The First Vendidad Sade and Baj in NA at a Dar-e-Meher Inauguration, and Enthronement of Dadgah in the ZANT Brand New Built From Scratch ZCNT (Zoroastrian Center of North Texas) April 29-30 2011!
By Ervad Soli P. Dastur
Background
At the FEZANA AGM in Dallas in 2007, I first saw the dreams and plans of ZANT (Zoroastrian Association of North Texas) for building a brand new Dar-e-Meher in their Zoroastrian Center of North Texas (ZCNT) in Dallas. And I instantly made a pledge that I will be there to celebrate their Center’s opening! And with the grace of Ahura Mazda and with the blessings of Pak Iranshah, Jo Ann and I were so fortunate to attend this inauguration with the prayers of the Vendidad Sade and Baj performed the first time in a NA Dar-e-Meher inauguration!
Over the years, I have been in contact with Firdosh Mehta and my good fellow Mobed friend Ervad Poras Balsara as regards their Dar-e-Meher installation, what prayers to perform, etc. We contacted Dasturji Feroze Kotwal, Ervad Dr. Ramiyar Karanjia, London ZTFE President Malcolm Deboo and my fellow Mobed Rustom Bhedwar of ZTFE, and others to learn from their experiences and to seek advice and guidance for these ceremonies!
After a number of false starts, I received an email from Poras in Mumbai that the inauguration is finally set to be on April 28th Friday morning with the Vendidad Sade prayers starting after the mid-night, followed by a Baj next day in the morning and the inauguration Jashan and Dadgah installation in the afternoon. I had to change my plans to arrive in Sarasota on Tuesday 26th from Mumbai and to Dallas the next day! So, here we were at the center on Wednesday helping out with the next day prayers!
Vendidad Sade Prayers
The first ever Vendidad prayers were performed by Mobed Poras Balsara, Mobed Yazdi Dastur, grandson of late Vada Dasturji Ferozeji Dastoor of Udwada, both from Dallas and me. We started the prayers around 12:20 AM with the participation of about 35 local ZANT members and were very happy and relieved to complete all the 22 Fargarads of Vendidad by 6:10 AM! About 25 ZANT members were still there to see the completion.
It was the first Vendidad Sade by me after some 60 years when I became Martab in Pak Iranshah! I prepared for this by going over the prayers in Udwada, as well as at over 30,000 ft. in the planes coming from Mumbai! A great way to be closer to Ahura Mazda!
Baj Prayer of Sarosh Yazad
In the morning of Saturday April 30th, we started the Sarosh Baj prayers, performed by me. The first ever Baj ceremony may have been performed by my brother Mobed Palanji P. Dastoor, Panthaki of JD Colaba Agiary in Mumbai, in May 1986 in the home of Roshan and Pervaze Rabadi in Toronto at the occasion of Varadh Pattar for their son Neville’s wedding. Also, Mobed Gustad Panthaki has performed Baj ceremony in OZCF Dar-e-Meher during Muktad Days. However, this is the first time in NA that a Baj ceremony is performed for a new Dar-e-Meher inauguration! There were about 50 ZANT members to witness this ceremony.
Inauguration Jashan
In the afternoon, at about 4:15 PM, under the leadership of Ervad Poras Balsara, the inauguration Jashan was performed with 6 other Mobeds: the youngest Ervad Burzin Balsara, son of Poras, Yazdi Dastur, Cyrus Dastur, Zubin Kotwal, Hormuzd Karkaria, and me. The Jashan was performed with 5 kardas.
Dadgah Investiture
After the Jashan, the fire in the Afargaanyu was led by the Mobeds in a solemn procession to the sanctum sanctorum and was transferred to the main Afargaanyu in the Dadgah. 6 sandalwood pieces were used for the first Maachi arranged over the transferred embers. Then all seven Mobeds participated in the first Boi ceremony performed by Ervad Poras with the recitation of Atash Nyayesh, Doa Naam Setaayashne and Doa Tandoorasti! The first 3 peel of the bell created a magical moment
with many a wet eyes in the prayer hall! The outside weather was cloudy throughout the Jashan ceremony but just about the time when the Mobeds were able to set the fire ablaze, the sun burst through with its wonderful golden rays right on the fire which created a surreal atmosphere to be remembered by all present! Someone up above was showering HIS blessings to this new wonderful Dadgah!
Almost 150 ZANT members attended the Jashan and the Dadgah Investiture as well as the dinner there after.
