of good works,
    from an increase of good works arises further progress of the will of the
    sacred beings, from further progress of the will of the sacred beings arises
    more progress of the good religion, and from more progress of the good
    religion arises an extension of the teaching of the good religion in the world.

     

    Fargard 11

    10. This,
    too, that acceptance, hints, and words are given to Ohrmazd by him who asks
    again, that which he does not understand of the religion, from him who does
    understand; even for this reason, because knowledge is completed through these
    three things: obtainment, hints, and speaking, and all three are asked again by
    him who does not understand. 11. This, too, that the words of Ohrmazd are
    taught by him who teaches the acceptance, remembrance, and speaking of the
    religion; even for this reason, because this is the recital of that
    compendium (hangerdikih).

     

    Fargard 13

    7. This,
    too, that, by him who teaches to mankind that thing which becomes their hope
    of eternity, mankind are taught to come to the religion of the sacred beings;
    even for this reason, because the Vohumanic attainment to the religion of the
    sacred beings is to be required wisely for them, its requirement wisely for
    them is a benefit for the steadfast and becomes a consideration (minih) for
    them, and the consideration of the benefit of the steadfast is through hope of
    the eternity which is provided for the benefit, on account of which the hope of
    eternity — which is the basis — is the reason even of the acceptance of
    the religion.

     

    14. This,
    too, that the recitation of revelation is performed for mankind by him who
    extends the propagation of the religion;

     

    Fargard 17

    1. The
    seventeenth fargard, Yezi, is that whoever maintains the benedictions of the
    religion, and shall uphold its commands, has thereby made even others learn it;
    even for this reason, because through this it is much more possible for him
    to attract others to the religion; and, as to the origin and means of
    attraction, the attraction is this, that he himself maintains the benedictions
    of the religion, and the means of attraction are this, that he is an upholder
    of the commands of the religion.

     

    Fargard 18

    8. And
    this, too, that preparation is taught to them who are benefiters of Zartosht,
    or who are so of the religion; even for this reason, because, owing to that
    action, disposition, and attraction which are now theirs, they prepare
    mankind for the religion of Zartosht.

     

    Stud-Yasn Nask (The
    Original Gathic Texts)

    40. And
    that it is so that they shall fully understand that the punishment of the
    wicked is for teaching them that they will attain to the existence of darkness,
    that even to him who belongs to the ever-stationary they may give his reward,
    that they are for smiting the wicked one, that they are very powerful to give,
    that they should kill the apostate, that one has to be converted from vileness
    to goodness, that he who would be wicked is made to believe by the tongue,
    that for the sake of proper nurture of the creatures next-of-kin marriage is
    provided, that the demons are despised, that thus he who is evil-ruling is
    wicked, and that they are approaching the place where Ohrmazd shall provide for
    the account of sin and good works.

     

    56. When
    every one knows that, when a supplicant, he is more a smiter of the wicked;
    when every individual utters the salutation (Niyayeshno) of Ohrmazd; when every
    individual knows that that is our comfort, and that it is Ohrmazd’s own
    creature; and when every individual is taught and every individual joins in
    the perfect religion.

     

    http://www.avesta.org/denkard/dk9sbe.html

     

  • Rémi

    Please read “touchy” ant not “touching” in my first sentence.
    And underlining has somehow disappeared, sorry for that.

  • Rémi

    Please read “touchy” ant not “touching” in my first sentence.
    And underlining has somehow disappeared, sorry for that.

  • Barak Aga

    Zoroastrianism is not an ethnicity.
    Those who follow the teachings of Zarathustra are Zoroastrians.
    Those who study law are lawyers. You don’t have to be born in to a family of “ethnic” lawyers to be able to qualify as one.
    Those who pursue mathematics are mathematicians. You don’t have to be born in to a family of “ethnic” mathematicians to be able to qualify as one.
    Simple.
    Anyone and everyone can follow the Zoroastrian faith 

  • Barak Aga

    Zoroastrianism is not an ethnicity.
    Those who follow the teachings of Zarathustra are Zoroastrians.
    Those who study law are lawyers. You don’t have to be born in to a family of “ethnic” lawyers to be able to qualify as one.
    Those who pursue mathematics are mathematicians. You don’t have to be born in to a family of “ethnic” mathematicians to be able to qualify as one.
    Simple.
    Anyone and everyone can follow the Zoroastrian faith 