Personal Reflections
In our 45 years together, Jo Ann and I have been very fortunate to have uplifting moments in our lives! However, our participation in this inauguration and my personal involvement in all the prayers will always be with us as one of our most uplifting moments in our lives! We want to thank Dadar Ahura Mazda for allowing us to witness this as well as the whole ZANT community who has adopted us both as one of their own and we bow our heads to all of them in humility and gratitude for allowing us to be one of them! We pray that this center will bring this wonderful community together as one, for ever in HIS service and prosper and achieve all that they want to for their wonderful community and the ZCNT!
Final Prayer
In the last Para of Atash Nyayesh, “Upa-thw? hakhshoit geush v?nthwa”, the fire blesses the devotee who brings an offering (sukhad, incense, etc.) to him.
“Unto thee (i.e. in thy family) may the flock of cattle increase – have ample means. Unto thee may there be an increase of heroic men (sons having heroic strength) – Blessed with many worthy sons! May thou have an active mind (may thou be clever and intellectual) – Endowed with active
and alert mind! May thy life be active (may thou perform benevolent and virtuous deeds) – Spending the life for others! Mayest thou live a joyous life – Enjoying life of larger interests! Those nights that thou livest. This is the blessing of the Fire (for him) who brings to that fire dry fuel! “
May these blessings of the ZANT Dadgah Fire be bestowed upon all ZANT families and all the FEZANA families so that we all help to spread the knowledge of our beautiful religion among all our fellow Zoroastrians and to all with whom we come in contact!
Atha Jamyaat, Yatha Aafrinaami! (May it be so that I wish!).
wonderful. what an experience it must have been. and looks well executed. the vendidad is the greatest of all rituals. and i hope the spouses and children of intermarrieds were with open arms as lord zarathustra did all across the middle east and iran as he PREACHED AND CONVERTED THOSE WHO DID NOT BELONG TO THE FAITH, taught us.
wonderful. what an experience it must have been. and looks well executed. the vendidad is the greatest of all rituals. and i hope the spouses and children of intermarrieds were with open arms as lord zarathustra did all across the middle east and iran as he PREACHED AND CONVERTED THOSE WHO DID NOT BELONG TO THE FAITH, taught us.
wonderful. what an experience it must have been. and looks well executed. the vendidad is the greatest of all rituals. and i hope the spouses and children of intermarrieds were with open arms as lord zarathustra did all across the middle east and iran as he PREACHED AND CONVERTED THOSE WHO DID NOT BELONG TO THE FAITH, taught us.
I have a question! It has come to my understanding that ceremonies such as the Vendidad, Yazashne, Visperad, and Baaj, are inner liturgical ceremonies and can only be done in India or Pakistan in close proximity with the Pav Mahal (Iran Shah). Also, consecrate a fire do not two yazashnes and 1 Vendidad have to take place?
I have a question! It has come to my understanding that ceremonies such as the Vendidad, Yazashne, Visperad, and Baaj, are inner liturgical ceremonies and can only be done in India or Pakistan in close proximity with the Pav Mahal (Iran Shah). Also, consecrate a fire do not two yazashnes and 1 Vendidad have to take place?
I have a question! It has come to my understanding that ceremonies such as the Vendidad, Yazashne, Visperad, and Baaj, are inner liturgical ceremonies and can only be done in India or Pakistan in close proximity with the Pav Mahal (Iran Shah). Also, consecrate a fire do not two yazashnes and 1 Vendidad have to take place?
Behram,
I am sure the question you have raised has crossed the mind of many an adherent of our faith. Please allow me to share with you what Ervad Jivanji Jamshedji Modi says in his book “The Religious Ceremonies and Customs of the Parsis.” If anyone has an issue with what I am stating, they can take it up with Dasturji Modi.
The liturgical ceremonies are divided into two parts:
1. The Inner Liturgical Services
2. The Outer Liturgical Services
(We shall deal here with the first part only since that was the question raised.)
The Inner Liturgical services are those religious services that are performed in a place specially allotted for the purpose. Such a place is known as the Dar-i-Meher and is generally connected (not always) with a fire temple. Such ceremonies can only be performed by the priests who observe the “Bareshnum.” These ceremonies are generally spoken of as the “pav mahal” ceremonies, i.e., the ceremonies of the “holy or consecrated house,” that is “pav(itra) mahal.” (Has nothing to do with the proximity to Iran Shah.)
Under the heading of the inner or “pav mahal” liturgical services, fall the following ceremonies:
1. Yasna or Yazashna
2. The Visperad
3. The Vendidad
4. The Baj
A Dar-i-Meher contains fire of the third grade (first grade: Atash-Behram; second grade: Atash-Adran.) The word Dar-i-Meher comes from “Dar” meaning door (from Avesta “dvara”) and Meher which is a later form of the Avesta “Mithra.” So Dar-i-Meher means “door of Meher.” Meher Yazad is the Yazata presiding over light and justice, and as light is the symbol of truth and justice, or symbol of divinity; hence, the place where all the higher liturgical services in honor of God are performed has come to be called “Dar-i-Meher”, i.e., the house of divine light and justice.
Dasturji Modi makes no mention of any proximity to Iranshah. If proximity is a consideration, how proximal does the Dar-i-Meher have to be? Who sets the distance? Where is it stated? I cannot find any reference to the liturgical ceremonies being performed in the proximity of Iranshah. This is again mumbo-jumbo cooked up by some priests to hoodwink the laity.
As I said at the beginning, anyone has a problem with this, please take it up with Dasturji Modi!
Dear Behram:
What do you exactly mean by close proximity? Can u specify the exact distance between Iranshah and place where such inner litturgical ceremony can be performed. Pl also indicate the text based source of specified distance.
Next question, suppose the same cremony is held say in Pune, do you mean to say that in distance between Pune and Iranshah there is no druji?
2) Pl also enlighten the reasons, with textural reference:
a) as to why (reason) such ceremonies can be conducted ‘in close proximity’ with Iranshah?
b) Textural reference in support of your belief.
Thanks.
Behram,
I am sure the question you have raised has crossed the mind of many an adherent of our faith. Please allow me to share with you what Ervad Jivanji Jamshedji Modi says in his book “The Religious Ceremonies and Customs of the Parsis.” If anyone has an issue with what I am stating, they can take it up with Dasturji Modi.
The liturgical ceremonies are divided into two parts:
1. The Inner Liturgical Services
2. The Outer Liturgical Services
(We shall deal here with the first part only since that was the question raised.)
The Inner Liturgical services are those religious services that are performed in a place specially allotted for the purpose. Such a place is known as the Dar-i-Meher and is generally connected (not always) with a fire temple. Such ceremonies can only be performed by the priests who observe the “Bareshnum.” These ceremonies are generally spoken of as the “pav mahal” ceremonies, i.e., the ceremonies of the “holy or consecrated house,” that is “pav(itra) mahal.” (Has nothing to do with the proximity to Iran Shah.)
Under the heading of the inner or “pav mahal” liturgical services, fall the following ceremonies:
1. Yasna or Yazashna
2. The Visperad
3. The Vendidad
4. The Baj
A Dar-i-Meher contains fire of the third grade (first grade: Atash-Behram; second grade: Atash-Adran.) The word Dar-i-Meher comes from “Dar” meaning door (from Avesta “dvara”) and Meher which is a later form of the Avesta “Mithra.” So Dar-i-Meher means “door of Meher.” Meher Yazad is the Yazata presiding over light and justice, and as light is the symbol of truth and justice, or symbol of divinity; hence, the place where all the higher liturgical services in honor of God are performed has come to be called “Dar-i-Meher”, i.e., the house of divine light and justice.
Dasturji Modi makes no mention of any proximity to Iranshah. If proximity is a consideration, how proximal does the Dar-i-Meher have to be? Who sets the distance? Where is it stated? I cannot find any reference to the liturgical ceremonies being performed in the proximity of Iranshah. This is again mumbo-jumbo cooked up by some priests to hoodwink the laity.
As I said at the beginning, anyone has a problem with this, please take it up with Dasturji Modi!
Behram,
I am sure the question you have raised has crossed the mind of many an adherent of our faith. Please allow me to share with you what Ervad Jivanji Jamshedji Modi says in his book “The Religious Ceremonies and Customs of the Parsis.” If anyone has an issue with what I am stating, they can take it up with Dasturji Modi.
The liturgical ceremonies are divided into two parts:
1. The Inner Liturgical Services
2. The Outer Liturgical Services
(We shall deal here with the first part only since that was the question raised.)
The Inner Liturgical services are those religious services that are performed in a place specially allotted for the purpose. Such a place is known as the Dar-i-Meher and is generally connected (not always) with a fire temple. Such ceremonies can only be performed by the priests who observe the “Bareshnum.” These ceremonies are generally spoken of as the “pav mahal” ceremonies, i.e., the ceremonies of the “holy or consecrated house,” that is “pav(itra) mahal.” (Has nothing to do with the proximity to Iran Shah.)