  • Barak Aga

    Zoroastrianism is not an ethnicity.
    Those who follow the teachings of Zarathustra are Zoroastrians.
    Those who study law are lawyers. You don’t have to be born in to a family of “ethnic” lawyers to be able to qualify as one.
    Those who pursue mathematics are mathematicians. You don’t have to be born in to a family of “ethnic” mathematicians to be able to qualify as one.
    Simple.
    Anyone and everyone can follow the Zoroastrian faith 

  • Barak Aga

    Zarathustra preached “Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds”.
    Does the straitjacket in to which Zoroastrianism has been placed in India, imply that only 70,000 people on this planet living in India have the right to “Good Thoughts, Good Words and Good Deeds”, and the remaining 6 billion people on this planet must necessarily Think Evil, Speak Evil and Do Evil as according to the pseudo-orthodox in India, they are not entitled to practice the teachings of Zarathustra? 

  • Barak Aga

    Zarathustra preached “Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds”.
    Does the straitjacket in to which Zoroastrianism has been placed in India, imply that only 70,000 people on this planet living in India have the right to “Good Thoughts, Good Words and Good Deeds”, and the remaining 6 billion people on this planet must necessarily Think Evil, Speak Evil and Do Evil as according to the pseudo-orthodox in India, they are not entitled to practice the teachings of Zarathustra? 

  • Barak Aga

    So Phiroze,
    You admit you are yellow-livered.
    Talking about “Parjats”, you live in a “Parjat” country (India); your ancestors had to beg a “Parjat” King (Jadi Rana), for refuge; you had to adopt the language (Gujarati & English), customs, dressing habits and food of the “Parjats”.
    How much of a Persian or Zoroastrian are you?

  • Barak Aga

    So Phiroze,
    You admit you are yellow-livered.
    Talking about “Parjats”, you live in a “Parjat” country (India); your ancestors had to beg a “Parjat” King (Jadi Rana), for refuge; you had to adopt the language (Gujarati & English), customs, dressing habits and food of the “Parjats”.
    How much of a Persian or Zoroastrian are you?

  • Barak Aga

    So Phiroze,
    You admit you are yellow-livered.
    Talking about “Parjats”, you live in a “Parjat” country (India); your ancestors had to beg a “Parjat” King (Jadi Rana), for refuge; you had to adopt the language (Gujarati & English), customs, dressing habits and food of the “Parjats”.
    How much of a Persian or Zoroastrian are you?

  • Barak Aga

     
    If religion was linked to ethnicity, the present Dalai Lama has no moral or ethical ground to be the Dalai Lama. Budha was born in the Indian state of Bihar. Only a Bihari from India could claim the highest seat of Buddhism, and not a Tibetan.Zarathustra was believed to have been born in to the Airya tribe. It is said he belonged to the Bhrigu clan. Neither the Airya tribe, nor the Bhrigu clan exist today. So none of us can be counted as Zoroastrian.Prophet Muhammed was an Arab. Those from Pakistan, India, Malaysia, Indonesia would not be able to practice Islam if relgion and ethnicity were entwined.Jesus was born in Palestine. The present Pope Ratzinger (German Panzer Cardinal) would not be entitled to be the Pope. In fact in a ludicrous twist only a Jew would be allowed to be the Christian Pope, since Christ was a Jew.

  • Barak Aga

     
    If religion was linked to ethnicity, the present Dalai Lama has no moral or ethical ground to be the Dalai Lama. Budha was born in the Indian state of Bihar. Only a Bihari from India could claim the highest seat of Buddhism, and not a Tibetan.Zarathustra was believed to have been born in to the Airya tribe. It is said he belonged to the Bhrigu clan. Neither the Airya tribe, nor the Bhrigu clan exist today. So none of us can be counted as Zoroastrian.Prophet Muhammed was an Arab. Those from Pakistan, India, Malaysia, Indonesia would not be able to practice Islam if relgion and ethnicity were entwined.Jesus was born in Palestine. The present Pope Ratzinger (German Panzer Cardinal) would not be entitled to be the Pope. In fact in a ludicrous twist only a Jew would be allowed to be the Christian Pope, since Christ was a Jew.