Under the heading of the inner or “pav mahal” liturgical services, fall the following ceremonies:
1. Yasna or Yazashna
2. The Visperad
3. The Vendidad
4. The Baj
A Dar-i-Meher contains fire of the third grade (first grade: Atash-Behram; second grade: Atash-Adran.) The word Dar-i-Meher comes from “Dar” meaning door (from Avesta “dvara”) and Meher which is a later form of the Avesta “Mithra.” So Dar-i-Meher means “door of Meher.” Meher Yazad is the Yazata presiding over light and justice, and as light is the symbol of truth and justice, or symbol of divinity; hence, the place where all the higher liturgical services in honor of God are performed has come to be called “Dar-i-Meher”, i.e., the house of divine light and justice.
Dasturji Modi makes no mention of any proximity to Iranshah. If proximity is a consideration, how proximal does the Dar-i-Meher have to be? Who sets the distance? Where is it stated? I cannot find any reference to the liturgical ceremonies being performed in the proximity of Iranshah. This is again mumbo-jumbo cooked up by some priests to hoodwink the laity.
As I said at the beginning, anyone has a problem with this, please take it up with Dasturji Modi!
Do ceremonies like Vendidad, Yazashne, Visperad, and Baaj have geographical boundaries limits.?
Dear Behram:
What do you exactly mean by close proximity? Can u specify the exact distance between Iranshah and place where such inner litturgical ceremony can be performed. Pl also indicate the text based source of specified distance.
Next question, suppose the same cremony is held say in Pune, do you mean to say that in distance between Pune and Iranshah there is no druji?
2) Pl also enlighten the reasons, with textural reference:
a) as to why (reason) such ceremonies can be conducted ‘in close proximity’ with Iranshah?
b) Textural reference in support of your belief.
Thanks.
Dear Behram:
What do you exactly mean by close proximity? Can u specify the exact distance between Iranshah and place where such inner litturgical ceremony can be performed. Pl also indicate the text based source of specified distance.
Next question, suppose the same cremony is held say in Pune, do you mean to say that in distance between Pune and Iranshah there is no druji?
2) Pl also enlighten the reasons, with textural reference:
a) as to why (reason) such ceremonies can be conducted ‘in close proximity’ with Iranshah?
b) Textural reference in support of your belief.
Thanks.
Do ceremonies like Vendidad, Yazashne, Visperad, and Baaj have geographical boundaries limits.?
Do ceremonies like Vendidad, Yazashne, Visperad, and Baaj have geographical boundaries limits.?
Well said, Dorab.
Behram,
What you wanted to mention was that the Vendidad is performed at the Agiaries where the Pavmahal place consist of Hindhoras etc are usually there. Try to understand this. This was Vendidad “SADE” means not Pavmahal ni Kriya like we observe in Indian Agiaries , BUT JUst A Recitation of Vendidad Prayers consisting of 22 Pargarads (Chapters) prayed from a Book, without performing any Rituals.
Well said, Dorab.
Well said, Dorab.
Behram,
What you wanted to mention was that the Vendidad is performed at the Agiaries where the Pavmahal place consist of Hindhoras etc are usually there. Try to understand this. This was Vendidad “SADE” means not Pavmahal ni Kriya like we observe in Indian Agiaries , BUT JUst A Recitation of Vendidad Prayers consisting of 22 Pargarads (Chapters) prayed from a Book, without performing any Rituals.
Behram,
What you wanted to mention was that the Vendidad is performed at the Agiaries where the Pavmahal place consist of Hindhoras etc are usually there. Try to understand this. This was Vendidad “SADE” means not Pavmahal ni Kriya like we observe in Indian Agiaries , BUT JUst A Recitation of Vendidad Prayers consisting of 22 Pargarads (Chapters) prayed from a Book, without performing any Rituals.
Dear Meheryar, for once I agree with your source. For my information could you find out if the fire is going to be attended to 24 x 7 ie boi is going to be offered in all five gahs. I hope it is not going to be likethat when behdin comes the fire is lit.
Dear Meheryar, for once I agree with your source. For my information could you find out if the fire is going to be attended to 24 x 7 ie boi is going to be offered in all five gahs. I hope it is not going to be likethat when behdin comes the fire is lit.
Dear Meheryar, for once I agree with your source. For my information could you find out if the fire is going to be attended to 24 x 7 ie boi is going to be offered in all five gahs. I hope it is not going to be likethat when behdin comes the fire is lit.
The theory of distance between Iransha and the place where Vendidad, Yazashne, Visperad etc are conducted as propounded by Behram can be credulous to audience of twenty persons or so, listening to ‘DHARMIK’ lectures in Mehella Patel Agiary. Such persons who have barely completed School education nod their heads in approval for whatever is spoken by feku Scholars.
Such persons of the “Audience’ can be easily identified by their unshaven faces, dirty, stinking Parsee caps and worn out Plastic bags in their hands. Yet they talk about ‘cleanliness being the tenet of our Religion! LOL.
An important issue crops up, if we consider what Behram understands. Implication of it is that all these ceremonies like Venidad,Yazashne, Visperad etc have been spun up bt priestly class after our arrival in India.
An important issue crops up, if we consider what Behram understands. Implication of it is that all these ceremonies like Venidad,Yazashne, Visperad etc have been spun up bt priestly class after our arrival in India.
The theory of distance between Iransha and the place where Vendidad, Yazashne, Visperad etc are conducted as propounded by Behram can be credulous to audience of twenty persons or so, listening to ‘DHARMIK’ lectures in Mehella Patel Agiary. Such persons who have barely completed School education nod their heads in approval for whatever is spoken by feku Scholars.
Such persons of the “Audience’ can be easily identified by their unshaven faces, dirty, stinking Parsee caps and worn out Plastic bags in their hands. Yet they talk about ‘cleanliness being the tenet of our Religion! LOL.
The theory of distance between Iransha and the place where Vendidad, Yazashne, Visperad etc are conducted as propounded by Behram can be credulous to audience of twenty persons or so, listening to ‘DHARMIK’ lectures in Mehella Patel Agiary. Such persons who have barely completed School education nod their heads in approval for whatever is spoken by feku Scholars.
Such persons of the “Audience’ can be easily identified by their unshaven faces, dirty, stinking Parsee caps and worn out Plastic bags in their hands. Yet they talk about ‘cleanliness being the tenet of our Religion! LOL.
Dear Phiroze,
I am elated! You actually agree with a source I quoted. I lit a diva to commemorate this auspicious day! My excitement may be a little premature, because I suspect you will withdraw your agreement after you learn what more I have to say.
Did you agree with me because Dasturji Modi was a highly respected priest and showing disagreement would make you look ridiculous? I have read two books by Ervad Jivanji Jamshedji Modi and in both books he leans heavily on European scholarship. He was a very well read man and relied on the works of James Darmesteter and the Oxford scholar Lawrence Mills to explain the principles of our religion. He frequently draws reference to their vast knowledge to support the whys and whats in our practices. Of course, Martin Haug (“Essays on The Sacred Language, Writings, And Religion of the Parsis”) and James Moulton (“Early Zoroastrianism”; which comprises lectures delivered at Oxford University) are also sources, among many others, that he cites for his understanding of the Zoroastrian religion, including rituals and practices. Wizen up, my friend. European scholars have provided an invaluable service to the Zoroastrian community. Dasturjis Kanga, Dhalla, and Sethna to name a few have all acknowledged the yeoman contributions of the westerner. You resent their scholarship, because if you had your druthers you would rather the Zoroastrian community remain ignorant and ill-informed about the religion as most of the “dhongidoxes” are.
Are you still in agreement?
I don’t know if the Dallas Dar-i-Meher will have the fire going 24/7. My guess is not. Practical considerations will not allow it. The fire will be lit, I would think, during special occasions regardless of who attends.
Dear Phiroze,
I am elated! You actually agree with a source I quoted. I lit a diva to commemorate this auspicious day! My excitement may be a little premature, because I suspect you will withdraw your agreement after you learn what more I have to say.
Did you agree with me because Dasturji Modi was a highly respected priest and showing disagreement would make you look ridiculous? I have read two books by Ervad Jivanji Jamshedji Modi and in both books he leans heavily on European scholarship. He was a very well read man and relied on the works of James Darmesteter and the Oxford scholar Lawrence Mills to explain the principles of our religion. He frequently draws reference to their vast knowledge to support the whys and whats in our practices. Of course, Martin Haug (“Essays on The Sacred Language, Writings, And Religion of the Parsis”) and James Moulton (“Early Zoroastrianism”; which comprises lectures delivered at Oxford University) are also sources, among many others, that he cites for his understanding of the Zoroastrian religion, including rituals and practices. Wizen up, my friend. European scholars have provided an invaluable service to the Zoroastrian community. Dasturjis Kanga, Dhalla, and Sethna to name a few have all acknowledged the yeoman contributions of the westerner. You resent their scholarship, because if you had your druthers you would rather the Zoroastrian community remain ignorant and ill-informed about the religion as most of the “dhongidoxes” are.
Are you still in agreement?
I don’t know if the Dallas Dar-i-Meher will have the fire going 24/7. My guess is not. Practical considerations will not allow it. The fire will be lit, I would think, during special occasions regardless of who attends.
Dear Phiroze,
I am elated! You actually agree with a source I quoted. I lit a diva to commemorate this auspicious day! My excitement may be a little premature, because I suspect you will withdraw your agreement after you learn what more I have to say.
Did you agree with me because Dasturji Modi was a highly respected priest and showing disagreement would make you look ridiculous? I have read two books by Ervad Jivanji Jamshedji Modi and in both books he leans heavily on European scholarship. He was a very well read man and relied on the works of James Darmesteter and the Oxford scholar Lawrence Mills to explain the principles of our religion. He frequently draws reference to their vast knowledge to support the whys and whats in our practices. Of course, Martin Haug (“Essays on The Sacred Language, Writings, And Religion of the Parsis”) and James Moulton (“Early Zoroastrianism”; which comprises lectures delivered at Oxford University) are also sources, among many others, that he cites for his understanding of the Zoroastrian religion, including rituals and practices. Wizen up, my friend. European scholars have provided an invaluable service to the Zoroastrian community. Dasturjis Kanga, Dhalla, and Sethna to name a few have all acknowledged the yeoman contributions of the westerner. You resent their scholarship, because if you had your druthers you would rather the Zoroastrian community remain ignorant and ill-informed about the religion as most of the “dhongidoxes” are.
Are you still in agreement?
I don’t know if the Dallas Dar-i-Meher will have the fire going 24/7. My guess is not. Practical considerations will not allow it. The fire will be lit, I would think, during special occasions regardless of who attends.
Thank you Soli for writing in such detail and plain English all that took place during those 3-4 days. My hats off to the Texas Parsees for bringing all this together. It must have been a lovely occasion to be present at and hopefully one day I will be able to come and pray there.
Thank you Soli for writing in such detail and plain English all that took place during those 3-4 days. My hats off to the Texas Parsees for bringing all this together. It must have been a lovely occasion to be present at and hopefully one day I will be able to come and pray there.
Thank you Soli for writing in such detail and plain English all that took place during those 3-4 days. My hats off to the Texas Parsees for bringing all this together. It must have been a lovely occasion to be present at and hopefully one day I will be able to come and pray there.
@ Dear Meheryar, I agree with what your source says as far as the conduct of the ceremonies is concerned. If he says anything about conversion or acceptance in the Gathas I do not agree with him on those. Even Mary boyce herself has said in one of her essays “The continuity of Zoroastrian Quest” that the western scholars could not and did not have the understanding, resulting out of these scholars ill-founded preconceptions. These misconceptions have done harm to scholarship and the community. So the traditions of the community deserves utmost respect. I agree to this bit too!!!!!!!! You need to wizen up to this fact my dear friend.
@ Dear Meheryar, I agree with what your source says as far as the conduct of the ceremonies is concerned. If he says anything about conversion or acceptance in the Gathas I do not agree with him on those. Even Mary boyce herself has said in one of her essays “The continuity of Zoroastrian Quest” that the western scholars could not and did not have the understanding, resulting out of these scholars ill-founded preconceptions. These misconceptions have done harm to scholarship and the community. So the traditions of the community deserves utmost respect. I agree to this bit too!!!!!!!! You need to wizen up to this fact my dear friend.
@ Dear Meheryar, I agree with what your source says as far as the conduct of the ceremonies is concerned. If he says anything about conversion or acceptance in the Gathas I do not agree with him on those. Even Mary boyce herself has said in one of her essays “The continuity of Zoroastrian Quest” that the western scholars could not and did not have the understanding, resulting out of these scholars ill-founded preconceptions. These misconceptions have done harm to scholarship and the community. So the traditions of the community deserves utmost respect. I agree to this bit too!!!!!!!! You need to wizen up to this fact my dear friend.
Meheryar, What difference does it make to Parsees of Dallas if someone named Phiroze agrees or disagrees. Is he a High Priest?. The end to all arguments with two perpetual boggers is to ignore them
Meheryar, What difference does it make to Parsees of Dallas if someone named Phiroze agrees or disagrees. Is he a High Priest?. The end to all arguments with two perpetual boggers is to ignore them
Meheryar, What difference does it make to Parsees of Dallas if someone named Phiroze agrees or disagrees. Is he a High Priest?. The end to all arguments with two perpetual boggers is to ignore them
Rathestar, makes no difference whatsoever. Even if he is a Low priest, High Priest nobody gives a rat’s touche what he or anyone thinks. We are merrily converting people here, performing navjotes of children of mixed marriages, intermarriages with Zoroastrian prayers and the offspring of Parsi mothers with American or other nationality fathers who freely enter our fire temples when they visit India. BPP, WAPIZ, Fatwa… the Bombay Parsis can have it all. We continue to do our thing here, in Bombay, other parts of India, and all over the world. You are right, people can blog, rant, rave all they want; they are being ignored…throughout the world.
Rathestar, makes no difference whatsoever. Even if he is a Low priest, High Priest nobody gives a rat’s touche what he or anyone thinks. We are merrily converting people here, performing navjotes of children of mixed marriages, intermarriages with Zoroastrian prayers and the offspring of Parsi mothers with American or other nationality fathers who freely enter our fire temples when they visit India. BPP, WAPIZ, Fatwa… the Bombay Parsis can have it all. We continue to do our thing here, in Bombay, other parts of India, and all over the world. You are right, people can blog, rant, rave all they want; they are being ignored…throughout the world.
Rathestar, makes no difference whatsoever. Even if he is a Low priest, High Priest nobody gives a rat’s touche what he or anyone thinks. We are merrily converting people here, performing navjotes of children of mixed marriages, intermarriages with Zoroastrian prayers and the offspring of Parsi mothers with American or other nationality fathers who freely enter our fire temples when they visit India. BPP, WAPIZ, Fatwa… the Bombay Parsis can have it all. We continue to do our thing here, in Bombay, other parts of India, and all over the world. You are right, people can blog, rant, rave all they want; they are being ignored…throughout the world.
It has come to my understanding the the utensils used are from a Agiyari in Bharuch that was forced to shut down. There should at lest be some mention of this, if not a thank you to the Bharuch Parsi community, and some homage unto the fire that was extinguished in that once illustrious town.
To all those who attacked me. The Pav Mahal (Iran Shah) has a special aura that extend over a special geographical region. Now, for a Pav Mahal kriya to reach its full potency it must be performed in that region. the ceremony must connect with the Pav Mahal energy. If one understands how super natural energy takes form on earth they will understand with no hesitation, but for those who always look for answers in books the topic is much more difficult to understand.
For those of you who asked for scriptural evidence, this is a good wake up call. You may not be aware of the fact that the ancient Zoroastrians were conquered twice– and lost many scriptures in the attacks. Such information was contained in the 21 Nasks, the only surviving one is Hadokht Nask (aka the Vendidad).
I am very very sorry if I caused anyone’s blood pressure to go up. Fact is I am only 16, and I was actually just asking a question. As Er. Sanjana clarified only a recitation of the Vendid took place, and no kriya was performed. The Vendida if translated is a book of laws, but it is the energy force that it gives off in which lies its miracle.
Personally, I love the Vendidad it is a beautiful prayer, many a times I sing snippets of it just because it’s so “coolio”. I was convinced of the Vendidad’s power when 3 yrs. ago after my Martab, full verses of the Vendidad would play in my head. Never having memorized the Vendidad or even practicing it to the level where I was fluent with it, it was quite an experience.
So ma homies I love yall, and didnt want to be mean or anything. This my age to ask questions and so to make it clear that’s all I was doing. Thank you Ervad Sanjan for the clarification, and God Bless and fondest love to the rest of you. (muah i wud kiss if i cud ;)
It has come to my understanding the the utensils used are from a Agiyari in Bharuch that was forced to shut down. There should at lest be some mention of this, if not a thank you to the Bharuch Parsi community, and some homage unto the fire that was extinguished in that once illustrious town.
It has come to my understanding the the utensils used are from a Agiyari in Bharuch that was forced to shut down. There should at lest be some mention of this, if not a thank you to the Bharuch Parsi community, and some homage unto the fire that was extinguished in that once illustrious town.
To all those who attacked me. The Pav Mahal (Iran Shah) has a special aura that extend over a special geographical region. Now, for a Pav Mahal kriya to reach its full potency it must be performed in that region. the ceremony must connect with the Pav Mahal energy. If one understands how super natural energy takes form on earth they will understand with no hesitation, but for those who always look for answers in books the topic is much more difficult to understand.
For those of you who asked for scriptural evidence, this is a good wake up call. You may not be aware of the fact that the ancient Zoroastrians were conquered twice– and lost many scriptures in the attacks. Such information was contained in the 21 Nasks, the only surviving one is Hadokht Nask (aka the Vendidad).
I am very very sorry if I caused anyone’s blood pressure to go up. Fact is I am only 16, and I was actually just asking a question. As Er. Sanjana clarified only a recitation of the Vendid took place, and no kriya was performed. The Vendida if translated is a book of laws, but it is the energy force that it gives off in which lies its miracle.
Personally, I love the Vendidad it is a beautiful prayer, many a times I sing snippets of it just because it’s so “coolio”. I was convinced of the Vendidad’s power when 3 yrs. ago after my Martab, full verses of the Vendidad would play in my head. Never having memorized the Vendidad or even practicing it to the level where I was fluent with it, it was quite an experience.
So ma homies I love yall, and didnt want to be mean or anything. This my age to ask questions and so to make it clear that’s all I was doing. Thank you Ervad Sanjan for the clarification, and God Bless and fondest love to the rest of you. (muah i wud kiss if i cud ;)
To all those who attacked me. The Pav Mahal (Iran Shah) has a special aura that extend over a special geographical region. Now, for a Pav Mahal kriya to reach its full potency it must be performed in that region. the ceremony must connect with the Pav Mahal energy. If one understands how super natural energy takes form on earth they will understand with no hesitation, but for those who always look for answers in books the topic is much more difficult to understand.
For those of you who asked for scriptural evidence, this is a good wake up call. You may not be aware of the fact that the ancient Zoroastrians were conquered twice– and lost many scriptures in the attacks. Such information was contained in the 21 Nasks, the only surviving one is Hadokht Nask (aka the Vendidad).
I am very very sorry if I caused anyone’s blood pressure to go up. Fact is I am only 16, and I was actually just asking a question. As Er. Sanjana clarified only a recitation of the Vendid took place, and no kriya was performed. The Vendida if translated is a book of laws, but it is the energy force that it gives off in which lies its miracle.
Personally, I love the Vendidad it is a beautiful prayer, many a times I sing snippets of it just because it’s so “coolio”. I was convinced of the Vendidad’s power when 3 yrs. ago after my Martab, full verses of the Vendidad would play in my head. Never having memorized the Vendidad or even practicing it to the level where I was fluent with it, it was quite an experience.
So ma homies I love yall, and didnt want to be mean or anything. This my age to ask questions and so to make it clear that’s all I was doing. Thank you Ervad Sanjan for the clarification, and God Bless and fondest love to the rest of you. (muah i wud kiss if i cud ;)
An important issue crops up, if we consider what Behram understands. Implication of it is that all these ceremonies like Venidad,Yazashne, Visperad etc have been spun up bt priestly class after our arrival in India.
Dear Phiroze,
I am elated! You actually agree with a source I quoted. I lit a diva to commemorate this auspicious day! My excitement may be a little premature, because I suspect you will withdraw your agreement after you learn what more I have to say.
Did you agree with me because Dasturji Modi was a highly respected priest and showing disagreement would make you look ridiculous? I have read two books by Ervad Jivanji Jamshedji Modi and in both books he leans heavily on European scholarship. He was a very well read man and relied on the works of James Darmesteter and the Oxford scholar Lawrence Mills to explain the principles of our religion. He frequently draws reference to their vast knowledge to support the whys and whats in our practices. Of course, Martin Haug (“Essays on The Sacred Language, Writings, And Religion of the Parsis”) and James Moulton (“Early Zoroastrianism”; which comprises lectures delivered at Oxford University) are also sources, among many others, that he cites for his understanding of the Zoroastrian religion, including rituals and practices. Wizen up, my friend. European scholars have provided an invaluable service to the Zoroastrian community. Dasturjis Kanga, Dhalla, and Sethna to name a few have all acknowledged the yeoman contributions of the westerner. You resent their scholarship, because if you had your druthers you would rather the Zoroastrian community remain ignorant and ill-informed about the religion as most of the “dhongidoxes” are.
Are you still in agreement?
I don’t know if the Dallas Dar-i-Meher will have the fire going 24/7. My guess is not. Practical considerations will not allow it. The fire will be lit, I would think, during special occasions regardless of who attends.